Poor quality of destination displays

[Resuwen]

All round the country buses are being sent out with difficult to read destinatio displays - pixelly, dull and generally cheap looking.

Yet the London spec ones look crisp and clean, even with digital versions looking like a sharp blind.

Are these so prohibitively expensive so as not to be used elsewhere?

A shame, because the technology is clearly there, it would be great to see them more widely.

 

[JKP]

All round the country buses are being sent out with difficult to read destinatio displays - pixelly, dull and generally cheap looking.

Yet the London spec ones look crisp and clean, even with digital versions looking like a sharp blind.

Are these so prohibitively expensive so as not to be used elsewhere?

A shame, because the technology is clearly there, it would be great to see them more widely.

I have no issue with destination blinds locally. What I do have an issue with is operators that only display the ultimate destination. Lothian is a prime example where in a tourist orientated city, a via blind would no doubt be of benefit.

 

[Andyh82]

All round the country buses are being sent out with difficult to read destinatio displays - pixelly, dull and generally cheap looking.

Yet the London spec ones look crisp and clean, even with digital versions looking like a sharp blind.

Are these so prohibitively expensive so as not to be used elsewhere?

A shame, because the technology is clearly there, it would be great to see them more widely.

Do you have any examples because I don’t personally see a massive issue with the orange or white LEDs that most operators use. You might occasionally get one that is partially or fully broken but it’s hardly widespread

They are much clearer than the days of flip dots where they were faded yellow with a poor light shining on it

 

[ChilternTurbo]

I do dislike the trend for operators to display messages other than the route number or destination. I noticed a lot of buses in my area displaying a 'Seasons Greetings' message which alternated between that and the destination. Unfortunately, I did manage to miss my bus as the destination displayed as it was heading off from the stand. I'm not a Grinch by the way, why not just have a vinyl sticker with this message?!

 

[Contains Nuts]

Yes they are expensive. About three or four times the cost of the standard LED signs.

 

[PeterC]

I have no issue with destination blinds locally. What I do have an issue with is operators that only display the ultimate destination. Lothian is a prime example where in a tourist orientated city, a via blind would no doubt be of benefit.

A common problem even in London. It just delays buses when prospective passengers have long discussions with drivers about the route. Never helped by the fact that drivers are often from a depot many miles away and only know the official stop names.

You get the reverse too. My last journey was delayed by a passenger berating the driver because the via point showed a village that the bus had already been through.

 

[PG]

A large number of coach operators seem to think that the displays on their newer vehicles, which are factory fitted so that they comply with the PSVAR, are only there to display the company name.
After all what other possible use is there for them

 

[fgwrich]

Do you have any examples because I don’t personally see a massive issue with the orange or white LEDs that most operators use. You might occasionally get one that is partially or fully broken but it’s hardly widespread

They are much clearer than the days of flip dots where they were faded yellow with a poor light shining on it

I don’t have an issue with the use of white LEDs, but what I do have an issue with is the design of some vehicles where the screens are located. For example, The new Optare solos at Stagecoach seem to be particularly affected largely by the lack of de-mister in the blind box, which in turn almost renders the screen useless when all you can see is a blurry, steamed up mess.

Image from A Down.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Lothian is a prime example where in a tourist orientated city, a via blind would no doubt be of benefit.

Only if you update the blind to remove the via points once you’ve been through them. Which is the big problem with via signs: if you don’t know the city, how do you know if the bus is on its way there or if the bus has already been there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t have an issue with the use of white LEDs, but what I do have an issue with is the design of some vehicles where the screens are located. For example, The new Optare solos at Stagecoach seem to be particularly affected largely by the lack of de-mister in the blind box, which in turn almost renders the screen useless when all you can see is a blurry, steamed up mess.

Image from A Down.

I find orange much easier to read than white myself. There's a reason monochrome computer monitors often used this or green (the latter not legal on a road vehicle for obvious reasons) rather than white - much easier on the eyes.

 

[Russel]

I do dislike the trend for operators to display messages other than the route number or destination. I noticed a lot of buses in my area displaying a 'Seasons Greetings' message which alternated between that and the destination. Unfortunately, I did manage to miss my bus as the destination displayed as it was heading off from the stand. I'm not a Grinch by the way, why not just have a vinyl sticker with this message?!

I mentioned this in the Arriva Midlands thread.

IMO, Given how much effort is put into accessibility these days, adding nonsense such as merry Christmas etc to destination displays really isn't acceptable.

 

[dgl]

I find orange much easier to read than white myself. There's a reason monochrome computer monitors often used this or green (the latter not legal on a road vehicle for obvious reasons) rather than white - much easier on the eyes.

Pretty sure there are green bus displays out there, I'm sure I've seen them on a South West Coaches bus if that's what you are referring to.
Whilst I do see the white displays as being more modern I do like an amber display as it is easier on the eye.
As for what is on the displays our local buses have the destination on top, taking up at least 2/3 if the display with the small bottom section switching between different via points, seems to work well enough.

 

[The exile]

I have no issue with destination blinds locally. What I do have an issue with is operators that only display the ultimate destination. Lothian is a prime example where in a tourist orientated city, a via blind would no doubt be of benefit.

Ironic really, as in the past they displayed far more @via” information than most of the country.

 

[Statto]

I do dislike the trend for operators to display messages other than the route number or destination. I noticed a lot of buses in my area displaying a 'Seasons Greetings' message which alternated between that and the destination. Unfortunately, I did manage to miss my bus as the destination displayed as it was heading off from the stand. I'm not a Grinch by the way, why not just have a vinyl sticker with this message?!

I've mentioned this a few times myself, & agree it's very annoying when operators display scrolling messages like seasonal greetings, bus on diversion ecc, that block the number/destination.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pretty sure there are green bus displays out there, I'm sure I've seen them on a South West Coaches bus if that's what you are referring to.

I've seen them, I've also seen red, but displaying green anywhere on a road vehicle (aside from the very unusual flashing green light a non-emergency-services doctor can display on top) or red anywhere but the rear is a Construction and Use offence. That they haven't been pulled up for it just says a lot about inadequate policing.

 

[PG]

I've seen them, I've also seen red, but displaying green anywhere on a road vehicle (aside from the very unusual flashing green light a non-emergency-services doctor can display on top) or red anywhere but the rear is a Construction and Use offence. That they haven't been pulled up for it just says a lot about inadequate policing.

If it indeed is against CU regs (don't recall and haven't checked so I'll assume you're correct) then equally both the vehicle certifier (if fitted from new) and annual tester should have noticed it.

I don’t have an issue with the use of white LEDs, but what I do have an issue with is the design of some vehicles where the screens are located. For example, The new Optare solos at Stagecoach seem to be particularly affected largely by the lack of de-mister in the blind box, which in turn almost renders the screen useless when all you can see is a blurry, steamed up mess.

Classic case of not thinking about the useage by the designers - with the caveat unless the operator de-speced the bus? I'd have thought that a few slits in the bottom of the destination box would allow a flow of air from the top of the windscreen to solve this, so maybe the operator isn't that bothered!

 

[Russel]

Pretty sure there are green bus displays out there, I'm sure I've seen them on a South West Coaches bus if that's what you are referring to.

I'm sure Western Greyhound had a few buses with green LED displays.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it indeed is against CU regs (don't recall and haven't checked so I'll assume you're correct) then equally both the vehicle certifier (if fitted from new) and annual tester should have noticed it.

That's always been my understanding, and while I don't know the specific piece of legislation this seems to back me up:

https://app.croneri.co.uk/topics/vehicle-lighting-requirements/indepth

Colour​

Generally, all lights and retro reflective materials showing to the front of the vehicle must be white and all those showing to the rear must be red. The general exception is direction indicators and side marker lamps, which must be amber.
A white light may be shown to the rear of a vehicle when it is:

• for the purpose of reversing
• to illuminate the interior of a vehicle
• to illuminate the rear number plate
• to illuminate a taxi meter or public service vehicle destination blind
• when a work lamp is used to illuminate a working area or the scene of an accident, breakdown or roadworks in the vicinity of the vehicle.

Lamps showing other colours may be fitted to vehicles used by the emergency and other services.

I'm not entirely sure why people don't get pulled for them. Perhaps the same reason people don't often get pulled for incorrectly spaced registration plates, i.e. the Police haven't got time.

Thinking on green perhaps is permitted to the front as it is often used for cheap cycle lamps. Definitely not on a rear display though, and red definitely isn't permitted to the front (despite which I have seen it on a bus!)

 

[cactustwirly]

That's always been my understanding, and while I don't know the specific piece of legislation this seems to back me up:

https://app.croneri.co.uk/topics/vehicle-lighting-requirements/indepth

I'm not entirely sure why people don't get pulled for them. Perhaps the same reason people don't often get pulled for incorrectly spaced registration plates, i.e. the Police haven't got time.

The police don't enforce C&U offences, they don't have the resources
There are a lot of cars with blatant offences

 

[Flange Squeal]

I'm sure Western Greyhound had a few buses with green LED displays.

They did indeed and displayed green all round. I expect the South West Coaches vehicle mentioned by a previous poster is probably former Western Greyhound Optare Solo WK11 APU. Central Connect have a number of vehicles in the fleet (and some which have since passed on to other operators) with multi-coloured displays, with green seemingly a regular choice for route numbers along with blue and red.

 

[padbus]

Only if you update the blind to remove the via points once you’ve been through them. Which is the big problem with via signs: if you don’t know the city, how do you know if the bus is on its way there or if the bus has already been there?

As all buses have trackers and so know where they are, surely it should be possible to automatically remove via points once they have been passed. Then you wouldn't have nonsense like NatEx coaches in Exeter showing Birmingham via Truro.

 

[The exile]

As all buses have trackers and so know where they are, surely it should be possible to automatically remove via points once they have been passed. Then you wouldn't have nonsense like NatEx coaches in Exeter showing Birmingham via Truro.

Surely with current trackers the one thing that doesn’t necessarily know where it is is the bus. It’s sending a signal, not necessarily receiving.

 

[Simon75]

I've mentioned this a few times myself, & agree it's very annoying when operators display scrolling messages like seasonal greetings, bus on diversion ecc, that block the number/destination.

What about in Wales with dual language displays?

 

[Contains Nuts]

As all buses have trackers and so know where they are, surely it should be possible to automatically remove via points once they have been passed. Then you wouldn't have nonsense like NatEx coaches in Exeter showing Birmingham via Truro.

Any tracking equipment is unlikely to be connected to the destination display equipment, and would probably not be able to interface with it anyway.

Ticketer ticket machines are able to connect to certain types of destination controller but to configure displays to change mid-route needs the higher-end equipment that costs considerably more than what would usually be fitted to a vehicle. And even then it requires significant configuration to do it.

 

[Observer]

For me my biggest gripe have been those who squeeze as much information on one screen as possible to the point where it's very tiny and unreadable until you are actually close to the bus.

It's just laziness instead of setting up a readable scroll line or multiple pages for via points etc.

Any tracking equipment is unlikely to be connected to the destination display equipment, and would probably not be able to interface with it anyway.

Ticketer ticket machines are able to connect to certain types of destination controller but to configure displays to change mid-route needs the higher-end equipment that costs considerably more than what would usually be fitted to a vehicle. And even then it requires significant configuration to do it.

The higher end equipment you are on about is what some are having to get anyway so they can handle the next stop displays that are being foisted onto operators, drivers and passengers alike.

 

[43055]

As all buses have trackers and so know where they are, surely it should be possible to automatically remove via points once they have been passed. Then you wouldn't have nonsense like NatEx coaches in Exeter showing Birmingham via Truro.

I think it is possible. The new E200 MMCs trentbarton have seem to change the via points as they go along the villager route and I haven't seen the driver touch the controller to change it manually.

 

[dosxuk]

I've seen them, I've also seen red, but displaying green anywhere on a road vehicle (aside from the very unusual flashing green light a non-emergency-services doctor can display on top) or red anywhere but the rear is a Construction and Use offence. That they haven't been pulled up for it just says a lot about inadequate policing.

The only (relevant) stuff about lighting I can find in the legislation - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796 - is:

11.—(1) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp [or retro reflective material] which is capable of showing a red light to the front, except–

And

(2) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp [or retro reflective material] which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except–
(g)in the case of a bus, light for the purposes of illuminating a route indicator;

There doesn't appear to be any restriction for any vehicle to show a green light forwards - only that it must not be red; and any colour can be shown on the rear of a bus as part of a route indicator.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks. I stand corrected - though it does seem to confirm that the front red display I have seen on very rare occasions is in fact not lawful.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Thanks. I stand corrected - though it does seem to confirm that the front red display I have seen on very rare occasions is in fact not lawful.

Displays are not lights so are not covered by lighting regulations

 

[PG]

Surely with current trackers the one thing that doesn’t necessarily know where it is is the bus. It’s sending a signal, not necessarily receiving.

It's nearly ten years since I last did stage carriage work and the ticket machine automatically changed fare stages whilst driving, so the bus definitely knows where it is.