Storm Eowyn Disruption - 24/1/25

[dk1]

Not really - Have a firm commitment on Sunday / Monday and accommodation - If have to go on Sat can live with that

Have an advance ticket - hence why even if you apply for a refund you are then having to rebuy at much higher cost for something where the network has told you to stay at home.

I'm no expert on advance tickets but thought they usually permitted travel on the days either side. This is always the trouble when arranging things this time of year. When it comes to hotels I always book with free cancellation.

Irish Rail not running any services at all tomorrow.

Very sensible indeed.

 

[43066]

Not operating also causes strandings, of course. Accommodation might not be available, or they might not be able to afford it.

Hence why giving as much notice as possible is sensible, so that people can travel a day either side, or defer plans entirely. It’s unwise to travel across the country during severe weather by rail or any other means.

@CaptainHaddock to be fair at least seems to accept that if he is stranded it’s down to him, but we know many won’t think like that. To some extent it’s a mixed message to continue to run services at all so I’m glad to see they’re shutting parts of the network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hence why giving as much notice as possible is sensible, so that people can travel a day either side, or defer plans entirely. It’s unwise to travel across the country during severe weather by rail or any other means.

Yes, I'd agree with that. I do think the railway is getting better at it. And totally inflexible hotel bookings aren't that common now either - COVID seems to have pushed the default into being similar to Advances i.e. changeable but on payment of the price difference (if any) and sometimes a small fee. With Premier Inn you even get refunded the difference if the new date is cheaper (and with a bit of research that means you can get the loss down to the lowest rate for that hotel if you're genuinely never going to use it at all - Thursday and Sunday nights a few months ahead normally produce the £45 offer rooms).

 

[Smidster]

I was just going to ask about the policy for Advances for Friday where a "do not travel" notice has been issued, thus meaning people have to buy new tickets for a different day. If in the event your booked train didn't run I suppose you could claim on the grounds that you were still intending to travel on it, but it's fraudulent to pretend you were when you've made other arrangements. I suppose that's one of the downsides of non-flexible tickets. Although with the increasing absence of period returns that is a whole new ball game.

This is the point right.

When you have a "Do Not Travel" instruction it is not remotely fair to turn round to the customer (who has done everything right) and say..."Pay us again....Oh, and at a higher rate as well please"

In no other area of consumer law would that be deemed acceptable but because it is "the railway TM" they can do whatever the hell they like and laugh when you complain (before saying you are a criminal)

 

[perstreperous]

We now have Met Éireann and Met Office red warnings for all of Ireland and the central belt of Scotland (including both Glasgow and Edinburgh, which is even more unusual). All weather models are predicting 80-90mph gusts in those areas and a few are predicting gusts over 100mph, so this is more than "a bad winter storm".

 

[stuu]

This is the point right.

When you have a "Do Not Travel" instruction it is not remotely fair to turn round to the customer (who has done everything right) and say..."Pay us again....Oh, and at a higher rate as well please"

In no other area of consumer law would that be deemed acceptable but because it is "the railway TM" they can do whatever the hell they like and laugh when you complain (before saying you are a criminal)

They don't though. Avanti say people with advances can travel today, Saturday or Sunday. That's what normally happens AFAIK too

 

[Sealink]

Just one observation, todays 1200 London to Inverness is running as far as Perth only.

That means that tomorrow's 0755 from Inverness will also start at Perth - any reason why LNER aren't mentioning this yet?
I'm not booked on that train or anything, just curious as to when updates are, er, updated.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

To my mind it should be a "no-brainer" to suspend all services in the red warning areas, and beyond as far as necessary into the amber areas.

The October 1987 Michael Fish "non-hurricane" showed just how destructive these extreme events are with many lines across the affected area blocked for several days by 1,000s of fallen trees.

Luckily, that storm struck in the middle of the night so very few trains were operating.

As this was long before the days of yellow, amber and red warnings, so had this storm had struck 12 hours earlier or later the consequences of the rail network running as normal don't bear thinking about.

 

[deep south]

It's not a question of who knows better, it's that the choice of whether to travel or not should always be the customer's, not the TOC's. If they've advertised a service and sold tickets for it then surely they have a moral (perhaps also legal) obligation to honour that contract until such point as it becomes impossible to do so?


Yes, that’s exactly what I intend to do. Friday’s my day off so I’ll be getting a train out into the hills, being aware of any potential disruption but wilfully ignoring any “do not travel” warnings.

In fact I’m rather looking forward to it, a bright blustery day makes for a very exhilarating walk out on the tops! And yes, if I do get stranded I’ll fully accept it was my own choice to take that risk; I’m not sure why that makes you so angry?

What an arrogant and selfish attitude to have, I am sure mountain rescue and the other emergency services will be very grateful to practice a potential casualty evacuation in very difficult circumstances....

Or since you accept it was your own choice they should just leave you there...

 

[arb]

Saying "do not travel" to somebody who is at home and about to embark on a day trip out somewhere, or go to work (assuming they can also work from home), or about to go away on day 1 of a multi-day trip (can always wait until tomorrow) is one thing,

Saying "do not travel" to somebody who is already away from home and is expecting to return home, potentially unable to extend their hotel/other accommodation booking, is a different thing altogether. Ultimately, it will just push people away from public transport and into their cars for such multi-day trips.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Saying "do not travel" to somebody who is already away from home and is expecting to return home, potentially unable to extend their hotel/other accommodation booking, is a different thing altogether. Ultimately, it will just push people away from public transport and into their cars for such multi-day trips.

Though saying it today and offfering validity extension means the latter can potentially make arrangements to return home today instead of waiting until tomorrow.

 

[43066]

Yes, I'd agree with that. I do think the railway is getting better at it. And totally inflexible hotel bookings aren't that common now either - COVID seems to have pushed the default into being similar to Advances i.e. changeable but on payment of the price difference (if any) and sometimes a small fee. With Premier Inn you even get refunded the difference if the new date is cheaper (and with a bit of research that means you can get the loss down to the lowest rate for that hotel if you're genuinely never going to use it at all - Thursday and Sunday nights a few months ahead normally produce the £45 offer rooms).

Indeed. It’s likely there’s going to be more need for this kind of flexibility in future as “extreme weather” occurs more often.

When you have a "Do Not Travel" instruction it is not remotely fair to turn round to the customer (who has done everything right) and say..."Pay us again....Oh, and at a higher rate as well please"

That isn’t actually whey they’re doing, though?

Saying "do not travel" to somebody who is already away from home and is expecting to return home, potentially unable to extend their hotel/other accommodation booking, is a different thing altogether. Ultimately, it will just push people away from public transport and into their cars for such multi-day trips.

People should be planning to travel a day earlier or later in an event like this, and they’ve been given enough notice to do so. People really shouldn’t be driving in these conditions, either, but that’s impossible to prevent. The fact some people make bad decisions isn’t an argument for the railway to keep operating where it’s unsafe to do so.

Presumably you wouldn’t expect other modes such as airlines, ferries etc. to keep operating in dangerous wind conditions just to prevent people from driving, and the railway is no different.

 

[Walter Whigham]

Just one observation, todays 1200 KGX INV is running as far as PER only.
That means that tomorrow's 0755 from INV will also start at PER - any reason why LNER aren't mentioning this yet?
I'm not booked on that train or anything, just curious as to when updates are, er, updated.

The LNER website reports that no LNER trains will be operating in Scotland tomorrow. It admits that trains are still in the journey planners pending amendment of the timetables.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That isn’t actually whey they’re doing, though?

If you want to replan to an entirely different date that isn't quite as far in advance as you originally booked it can be. I think easyJet get this one right (or did when I was using them often) - if your flight was disrupted any flight on that booking* could be rescheduled at no cost to any future date open for booking, so potentially months ahead. It might be harder for the railway to do this technically but it's something to aim at.

* When I weekly commuted I tended to book a couple of months' worth on one booking, so that meant potentially 8 weeks' worth becoming fully flexible which was nice

 

[oldman]

Just one observation, todays 1200 KGX INV is running as far as PER only.
That means that tomorrow's 0755 from INV will also start at PER - any reason why LNER aren't mentioning this yet?
I'm not booked on that train or anything, just curious as to when updates are, er, updated.

They are saying nothing north of Newcastle tomorrow, which would include the Chieftain. Scotrail meanwhile seem to have their heads in the sand. On National Rail there may be disruption, on their own site nothing.

 

[43066]

If you want to replan to an entirely different date that isn't quite as far in advance as you originally booked it can be.

I agree there should be more flexibility in that case.

Although if you were on (say) a trip to the lakes, booked to return on an advance ticket on Friday, AIUI Avanti will let you choose to travel back south either today or on Saturday, so that should surely cover most situations.

 

[alholmes]

Caledonian Sleeper cancels all services Thursday night and Friday night

 

[Sealink]

The LNER website reports that no LNER trains will be operating in Scotland tomorrow. It admits that trains are still in the journey planners pending amendment of the timetables.

They are saying nothing north of Newcastle tomorrow, which would include the Chieftain. Scotrail meanwhile seem to have their heads in the sand. On National Rail there may be disruption, on their own site nothing.

And I scrolled past that bit to see the individual train updates!

 

[Lewisham2221]

We were the only train in at the time. I reiterate my previous point about revisiting "The Rules", given the huge costs and inconveniences that delays cause ...

I was just going to ask about the policy for Advances for Friday where a "do not travel" notice has been issued, thus meaning people have to buy new tickets for a different day. If in the event your booked train didn't run I suppose you could claim on the grounds that you were still intending to travel on it, but it's fraudulent to pretend you were when you've made other arrangements. I suppose that's one of the downsides of non-flexible tickets. Although with the increasing absence of period returns that is a whole new ball game.

This is the point right.

When you have a "Do Not Travel" instruction it is not remotely fair to turn round to the customer (who has done everything right) and say..."Pay us again....Oh, and at a higher rate as well please"

In no other area of consumer law would that be deemed acceptable but because it is "the railway TM" they can do whatever the hell they like and laugh when you complain (before saying you are a criminal)

Transpennine, Crosscountry and LNER are accepting Friday tickets Thursday to Monday.

Avanti are accepting Friday tickets Thursday to Sunday.

All of the above are advertising full, fee free, refunds if you choose not to travel.

 

[Peter0124]

Tomorrows Emirates flights at Glasgow and Newcastle appear to be delayed by 19 hours or more, probably to avoid landing in the red warning.

 

[Oxfordblues]

We now have Met Éireann and Met Office red warnings for all of Ireland and the central belt of Scotland

I note that the UK Met Office have carefully avoided including County Donegal in the red warning, even though it might be the worst affected. There's clearly a political sensitivity involved!

 

[Horizon22]

It's not a question of who knows better, it's that the choice of whether to travel or not should always be the customer's, not the TOC's. If they've advertised a service and sold tickets for it then surely they have a moral (perhaps also legal) obligation to honour that contract until such point as it becomes impossible to do so?

And what if the TOCs and Network Rail have got better and more privileged information that the customer on the severity of the issue and the likely impacts?

Not illegal at all. Although inconvenient, tickets can be refunded.

I seem to note you always take this like when weather related disruption occurs, so I think we’ll just to have agree to disagree.

 

[Morayshire]

Scotrail meanwhile seem to have their heads in the sand. On National Rail there may be disruption, on their own site nothing.

Which is really annoying as I need to have a discussion sooner rather than later with the boss about whether or not I can work from home tomorrow. Note - usual commute goes through yellow and amber warnings only at the moment... problem is likely to be getting back home in the evening as opposed to getting to work.

 

[Horizon22]

Not operating also causes strandings, of course. Accommodation might not be available, or they might not be able to afford it.

Although it is much better to be “stranded” on a station with available road transport at the very least - and probably some direct or indirect staff support - than in the sticks having to organise an evacuation having been immobile for at least 2 hours to the nearest access point which will be far more inconvenient and no easier to get any replacement transport too.

It really is simple; there may be mass disruption, an extremely limited service, stranded trains, routes blocked, staff overwhelmed, other operators disrupted and no guarantee of available replacement road transport. Essentially there is no guarantee the service can be provided hence a DO NOT TRAVEL warning to limit the quantity of passengers impact by what is likely to be a majorly disruptive day (or two).

Just one observation, todays 1200 KGX INV is running as far as PER only.
That means that tomorrow's 0755 from INV will also start at PER - any reason why LNER aren't mentioning this yet?
I'm not booked on that train or anything, just curious as to when updates are, er, updated.

The 1200 service and the 0755 are formed of different trains. The issue will be unit and crew balancing to get the trains to start forward, especially if they are some of the first trains of the day. This requires a lot of on-the-day planning to deviate from the timetable and get the service plan together and no doubt train planners and controllers are trying to get everything in order as best they can as we speak.

 

[arb]

Presumably you wouldn’t expect other modes such as airlines, ferries etc. to keep operating in dangerous wind conditions just to prevent people from driving, and the railway is no different.

In the case of airlines, I'd expect to be able to turn up at the airport on the day of my booked flight, find that some proportion of flights are cancelled and some proportion are still running, maybe get lucky and still get home, maybe not. But if not, I'd expect them to do something to try and sort out the rest of my journey for me via some alternative route, which, again, might be possible, or it might not. And if not, there is food available to me in the airport. Worst case I can sleep on the floor in the airport and still be warm and dry until the disruption is cleared.

Ferries, I have no experience with, so can't really comment, but from a quick glance at the CalMac Ferries website, I see the messaging "some of our services may be delayed or cancelled", which says to me "it's likely to go wrong at some point tomorrow but we'll be up and running again as soon as we can". Compare that to the railway's "do not travel", which says to me "we're just not going to bother, there's no point in you even trying to use us".

Ultimately, regardless of what the railway, airline and ferry might or might not do to help me if I do actually turn up in the middle of tomorrow expecting to travel, the railway's messaging gives the impression of "stay away, fend for yourself", whilst the other forms of travel appear to be "we'll try and help you, but there's no promises". For many people, that appearance counts for a lot more than what actually happens.

 

[StoneRoad]

Pleased that Northern have dropped the Cumbrian Coast line into "Do Not Travel" - from Flimby southwards most of the route is, effectively, on the sea wall. Very exposed to on-shore winds & in some areas, close enough for a sea-water bath !

ION, Steam Packet have cancelled all four of Friday's Manxman sailings.
If the last two trips go today, she'll be back in Heysham for the worst of it ...

 

[Horizon22]

In the case of airlines, I'd expect to be able to turn up at the airport on the day of my booked flight, find that some proportion of flights are cancelled and some proportion are still running, maybe get lucky and still get home, maybe not. But if not, I'd expect them to do something to try and sort out the rest of my journey for me via some alternative route, which, again, might be possible, or it might not. And if not, there is food available to me in the airport. Worst case I can sleep on the floor in the airport and still be warm and dry until the disruption is cleared.

Ferries, I have no experience with, so can't really comment, but from a quick glance at the CalMac Ferries website, I see the messaging "some of our services may be delayed or cancelled", which says to me "it's likely to go wrong at some point tomorrow but we'll be up and running again as soon as we can". Compare that to the railway's "do not travel", which says to me "we're just not going to bother, there's no point in you even trying to use us".

Ultimately, regardless of what the railway, airline and ferry might or might not do to help me if I do actually turn up in the middle of tomorrow expecting to travel, the railway's messaging gives the impression of "stay away, fend for yourself", whilst the other forms of travel appear to be "we'll try and help you, but there's no promises". For many people, that appearance counts for a lot more than what actually happens.

Using your analogy there’s also “food available” to you at home or where you are staying and you can also probably sleep there. The intention is not to start your journey in the first place so you don’t end up in an uncomfortable, inconvenient situation where you may only be able to get part way there. Being stuck on the station is analogous with being stuck at the airport but apparently one of those is suitable to you but one isn’t?

Personally I’d rather the “stay away we can’t guarantee assistance” than the “we’ll try but no promises” which might mean essentially the same thing anyway. At least you know where you stand as opposed to hundreds of people trying to get the attention of a few overworked, low paid members of staff.

 

[driver9000]

Network Rail have announced that the West Coast Main Line is closed from 03:00 until 22:00 on Friday 24 January and other North West routes are closed until 12:00.

Storm Éowyn: Do not travel advice across most of the North West

People planning rail journeys in the North West of England are being urged not to travel on Friday due to the impacts of Storm Éowyn.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

People planning rail journeys in the North West of England are being urged not to travel on Friday due to the impacts of Storm Éowyn.

The named storm will bring the strongest winds we have seen in a decade between 0300 and 1800 on Friday 24 January and will severely impact rail services north of Preston and south of Carlisle.

On the West Coast Main Line, no services will run North of Preston between 0300 and 2200 on Friday. Services will start and stop at Preston. At Preston station, some platforms may be closed for safety reasons due to high winds
No services will run on the Settle to Carlisle line and the Cumbrian coast line between 0300 on Friday and 12 noon on Saturday
No services will run between Carnforth and Settle from 0300 on Friday to 12 noon Saturday
No services will run on Windermere and Morecambe branches from 0300 on Friday to 12 noon on Saturday
Passengers travelling on the Merseyrail network are advised to check before they travel

 

[IrishDave]

The 1200 service and the 0755 are formed of different trains. The issue will be unit and crew balancing to get the trains to start forward, especially if they are some of the first trains of the day. This requires a lot of on-the-day planning to deviate from the timetable and get the service plan together and no doubt train planners and controllers are trying to get everything in order as best they can as we speak.

No, today's 1200 KGX-INV and tomorrow's 0755 INV-KGX are always formed of the same train. Only one LNER train overnights at Inverness. It's also the same crew, I believe, a Newcastle crew that lodges in Inverness. In general, yes, planning the units and crews on a very different timetable to normal is very difficult, but you can be absolutely certain that if LNER's one train doesn't get to Inverness tonight, it won't leave Inverness tomorrow!

 

[MrB]

Network Rail have announced that the West Coast Main Line is closed from 03:00 until 22:00 on Friday 24 January and other North West routes are closed until 12:00.

Storm Éowyn: Do not travel advice across most of the North West

People planning rail journeys in the North West of England are being urged not to travel on Friday due to the impacts of Storm Éowyn.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

To clarify this is a WCML closure NORTH OF PRESTON over that period, not the entire line.