Witness statement receipt

[luke1991]

Good morning, I’m looking for some advice and help with an issue that occurred last night on my train journey.
I was travelling with some friends from Gatwick to Clapham. Me and a friend purchased two tickets individually (off peak railcards 1-6 zones) I have a family and friends rail discount card which I select as network railcard on the self service machines is this is what I thought it was called (genuinely) I applied the discount separately two both cards as they was purchased individually. We was then on the train and a rail inspector checked our tickets which we happily did comply with to then be told that we are travelling with incorrect railcard and that my friends and family railcard can only be used when travelling with a child aged 5-15. I was completely unaware that this is the requirements and did not set off to invade paying full price travel card and I believed what I was doing was correct. I argued the fact and I was unaware and would be happy to buy the ticket again at full cost. I was issued with a gtremg witness statement receipt and advised I will be contacted via post in due course. My friend paid the £65 fine immediately after being issued the penalty.
In hindsight I should have accepted it and moved on and appealed it if I decided to but I genuinely thought I had bought the ticket correctly.
I want some advice on what I’m expected to receive in post and where I stand and best course to take? Can I call up and pay a fine or is this now too late.
I’m very worried and also upset that I haven’t gone out to deliberately invade paying the full fare it was an honest mistake.
Kind regards
Luke

 

[RailsNetwork]

Sounds like your friend was issued a penalty fare notice (£50 + the anytime single from Gatwick to Clapham at £15.60 totaling £65.60).

As for the GTR witness statement you received - your details will be passed on to GTR's prosecutions team where they'll investigate your ticket purchasing history (to see if it's a regular occurrence). You'll receive a letter in the post where they will mention their intent to prosecute and asking for your side of the story.

There are plenty of GTR prosecution letters on this forum which you can read through to get a general idea of what to expect - although no case is ever the same.

 

[Titfield]

Good morning, I’m looking for some advice and help with an issue that occurred last night on my train journey.
I was travelling with some friends from Gatwick to Clapham. Me and a friend purchased two tickets individually (off peak railcards 1-6 zones) I have a family and friends rail discount card which I select as network railcard on the self service machines is this is what I thought it was called (genuinely) I applied the discount separately two both cards as they was purchased individually. We was then on the train and a rail inspector checked our tickets which we happily did comply with to then be told that we are travelling with incorrect railcard and that my friends and family railcard can only be used when travelling with a child aged 5-15. I was completely unaware that this is the requirements and did not set off to invade paying full price travel card and I believed what I was doing was correct. I argued the fact and I was unaware and would be happy to buy the ticket again at full cost. I was issued with a gtremg witness statement receipt and advised I will be contacted via post in due course. My friend paid the £65 fine immediately after being issued the penalty.
In hindsight I should have accepted it and moved on and appealed it if I decided to but I genuinely thought I had bought the ticket correctly.
I want some advice on what I’m expected to receive in post and where I stand and best course to take? Can I call up and pay a fine or is this now too late.
I’m very worried and also upset that I haven’t gone out to deliberately invade paying the full fare it was an honest mistake.
Kind regards
Luke

The outcome of this, after a bit of toing and froing, will probably be the offer of an out of court settlement comprising an admin fee of C£100 - £150 plus the full price of the ticket of £15.60.

Increasingly where the terms and conditions of a railcard are not adhered to (or there is no railcard in possession) we are seeing the issue being referred for investigation so the Train Operating Company can establish if this is a one-off or has occurred before, in which case they seek to recover the fare due for the other occasions when a railcard discount has been wrongly claimed.

The train operating companies take the view that it is the responsibility of the passenger to make sure they abide by the ts and cs. The allowance made for misunderstandings or genuine mistakes etc etc is the on train imposition of a penalty fare which if paid promptly is £50 plus the cost of the correct ticket. Penalty fares can not be issued retrospectively.

 

[pdq]

I bought a new F&F railcard last week. It's stated a number of times at the point of purchase that you have to have a child with you. You even have to tick a specific box to acknowledge this.

Image of F&F terms and conditions:
I accept that the Railcard holder must travel with a child to use Family & Friends discounted tickets*
*Refunds will not be given to customers who report that they bought the Family & Friends Railcard and did not know that they had to travel with a child aged 5-15 to get the discount.

Given the purpose of the card and the clarity of these notices at the point of purchase, I think it may be difficult to to put a persuasive argument together that you were unaware of the conditions; especially as you've then found that you cannot apply the F&F railcard at the machine to a booking that doesn't include a child, so you've selected network railcard instead.

Nevertheless, following the advice from the experts you will hopefully get a satisfactory resolution.

 

[luke1991]

Thanks for the speedy replies all. I selected network railcard at the machine as this is what I believed it was called. When I receive my letter should I give my point across as stated in my opening message? Or should I apologise and ask to settle out of court? Is there a number I can call to ask to settle before I receive the letter that you know of?
Thanks again
Luke

 

[Titfield]

Thanks for the speedy replies all. I selected network railcard at the machine as this is what I believed it was called. When I receive my letter should I give my point across as stated in my opening message? Or should I apologise and ask to settle out of court? Is there a number I can call to ask to settle before I receive the letter that you know of?
Thanks again
Luke

You should apologise and confirm that you will ensure you use the railcard correctly going forward. If you search for some of the advice given by @Hadders in this forum this will give you the key points to mention in your reply.

In my opinion there is no point in trying to explain your misunderstanding as they will not be interested in this.

Communication about matters such as this is by email or hard copy letter only.

 

[luke1991]

You should apologise and confirm that you will ensure you use the railcard correctly going forward. If you search for some of the advice given by @Hadders in this forum this will give you the key points to mention in your reply.

In my opinion there is no point in trying to explain your misunderstanding as they will not be interested in this.

Communication about matters such as this is by email or hard copy letter only.

Thank you

 

[Haywain]

I selected network railcard at the machine as this is what I believed it was called.

Considering it carries the words "Family & Friends Railcard" prominently on the top of both the physical and digital railcards, it's difficult to understand how you could have thought this. As far as I can tell, the word "Network" doesn't appear anywhere on a F&F Railcard.

In my opinion there is no point in trying to explain your misunderstanding as they will not be interested in this.

I don't think they would find it credible.

 

[furlong]

The machine would have forced you to buy at least one child ticket if attempting to use the Family & Friends railcard.
As you didn't want any child tickets, is that why you selected the Network Railcard instead?

 

[luke1991]

The machine would have forced you to buy at least one child ticket if attempting to use the Family & Friends railcard.
As you didn't want any child tickets, is that why you selected the Network Railcard instead?

No my card is in an app on my phone. I was shared to join it through a group chat August last year so I bought a membership. They shared the network railcard. I mistakenly bought the family and friends that’s why there is the confusion also. I’ve just traced back to what was shared in the group chat So all along I thought it was network railcard when actually it was family and friends. I’m not a frequent train user so not familiar with the amount of railcards on the market. Like I said it’s an honest mistake I didn’t think I was committing any offence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2025 ==

I appreciate your help and helping me understand. Going forward I will avoid the discount cards on the market as it can been confusing and I don’t wish to be in this situation again.

 

[WesternLancer]

Communication about matters such as this is by email or hard copy letter only.

If GTR it will be hard copy post only - esp at the initial stage.

OP should watch out for postal communication which it is vital to respond to to avoid prosecution

 

[luke1991]

If GTR it will be hard copy post only - esp at the initial stage.

OP should watch out for postal communication which it is vital to respond to to avoid prosecution

Thanks I will keep an eye on the post

Thanks I will keep an eye on the post.
Apologies but what does OP stand for.
Also it was on a Thameslink train from Gatwick to Clapham.
Kind regards

 

[WesternLancer]

In hindsight I should have accepted it and moved on and appealed it if I decided to but I genuinely thought I had bought the ticket correctly.
I want some advice on what I’m expected to receive in post and where I stand and best course to take? Can I call up and pay a fine or is this now too late.
I’m very worried and also upset that I haven’t gone out to deliberately invade paying the full fare it was an honest mistake.
Kind regards
Luke

Yes, sadly accepting the Penalty Fare and paying it then or later on whilst it is 50% discounted (within 21 days) is almost always the best option if you are given the choice (does not always happen anyway and happens less with Railcard issues too - as they want to investigate how often you may have done things like this and only the back office can carry out that investigation).

Penalty Fares come with a right of appeal, and a prompt payment discount. Every other option, apart from being let off by a sympathetic member of staff, costs more and is more time consuming for you to resolve, and potentially is on a pathway to a court prosecution (which you can avoid with advice from here) I'm afraid.

So when you hear from them head back here for the specific advice on how to get the least worst outcome from the situation as it now is.

I assume they took a correct name and postal address for you as it is vital you get what they will send you and that you respond to it - as the investigation process is the start of an escalator to persecution if you ignore it. Also check your e-mail and spam just in case for some reason they communicate with you that way.

Finally I would say Railcards are a very good way of discounting your tickets (I have 2 different ones for different travel scenarios) but you do need to check the basic terms of use. Unfortunately they can have confusingly different conditions of use between cards so trying to get a 'workaround' by seeking to get online sites to sell you something by setting up the wrong Railcard is a recipe for a problem, as you have found. But now you have your Railcard I'd make the most of it whilst it is valid.

 

[Haywain]

I was shared to join it through a group chat August last year so I bought a membership. They shared the network railcard. I mistakenly bought the family and friends that’s why there is the confusion also. I’ve just traced back to what was shared in the group chat So all along I thought it was network railcard when actually it was family and friends.

So, not only caught using the wrong railcard but you will have a history of using a railcard you didn't own. This could get worse for you.

 

[pdq]

luke1991 said:
... I bought a membership. They shared the network railcard. I mistakenly bought the family and friends

So, not only caught using the wrong railcard but you will have a history of using a railcard you didn't own. This could get worse for you.

Can the OP confirm if they had in fact purchased a digital railcard of whatever flavour, or else confirm what they mean by 'bought a membership'? Was an actual network railcard shared somehow, or was it just a link to a website where it can be purchased? Does the OP have children eligible for tickets under the F&F scheme?

 

[luke1991]

Yes, sadly accepting the Penalty Fare and paying it then or later on whilst it is 50% discounted (within 21 days) is almost always the best option if you are given the choice (does not always happen anyway and happens less with Railcard issues too - as they want to investigate how often you may have done things like this and only the back office can carry out that investigation).

Penalty Fares come with a right of appeal, and a prompt payment discount. Every other option, apart from being let off by a sympathetic member of staff, costs more and is more time consuming for you to resolve, and potentially is on a pathway to a court prosecution (which you can avoid with advice from here) I'm afraid.

So when you hear from them head back here for the specific advice on how to get the least worst outcome from the situation as it now is.

I assume they took a correct name and postal address for you as it is vital you get what they will send you and that you respond to it - as the investigation process is the start of an escalator to persecution if you ignore it. Also check your e-mail and spam just in case for some reason they communicate with you that way.

Finally I would say Railcards are a very good way of discounting your tickets (I have 2 different ones for different travel scenarios) but you do need to check the basic terms of use. Unfortunately they can have confusingly different conditions of use between cards so trying to get a 'workaround' by seeking to get online sites to sell you something by setting up the wrong Railcard is a recipe for a problem, as you have found. But now you have your Railcard I'd make the most of it whilst it is valid.

Thank you for your help and advice. Yes I believe so I input the info for them. How

So, not only caught using the wrong railcard but you will have a history of using a railcard you didn't own. This could get worse for you.

I’ve made a genuinely honest mistake. When common sense doesn’t prevail. It’s a shame as all I try and do is the right thing. I guess it will be a tough lesson to learn.

Can the OP confirm if they had in fact purchased a digital railcard of whatever flavour, or else confirm what they mean by 'bought a membership'? Was an actual network railcard shared somehow, or was it just a link to a website where it can be purchased? Does the OP have children eligible for tickets under the F&F scheme?

it was link to the website and yes two children that fit the age group for the friends and family railcard.

 

[notmyrealname]

Could you link us to the website please?

 

[luke1991]

Could you link us to the website please?

Sorry unfortunately I no longer have the link.

 

[jfollows]

Thanks I will keep an eye on the post.
Apologies but what does OP stand for.
Also it was on a Thameslink train from Gatwick to Clapham.
Kind regards

OP = Original Poster = you

 

[luke1991]

Hi all I have now received a letter from Thames link regarding the issue above. (My original post) As I said in my post it was a genuine honest mistake. I had maybe used network railcard as a discount less than a handful of times while only having a friends and family discount card I honestly assumed it was named different in the app. All my purchases were made at self service machines. What step should I take now, I’m kicking myself for not going to a ticket office and purchasing as I would have found out straight away I was using it incorrectly. I’m annoyed also as my ticket was checked before on a previous journey.
Thanks again all.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all I have now received a letter from Thames link regarding the issue above. (My original post) As I said in my post it was a genuine honest mistake. I had maybe used network railcard as a discount less than a handful of times while only having a friends and family discount card I honestly assumed it was named different in the app. All my purchases were made at self service machines. What step should I take now, I’m kicking myself for not going to a ticket office and purchasing as I would have found out straight away I was using it incorrectly. I’m annoyed also as my ticket was checked before on a previous journey.
Thanks again all.

see post #6 for what you should do to reply. Post a draft up here of your reply if you would like it checking.