Amazon to use rail?

[AndrewE]

In https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/14/amazon-uk-electric-trucks-carbon-emissions-train we see (after the report of major electric truck investment)

The move comes as Amazon begins its first large-scale deliveries by train. Containers of products from its warehouses will be loaded on to cargo trains on the fully electric west coast mainline between Scotland and the Midlands for pick-up from stations close to local Amazon delivery and fulfilment centres or ferry ports.
The scheme will enable 20m products a year to be transported by train. Amazon previously only transported a small number of packages via train using carts loaded on to passenger trains.

How much of this is just greenwash? (and ignoring the fact that almost all freight is now diesel-hauled under the wires!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this one of those companies using converted Class 319 EMUs?

 

[NIT100]

A little bit of research shows Amazon have taken Plot 7 at the new SEGRO logistics park in Northampton (south of Northampton on the loop line, with new rail freight terminal).

There are a few websites to claim to list the location of all UK Amazon Fulfilment centres, not really sure what they could mean by pick-up from local statins close to Amazon facilities. Remains to be seen if this will be delivery to Northampton from ports, or onward to Scotland (presumably Mossend or Coatbridge) and if it will be containerised or not. There is a small Amazon warehouse in Euro central. Major fulfilment centres in Scotland are Gourock and Dunfermline, neither are close to rail lines.

The only existing ones that are currently rail connected are the 3 warehouses at iPort in Doncaster.

Amazon have increased rail use in Europe in the last few years, however still makes up a small proportion of overall goods movements, matter of opinion if it is greenwashing or not (I am no great admirer of Amazon) .

 

[Speed43125]

This article on The Loadstar states the following:

Amazon goes large with electric trucks order to aid UK decarbonisation - The Loadstar

Amazon has placed the UK’s largest order of electric trucks and will provide UK rail deliveries “at scale”.

theloadstar.com

Additionally, Amazon has promised rail deliveries “at scale”.

It told customers that products will be shipped on train carriages on the UK’s fully electric West Coast Main Line, which runs between Scotland and the Midlands.

Products are then picked up from stations close to local Amazon delivery and fulfilment centres.

To further reduce on-road traffic and give SME UK businesses “easier access to European markets”, products are also transported from stations to ferry ports.

The Scottish Coatbridge rail terminal was acquired last April by transport and logistics provider for the UK and Europe, Russel Group, allowing it to trade under Russell RailRoad Limited.

Russell’s rail-linked sites include Daventry – Edinburgh – Glasgow – Coatbridge – Inverness -Aberdeen, so it is likely that Amazon will have agreed a minimum quantity commitment with the group to serve Scottish customers – The Loadstar has asked Russel Group for confirmation but has yet to hear back.

Amazon said it expects upwards of 20m of its products to travel on the UK’s electric rail network this year, “avoiding traffic congestion and carbon emissions”.

The ecommerce giant also teased plans to expand across further rail routes “before the end of the year”.

It's interesting that they speculate that Coatbridge might be the relevant terminal.

I note that the Amazon website shows an image of a DRS Class 88 pulling an intermodal train for this statement, so my money is on this being a containerised exercise with transshipment between fulfilment centres and railheads.

Ultimately this is a side note in a PR statement about buying Mercedes (and a few Volvo) battery electric HGVs. There don't appear to many publicly available details at all yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I see the Sectional Appendix (Dec 2024) for LNW South has the Northampton Gateway Freight Terminal site "under construction".
It is at MD105/001* in this:https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs December 24/London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix December 2024.pdf
There are new junctions south (Courteenhall Jn) and north (Collingtree Road Jn) of the site to provide access.

* page updated 6/8/24.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I see the Sectional Appendix (Dec 2024) for LNW South has the Northampton Gateway Freight Terminal site "under construction".
It is at MD105/001* in this:https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs December 24/London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix December 2024.pdf
There are new junctions south (Courteenhall Jn) and north (Collingtree Road Jn) of the site to provide access.

* page updated 6/8/24.

I believe that here was a condition (unsuccessfully challenged) that operation of the terminal could not take place until the rail infrastructure was operational. It might even have been that warehouse construction could not start before then, and from observation the latter does seem to be the case.
The rumour in the immediate area has been that it's an 'Amazon warehouse' for a while; reinforced by the very extensive road improvements in the area suggesting there's going to be a lot of road traffic - possibly 'Sprinter' type vans.

 

[The Planner]

I see the Sectional Appendix (Dec 2024) for LNW South has the Northampton Gateway Freight Terminal site "under construction".
It is at MD105/001* in this:https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs December 24/London North Western (South) Sectional Appendix December 2024.pdf
There are new junctions south (Courteenhall Jn) and north (Collingtree Road Jn) of the site to provide access.

* page updated 6/8/24.

Properly opens at Easter. Clearly something changed on the conditions front as it was meant to be rail connected ages ago.

 

[Snow1964]

Amazon's new warehouse distribution centre in Poole is adjacent to the railway (Holes Bay, just west of former junction with line to Broadstone ). The rail line is electrified.

Fairly sure the Swansea Distribution centre has a rail line running past back of it too (but not electrified)

Not sure how close other centres are to rail lines

Not sure of the practicalities of a cart unloading platform (either on running line or loop, depending on train frequency) and conveyors running into the adjacent warehouse.

 

[anthony263]

A little bit of research shows Amazon have taken Plot 7 at the new SEGRO logistics park in Northampton (south of Northampton on the loop line, with new rail freight terminal).

There are a few websites to claim to list the location of all UK Amazon Fulfilment centres, not really sure what they could mean by pick-up from local statins close to Amazon facilities. Remains to be seen if this will be delivery to Northampton from ports, or onward to Scotland (presumably Mossend or Coatbridge) and if it will be containerised or not. There is a small Amazon warehouse in Euro central. Major fulfilment centres in Scotland are Gourock and Dunfermline, neither are close to rail lines.

The only existing ones that are currently rail connected are the 3 warehouses at iPort in Doncaster.

Amazon have increased rail use in Europe in the last few years, however still makes up a small proportion of overall goods movements, matter of opinion if it is greenwashing or not (I am no great admirer of Amazon) .

The amazon warehouse at Kenfig industrial estate is very close to the Tondu to Margam line opportunity there not sure if a railink could be put alongside the warehouse/hub in Swansea

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==

Amazon's new warehouse distribution centre in Poole is adjacent to the railway (Holes Bay, just west of former junction with line to Broadstone ). The rail line is electrified.

Fairly sure the Swansea Distribution centre has a rail line running past back of it too (but not electrified)

Not sure how close other centres are to rail lines

Not sure of the practicalities of a cart unloading platform (either on running line or loop, depending on train frequency) and conveyors running into the adjacent warehouse.

I agree about the Swansea one. The one at Kenfig industrial estate Is right next to the Tondu to Margam line.

I've attached a screenshot from google maps showing how close the Amazon warehouse in Kenfig industrial estate is to the line

 

[tiptoptaff]

The amazon warehouse at Kenfig industrial estate is very close to the Tondu to Margam line opportunity there not sure if a railink could be put alongside the warehouse/hub in Swansea

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==


I agree about the Swansea one. The one at Kenfig industrial estate Is right next to the Tondu to Margam line.

I've attached a screenshot from google maps showing how close the Amazon warehouse in Kenfig industrial estate is to the line

What the map doesn't tell you is that is a sweeping curve at the bottom of Stormy Bank and set some height above Kenfig industrial estate

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==

What the map doesn't tell you is that is a sweeping curve at the bottom of Stormy Bank and set some height above Kenfig industrial estate

Correction, the SWML is to the south of the industrial estate.

The line pictured is the OOU OVE line.

 

[DBS92042]

I believe that here was a condition (unsuccessfully challenged) that operation of the terminal could not take place until the rail infrastructure was operational. It might even have been that warehouse construction could not start before then, and from observation the latter does seem to be the case.
The rumour in the immediate area has been that it's an 'Amazon warehouse' for a while; reinforced by the very extensive road improvements in the area suggesting there's going to be a lot of road traffic - possibly 'Sprinter' type vans.

That was indeed the case re them unable to start construction on the warehouse buildings until the rail connection had been established (which IIRC eventually happened in September 2023? or possibly early 2024). As far as I know the large warehouse is indeed Amazon as well

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a huge Amazon fulfilment centre right alongside the Marston Vale line at Ridgmont (and also next to the M1).
But no rail connection.

 

[anthony263]

What the map doesn't tell you is that is a sweeping curve at the bottom of Stormy Bank and set some height above Kenfig industrial estate

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==


Correction, the SWML is to the south of the industrial estate.

The line pictured is the OOU OVE line.

It was the OVE line i was thinking of

 

[Magdalia]

There's a huge Amazon fulfilment centre right alongside the Marston Vale line at Ridgmont (and also next to the M1).
But no rail connection.

I am interested in this in the context of the East West Rail consultation.

Looking at the Ordnance Survey there are at least ten big rectangular buildings close to the M1/A421 junction, a bit north of the current Ridgmont station.

Can you be more precise on location please, a grid reference or a postcode?

 

[Merle Haggard]

It seems, from attempts to build warehousing on the opposite side of the line to the new Northampton one (which will adversely affect me personally), that application for a road served warehouse is very likely to be rejected by the local planners for various good reasons. If, however, the application then adds in a rail siding everything changes; it becomes a rail served warehouse and that's 'National Infrastructure' where, it seems, local objections are ignored snd permission is automatically given. It also gives the right for the developers to compulsorily purchase the land they require.
The foregoing is my understanding of the situation for the planned rail freight terminal on the opposite side of the line but I am open to correction. Of course, I am not expressing any opinions about whether the same considerations applied to the newly-built one. There are good arguments that rail developments should not be hampered by what's regarded as NIMBYs.
However, when the new one opens I do wonder what proportion of inbound traffic will arrive by rail versus by road, particularly as the Northampton passenger service level has always been said to be restricted by 'lack of paths' on the New Line.

 

[pitdiver]

I am interested in this in the context of the East West Rail consultation.

Looking at the Ordnance Survey there are at least ten big rectangular buildings close to the M1/A421 junction, a bit north of the current Ridgmont station.

Can you be more precise on location please, a grid reference or a postcode?

Enter Amazon UK LTN 1 into Google maps

 

[Magdalia]

If, however, the application then adds in a rail siding everything changes; it becomes a rail served warehouse and that's 'National Infrastructure'

I am not an expert on planning, though I have followed closely the planning processes for various new buildings locally, plus Cambridge South station and East West Rail. Most new buildings go through local planning but not Cambridge South station or East West Rail.

Cambridge South station went through the Transport and Works Act process, with rounds of informal and formal consultation followed by a formal inquiry by a planning inspector. It was not a National infrastructure project.

National infrastructure goes through the Development Control Order process, and I'm not clear what significant differences this has compared with the Transport and Works Act, apart from it having wider application than just transport. East West Rail is National infrastructure and will go through the Development Control Order process.

local objections are ignored snd permission is automatically given

But in both cases neither of these statements are correct. Local objections are considered as part of the consultation processes, and local councils and other interested parties can make formal objections at the inquiry stage.

Enter Amazon UK LTN 1 into Google maps

But I don't wish to enter either of those names, I want to find it by entering a grid reference or a postcode.

 

[The Planner]

However, when the new one opens I do wonder what proportion of inbound traffic will arrive by rail versus by road, particularly as the Northampton passenger service level has always been said to be restricted by 'lack of paths' on the New Line.

I am not convinced it will have a huge amount, but don't assume that the paths will be put in all day. You will find space at the fringes of the day.

 

[LowLevel]

But I don't wish to enter either of those names, I want to find it by entering a grid reference or a postcode.

How bizarre to not want to use something that will answer your question . Well, by entering that name you don't wish to enter and cross checking with Amazon's recruitment website, it's Marston Gate Distribution Centre and it's postcode is MK43 0ZA and it's grid reference is SP966376.

 

[Magdalia]

How bizarre to not want to use something that will answer your question . Well, by entering that name you don't wish to enter and cross checking with Amazon's recruitment website, it's Marston Gate Distribution Centre and it's postcode is MK43 0ZA and it's grid reference is SP966376.

Thanks that's very helpful. It is a very big building, and almost adjacent to the railway.

I have the Ordnance Survey Map 2007 reprint and that building is already on the map.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks that's very helpful. It is a very big building, and almost adjacent to the railway.
I have the Ordnance Survey Map 2007 reprint and that building is already on the map.

The Amazon site at Ridgmont was built on the site of a large disused rail-served brickworks.
I think it was one of the first Amazon fulfilment centres in the UK.
The station will at least be convenient for the workforce.

 

[Merle Haggard]

/snip/



But in both cases neither of these statements are correct. Local objections are considered as part of the consultation processes, and local councils and other interested parties can make formal objections at the inquiry stage.


/snip/

Interesting, thanks.

Making an on-line enquiry about the planning process for the terminal that's being built gives 'National Infrastructure ---- gov.uk and on that page the development is recorded as 'Strategic Railfreight Interchange'. I was given the impression that this description - similarly for the one that affects me directly - meant that objections were much more difficult to make and most likely to be over-ruled, but you imply that this is not the case. Do you happen to know what the purpose of this specific ('National Infrastructure') classification if not to make overcoming planning objections easier? My understanding was that an application seems to have been for a road distribution depot, and this was rejected, but the applicants returned with a rail connection added and this change made objections less valid. But that's only what I've been told or read.

We were also told that, once planning permission had been obtained by the applicant, they would then be entitled to purchase compulsorily (at a price from a formula, not reflecting the cost of replacement elsewhere, upheaval etc.) the land they did not own but covered by the application. I would be surprised if that option is also usual for standard planning applications (i.e. make a planning application on land you don't own and, if successful, you're then entitled to purchase it compulsorily) - does it only apply to 'National Infrastructure'?

I certainly remember that when RfD was developing International Railfreight terminals in advance of the opening of the Channel Tunnel there was scepticism about the motives of road haulage/distribution companies wishing to enter partnership. A planning application for a road haulage depot is very likely to be met with strong opposition, but the new rail terminals seemed to only involve consultation. As it happened these doubts may have been unfounded, DIRFT was a great success for rail, perhaps not so much (amongst others) Doncaster and Wakefield.

 

[sh24]

The main possible use in Amazon's network is going to be Fulfilment Centre (the huge warehouses) to DC (the local warehouses where lots of Sprinter vans do final mile). Given their normal customer service lead-times I can only really see this working for Anglo Scottish flows. Rail will be too slow and infrequent for shorter moves.

 

[Magdalia]

Do you happen to know what the purpose of this specific ('National Infrastructure') classification if not to make overcoming planning objections easier?

National Infrastructure does change the role of the local authority. In a local planning application it is a committee of local councillors that grant or deny approval for planning applications, following the advice of their officers. In a Development Control Order or a Transport and Works Act order it is the Secretary of State that grants or denies approval following the advice of the planning inspector that conducted the inquiry. The best analogy I can think of is sporting, for National Infrastructure the local authority is a player not the referee.

The main possible use in Amazon's network is going to be Fulfilment Centre (the huge warehouses) to DC (the local warehouses where lots of Sprinter vans do final mile).

The thing that struck me, in the East West Rail context, was the possibility of rail movement between Felixstowe or Southampton and Ridgmont. Most of the stuff in that huge warehouse must be coming into Felixstowe or Southampton on container ships from the Far East.

 

[Bald Rick]

The main possible use in Amazon's network is going to be Fulfilment Centre (the huge warehouses) to DC (the local warehouses where lots of Sprinter vans do final mile). Given their normal customer service lead-times I can only really see this working for Anglo Scottish flows. Rail will be too slow and infrequent for shorter moves.

Agreed. The Amazon logisitcs network is a very well oiled machine; I’ve mentioned on these pages previosuly that Amazon took the UK model and rolled it out back in the states when they saw how efficient it was. To splice rail borne carrying in to the system suggests some very specific, high volume flows.

The thing that struck me, in the East West Rail context, was the possibility of rail movement between Felixstowe or Southampton and Ridgmont. Most of the stuff in that huge warehouse must be coming into Felixstowe or Southampton on container ships from the Far East.

Kind of. Whilst much of the stuff will be landed at Felixstowe / Gateway / Southampton, some of it will be sent in boxes to Daventry or (in future) Northampton by train, and then roaded back to LTN1. Whilst I don’t know, I‘d be surprised if there was sufficient volume to justify a regular daily dedicated service from any one of these ports to Ridgmont.

Incidentally a not insignificant % of Amazon products is landed in this country at East Mids airport and Heathrow. High value stuff which isnt suited to rail anyway.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

There's a huge Amazon fulfilment centre right alongside the Marston Vale line at Ridgmont (and also next to the M1).
But no rail connection.

Pretty handy if they get a rail connection installed, with access to East West Rail in the distant future?

 

[AndrewE]

Pretty handy if they get a rail connection installed, with access to East West Rail in the distant future?

but nowadays rail is hopeless at wagonload traffic, and you have to look for trainload flows... and find suitable rolling stock. A tri-mode parcels/ York cage unit would be good but I can't see the private sector putting up the money to develop one, even if the money could be found to to put sidings in to regional hubs or "rent" platform/line space at passenger stations. ex-GPO facilities at places like Stafford and Preston, maybe?

 

[sh24]

Agreed. The Amazon logisitcs network is a very well oiled machine; I’ve mentioned on these pages previosuly that Amazon took the UK model and rolled it out back in the states when they saw how efficient it was. To splice rail borne carrying in to the system suggests some very specific, high volume flows.




Kind of. Whilst much of the stuff will be landed at Felixstowe / Gateway / Southampton, some of it will be sent in boxes to Daventry or (in future) Northampton by train, and then roaded back to LTN1. Whilst I don’t know, I‘d be surprised if there was sufficient volume to justify a regular daily dedicated service from any one of these ports to Ridgmont.

Incidentally a not insignificant % of Amazon products is landed in this country at East Mids airport and Heathrow. High value stuff which isnt suited to rail anyway

Agree - I don’t see a dedicated port to FC train working. Space on a shared user train might work however. A significant proportion of inbounds to Amazon also come from 3rd party sellers who typically have warehousing in the UK and don’t deliver direct from port.

 

[Merle Haggard]

National Infrastructure does change the role of the local authority. In a local planning application it is a committee of local councillors that grant or deny approval for planning applications, following the advice of their officers. In a Development Control Order or a Transport and Works Act order it is the Secretary of State that grants or denies approval following the advice of the planning inspector that conducted the inquiry. The best analogy I can think of is sporting, for National Infrastructure the local authority is a player not the referee.

// snip to save space

Thanks for the explanation; but it seems to re-inforce my experience that local objections have little weight in considerations. The benefit of converting to 'National Infrastructure' by promising to lay a railway siding.

Still puzzled why planning approval gives right to compulsory purchase; or does this also apply local planning application?

 

[Bald Rick]

Still puzzled why planning approval gives right to compulsory purchase

It doesn’t. However it is a parallel proceess, with similar approvals. Planning consent is approved, and separately (but concurrently) powers of compulsory purchase are granted.