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Foreign language announcements on Continental European trains?

rvdborgt

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oddly enough, Belgium outside Brussels you cannot expect that. In Flanders it is Flemish only, in Wallonia French only.
As a minimum, the language(s) of the region must be used. So either Dutch, Dutch and French, French, or German depending on the region. In municipalities with language facilities, the second language must also be used. AFAIK, extra languages are possible but then you need to use all national languages (equal treatment!) and only after that, a non-national language (such as English) can be used. On (most) international long-distance trains and trains to Brussels Airport announcements are in 4 languages. But there's also at least one guard from Ostend who consistently does 4-language announcements on the train to Eupen. Knowledge of German is not very widespread in Belgium, so I guess that's a limiting factor.
 
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duncombec

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I always appreciated the fact there were German and English announcements on Deutsche Bahn services, albeit often truncated to the very major connections, or the infamous "senk ju vor träwelling viz Deutsche Bahn und goodbye" - it's been a while, but I can't imagine us providing announcements in foreign languages at Gatwick Airport (although do they still do the multi-lingual versions at Marylebone for Bicester Village?).

That said, the English was sometimes a little... ropey (or what felt like it). It was only many years later (possibly watching Michael Portillo) when I realised the use of "track" rather than Platform is an American usage, rather than a direct translation from German (which uses Gleis = track rather than Bahnsteig = platform). Translating "Hauptbahnhof" as "Main Station" also used to drive me nuts - especially somewhere like Hamburg (which has three "main" stations, only one of which is the Hauptbahnhof) or Berlin, which has... quite a few. They never translated Berlin Zoological Garden, or Kassel-Williamshigh, or Flensburg Points...
 

DanielB

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Translating "Hauptbahnhof" as "Main Station" also used to drive me nuts - especially somewhere like Hamburg (which has three "main" stations, only one of which is the Hauptbahnhof) or Berlin, which has... quite a few. They never translated Berlin Zoological Garden, or Kassel-Williamshigh, or Flensburg Points...
Well, NS is doing that already. Didn't hear the English version, but last weekend I did notice an announcement with "Berlijn Centraal Station" and "Berlijn Ooststation". And think I shared the announcement of "Cologne Trade Fair/Deutz" earlier in this topic.
 

riceuten

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oddly enough, Belgium outside Brussels you cannot expect that. In Flanders it is Flemish only, in Wallonia French only.
There's a complex arrangement of automatic announcements on the trains from Cologne to Brussels- certainly within Belgium - French only from the German border(Welkenraedt), to Liege, Dutch only from there to Leuven, French and Dutch from the Brussels border
 

The exile

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There's a complex arrangement of automatic announcements on the trains from Cologne to Brussels- certainly within Belgium - French only from the German border(Welkenraedt), to Liege, Dutch only from there to Leuven, French and Dutch from the Brussels border
Used to be the same on the Oostende - Eupen ICs, can’t imagine that it’s changed. Only ever did the Eupen - Welkenraedt bit once, so don’t know if it did German as well, but can’t see why not!
 

rvdborgt

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Used to be the same on the Oostende - Eupen ICs, can’t imagine that it’s changed. Only ever did the Eupen - Welkenraedt bit once, so don’t know if it did German as well, but can’t see why not!
Any announcement between Welkenraedt and Eupen must start with German.
There's a complex arrangement of automatic announcements on the trains from Cologne to Brussels- certainly within Belgium - French only from the German border(Welkenraedt), to Liege, Dutch only from there to Leuven, French and Dutch from the Brussels border
The ICEs Cologne-Brussels have 4-language announcements, only the order of the languages changes. Eurostar also used to have that, but I haven't used them recently on that route since I can normally avoid them.
 

The exile

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Translating "Hauptbahnhof" as "Main Station" also used to drive me nuts - especially somewhere like Hamburg (which has three "main" stations, only one of which is the Hauptbahnhof) or Berlin, which has... quite a few.
IT is however completely correct and the problem is caused by the fact that Britain’s railways never came up with an equivalent so there is no natural sounding translation. The “Hamburg” in front of Altona and Hamburg (or for that matter Bergedorf) is not saying “this is a principal station for Hamburg” (as UK practice would lead one to expect) but “this area is part of the City of Hamburg”. See all the suburban stations in the Rhein/Ruhr area - (almost) all prefixed with the name of the municipality they are part of.
 

D6130

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I think the nearest British equivalent of 'Hauptbahnhof' would be 'Central', 'City' or -in the case of Farnborough - 'Main'....although the latter is a very recent addition to the station's name. I suppose the Great Western equivalent - they always had to be different - would have been 'General' , as in Cardiff, Reading, Wrexham, etc.
 

duncombec

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IT is however completely correct and the problem is caused by the fact that Britain’s railways never came up with an equivalent so there is no natural sounding translation. The “Hamburg” in front of Altona and Hamburg (or for that matter Bergedorf) is not saying “this is a principal station for Hamburg” (as UK practice would lead one to expect) but “this area is part of the City of Hamburg”. See all the suburban stations in the Rhein/Ruhr area - (almost) all prefixed with the name of the municipality they are part of.
It's correct as a literal, direct translation, but literal translations are rarely helpful - and the point I was making was that (from a translation industry perspective), there is no real reason to translate it alone, as you'd just keep it as a proper name, as with the examples I gave.*

Yes, it does show the municipality, but unlike many of those in the Rhein/Ruhr area, or the Flensburg example I gave, the situation with Hamburg (and Berlin, and possibly Munich) is rather different, in that there are multiple "sizeable" stations that may be the "main" (principal) one from your direction, in much the style as, say Manchester Piccadilly/Victoria. If coming from Westerland, for example, your Hamburg "main" (principal) station is Altona (which I think has 14 platforms... if that's not "main", what is?!). From the south, it may be Harburg (Bergedorf is reasonably small by comparison). Really, in Hamburg's case, or Berlin's, it's trying to differentiate between the "main main" station and the "other main" stations! It's very different to say, Kiel, where Kiel Hauptbahnhof is undoubtedly the main station in town, and Kiel-Hassee/Citti-Park or Kiel-Elmschenhagen are tiny unstaffed affairs.

Interestingly, the city of Hamburg's own website doesn't translate it either, merely using "main" as an adjective, translating it on first mention as "Central", which, in Hamburg terms, it is! https://www.hamburg.com/visitors/getting-here
Hamburg Hauptbahnhof (central railway station) with its impressive hall, eateries and shops attracts travellers and diners alike.

With more than 550,000 travellers per day, Hamburg's main station is the most frequented passenger railway station in Germany, and second only to Paris-Nord, even the second most frequented passenger railway station is Europe. Every day, around 720 local and national trains roll in and out of Hamburg's main traffic hub. Public transport in Hamburg cannot be imagined without the eight mainline railway lines, four urban railways (including the S1, a direct connection to the airport) and six underground platforms for local traffic that intersect here.

[...]

The city centre is within a short walk. However, Hauptbahnhof itself knows to cater to the needs of both, locals and travellers trying to bridge the time until their next connection. 75 shops and restaurants are open seven days a week.
or (https://www.hamburg.com/visitors/getting-here/stations-22580)
Altona Station was opened in 1844 and is significantly older than Hamburg Central Station.

"Main Station" is up there with "Bahncard" as finest "Bahnglish"!

* How much, if any, of an address to translate is an industry debate. I've always sided with those who say if you read it on a map it to get there (e.g. street or station names) you leave it alone, but once you're there, you translate (so Office 1.01, 1st Floor, Bahnhofsempfangsgebäude Süd, Kielerstraße 225, 20000 Hamburg, is a legitimate rendering).
 

riceuten

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The ICEs Cologne-Brussels have 4-language announcements, only the order of the languages changes. Eurostar also used to have that, but I haven't used them recently on that route since I can normally avoid them.
The big difference, of course, being the 'monolingual only' announcements in their respective territories, though this is mainly at Flanders' insistence.
 

rvdborgt

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The big difference, of course, being the 'monolingual only' announcements in their respective territories, though this is mainly at Flanders' insistence.
The language regime was cemented in the Belgian constitution quite a long time ago. I'd be curious for a source about "Flanders' insistence" in this.
 
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generalnerd

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I don’t know if this has been mentioned but the RER A line has announcements in English, German and French. I think this is because of Disneyland Paris unless this is the standard across the network. Also, for what it’s worth, trains in wales also have announcements in both welsh and English.
 

riceuten

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The language regime was cemented in the Belgian constitution quite a long time ago. I'd be curious for a source about "Flanders' insistence" in this.
The Belgian constitution doesn't say "You must have announcements in Dutch/French only on their respective territories"

"Flander's insistence" is my own personal experience of travelling extensively around Belgium, talking with Flemish and Walloon people, and reading the Belgian press.
 

rvdborgt

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The Belgian constitution doesn't say "You must have announcements in Dutch/French only on their respective territories"
Correct, but equal treatment is important in the constitution, and therefore it is not allowed, for example, to do bilingual announcements in French and Dutch outside of Brussels and certain municipalities with language facilities. German must then also be added and Belgian railways don't seem to be willing/prepared/... to force their guards to do that (that would include German language courses etc.). I think that with automated announcements that shouldn't be a problem anymore though.
 

CC 72100

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I don’t know if this has been mentioned but the RER A line has announcements in English, German and French. I think this is because of Disneyland Paris unless this is the standard across the network.
Historically this only used to be at Vincennes, where it splits into 2 Eastern branches - one to Marne-la-Vallée (for disneyland) and one for Boissy-Saint-Léger. Order was French, then English, then German. At that point it would also announce (in French only) if it was a service which didn't stop at 2 of the stations between Vincennes and the terminus - which 2 these were I cannot recall.

I don't think the MI84 stock had any audio announcements anyway, but they're now all gone from line A.

This is all from 10 years ago when I lived out that way; they may now do more multilingual announcements at more points across the network than they used to.
 

generalnerd

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Historically this only used to be at Vincennes, where it splits into 2 Eastern branches - one to Marne-la-Vallée (for disneyland) and one for Boissy-Saint-Léger. Order was French, then English, then German. At that point it would also announce (in French only) if it was a service which didn't stop at 2 of the stations between Vincennes and the terminus - which 2 these were I cannot recall.

I don't think the MI84 stock had any audio announcements anyway, but they're now all gone from line A.

This is all from 10 years ago when I lived out that way; they may now do more multilingual announcements at more points across the network than they used to.
I’m pretty sure it was only at that station and at the station just before Disneyland (although I think it was also announced at another station too)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I’m pretty sure it was only at that station and at the station just before Disneyland (although I think it was also announced at another station too)
In German
 

Flying Dodo

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Last October I went to from London to Alicante. The SNCF Ouigo service from Gare de Lyon to Barcelona had automated announcements in French, Spanish & English, and virtually all of the manual announcements made by the staff were also in all 3 languages, although occasionally they missed out English. For the Renfe service from Barcelona to Alicante, everything, both automated and by a human, was in Spanish & English.
 

Bikeman78

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Used to be the same on the Oostende - Eupen ICs, can’t imagine that it’s changed. Only ever did the Eupen - Welkenraedt bit once, so don’t know if it did German as well, but can’t see why not!
I think the last time I went to Eupen was on an unrefurbished classic unit which had no public address system at all!
 

gysev

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Correct, but equal treatment is important in the constitution, and therefore it is not allowed, for example, to do bilingual announcements in French and Dutch outside of Brussels and certain municipalities with language facilities. German must then also be added and Belgian railways don't seem to be willing/prepared/... to force their guards to do that (that would include German language courses etc.). I think that with automated announcements that shouldn't be a problem anymore though.
Now that station announcements are automated, all trains to the airport are announced in 4 languages (Dutch/French/German/English), also in Flanders...
 

Amalie

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I forgot to mention a fun (silly) Belgium trivia that’s fun to know. In Brussels, the announcements are bilingual of course, but the order of announcements will differ depending on the station.

Using Brussels Central station as the “middle point,” all stations north are supposed to announce things in Dutch first, and all stations south are supposed to announce things in French first.

So what about the central station you might ask? Well, in classic Waffle-iron compromises, they switch the order of the languages every year.
 

k-c-p

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It's always fun when you board a DB ICE to Brussels in Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof and the whole "welcome on board this ICE..." is done in 4 languages, as it is followed directly by "we will shortly be arriving at Frankfurt Airport" in 4 languages :) .
 
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Not Europe, but when I was in Korea, announcements were in Korean, English and Japanese

Republic of Ireland (Iarnrod Eireann) makes all announcements (and signage) in Irish and English.

This is not Europe but Portland in Oregon in the USA has Spanish automated announcements on all of their trains (WES Commuter Rail) and trams (MAX Light Rail) and buses (Tri Met Buses) throughout the city. This seems particularly odd as they are nowhere near the Mexican border and Portland does not really have a particularly large Mexican population compared to other USA cities.
OT but it seems here in the US we are gradually moving towards a bilingual society with Spanish seen more and more. Many retail stores e.g. Home Depot now have signs in English and Spanish even in areas that do not have a significant Hispanic population. Reading the signs is a good way to improve one's Spanish vocabulary :)
 

30907

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OT but it seems here in the US we are gradually moving towards a bilingual society with Spanish seen more and more. Many retail stores e.g. Home Depot now have signs in English and Spanish even in areas that do not have a significant Hispanic population.
Except that the US government is apparently going the other way (source: my sister, quoting her professional translator network).
 

Gordon

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The EC from Genève to Milano has announcements in all four languages. Which is as far as I know the only SBB train to do so.
and in this case of course the train really does belong to 'SBB CFF FFS' (Geneve - Sierre/Siders =CFF; Sierre/Siders - Brig = SBB; Iselle - Domo = FFS
 
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Gordon

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A derogation from the norm used to occur on the train from Visp to Zermatt in Switzerland. At Christmas in the early 2000s they use to dress up the church tower adjacent to St Niklaus station (roughly the half way point between Visp and Zermatt). The train announcemnets used to run as follows:

Wir treffen in Sankt Niklaus...Nous arrivons a Saint Nicolas...We are arriving at St Niklaus

As all the words were translated in the whole announcement, I always used to say that the English version should have been 'We are arriving at Santa Claus.
 

riceuten

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Correct, but equal treatment is important in the constitution, and therefore it is not allowed, for example, to do bilingual announcements in French and Dutch outside of Brussels and certain municipalities with language facilities. German must then also be added and Belgian railways don't seem to be willing/prepared/... to force their guards to do that (that would include German language courses etc.). I think that with automated announcements that shouldn't be a problem anymore though.
The issue here was someone speaking the ‘wrong’ language in Flanders, *as well as* Dutch. My own personal experience in Flanders is that numerous people are completely fluent in French but are forbidden to speak it in a public context. I know of nowhere else in Europe that has such arcane rules. Talking to staff in Wallonia, no one there is expected to speak Dutch, but if they do then they are allowed to speak it.

De Lijn (the Flemish national bus company) drivers operating cross border routes (to Brussels and Wallonia) are actually forbidden to speak French. TEC, the Walloon equivalent, specifically recruits bilingual drivers for their own cross border routes.

And is Dutch in any kind of danger ? 60% of Belgian citizens speak it (against 39% French speakers). This idea that Dutch would be wiped out if NMBS staff were allowed to speak French in Flanders is extrapolation beyond any reasonable level.
 

rvdborgt

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The issue here was someone speaking the ‘wrong’ language in Flanders, *as well as* Dutch. My own personal experience in Flanders is that numerous people are completely fluent in French but are forbidden to speak it in a public context. I know of nowhere else in Europe that has such arcane rules. Talking to staff in Wallonia, no one there is expected to speak Dutch, but if they do then they are allowed to speak it.
I haven't made the rules... but for the governments and governmental organisations, the rules are laid down in the constitution and related laws and they're the same in the whole country: they must use the language(s) of the region when addressing the general public. If they want to use additional languages, they can, but then they must use all national languages first.
De Lijn (the Flemish national bus company) drivers operating cross border routes (to Brussels and Wallonia) are actually forbidden to speak French.
Never heard of that. In one-on-one conversations, they can use any language they see fit. I've heard De Lijn drivers use various languages. Public announcements are in Dutch only (except when crossing borders).
And is Dutch in any kind of danger ?
It generally was in Belgium, and that's where a lot of rules come from. In some municipalities around Brussels, it still is.
 

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