Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[Bobcp]

Yes - that was the only one when I was there last Saturday morning.
Only other units to be seen were Voyagers.

When is "next" ! - Getting soon I feel but cannot be sure.

Possibly all the other 8, are in the shed all completely uncoupled.

510, That could be a good clue to what will be travelling down south next.

I know that both 720534 and 720104 have been viewed, not by myself, as made up 5 car trains.
No external numbers were displayed but identified via. labels in the windows.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I know that both 720534 and 720104 have been viewed, not by myself, as made up 5 car trains.
No external numbers were displayed but identified via. labels in the windows.

Makes more sense to me for the newer build to be got out first (so 720534 and 720104 are reasonable). Two reasons - might be more errors on the first units built but also they have spent less time in siding deteriorating even further (like 720503, 720504 & 720505).

To recap the order of age would be (oldest to newest) :-
720503 (assembled circa 2018 ?)
720504
720505
720510
720516
720534
(a gap of 59 units)
720104
720141
720143 (assembled late 2024)

 

[47584Suffolk]

Makes more sense to me for the newer build to be got out first (so 720534 and 720104 are reasonable). Two reasons - might be more errors on the first units built but also they have spent less time in siding deteriorating even further (like 720503, 720504 & 720505).

To recap the order of age would be (oldest to newest) :-
720503 (assembled circa 2018 ?)
720504
720505
720510
720516
720534
(a gap of 59 units)
720104
720141
720143 (assembled late 2024)

According to one of my contacts, next units for delivery are expected to be 720141, 720143, 720516 (the former test bed which even reached Norwich), 720510 and 720503 in that order.

In numerical order, that will leave 720104 (the PMS of which is reportedly still numbered 451583 after a swap with problematical 720583 by road from Ilford to Derby/vv in early 2023), 720504, 720505 and 720534 (part of which went to Vienna for climate testing). Anticipated that 720505 will be the very last to be delivered.

 

[Peter Sarf]

According to one of my contacts, next units for delivery are expected to be 720141, 720143, 720516 (the former test bed which even reached Norwich), 720510 and 720503 in that order.

In numerical order, that will leave 720104 (the PMS of which is reportedly still numbered 451583 after a swap with problematical 720583 by road from Ilford to Derby/vv in early 2023), 720504, 720505 and 720534 (part of which went to Vienna for climate testing). Anticipated that 720505 will be the very last to be delivered.

Thankyou for the information. I shall wake up when I read 720505 has moved South. OK so I will probably weaken before that !.
An example of where a vehicle (coach) number can be misleading !.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

According to one of my contacts, next units for delivery are expected to be 720141, 720143, 720516 (the former test bed which even reached Norwich), 720510 and 720503 in that order.

In numerical order, that will leave 720104 (the PMS of which is reportedly still numbered 451583 after a swap with problematical 720583 by road from Ilford to Derby/vv in early 2023), 720504, 720505 and 720534 (part of which went to Vienna for climate testing). Anticipated that 720505 will be the very last to be delivered.

That's useful to know - I don't suppose we have an indication of the timescale on these final units...?

 

[720144]

According to one of my contacts, next units for delivery are expected to be 720141, 720143, 720516 (the former test bed which even reached Norwich), 720510 and 720503 in that order.

In numerical order, that will leave 720104 (the PMS of which is reportedly still numbered 451583 after a swap with problematical 720583 by road from Ilford to Derby/vv in early 2023), 720504, 720505 and 720534 (part of which went to Vienna for climate testing). Anticipated that 720505 will be the very last to be delivered.

Awesome, thank you for the early update. I hope to see 720505 be the last unit to be down south before the summer.

Do you have a specific date to when the next 3x 720s are heading down south ?

 

[47584Suffolk]

Awesome, thank you for the early update. I hope to see 720505 be the last unit to be down south before the summer.

Do you have a specific date to when the next 3x 720s are heading down south ?

Sorry, no dates but thought to be fairly imminent.

 

[Peter Sarf]

According to one of my contacts, next units for delivery are expected to be 720141, 720143, 720516 (the former test bed which even reached Norwich), 720510 and 720503 in that order.

In numerical order, that will leave 720104 (the PMS of which is reportedly still numbered 451583 after a swap with problematical 720583 by road from Ilford to Derby/vv in early 2023), 720504, 720505 and 720534 (part of which went to Vienna for climate testing). Anticipated that 720505 will be the very last to be delivered.

I have worked something out (jumping at rash ideas). My notes show that last August 2024 there were 14 outstanding 720s. Now (January 2025) it is 9 outstanding (been that way since December actually). So five delivered in five months would mean the next (last) nine would be October 2025.

I can imagine a few might arrive more or less together - that would appear to be 720141, 720143 & 720516. But then a pause I am afraid, like we have had before ?.

What worries me (my obsession) is the last units will be the hardest to rectify, un-fester (damp) and/or test so October 2025 in my mind is more optimistic than pessimistic.

Then again perhaps Derby has nothing else to do so can crack on.

Lead time for parts could be a factor though. New build fleets always seem to have not quite enough spares so some units become christmass trees (parts donors) before ever getting used.

 

[720144]

I have worked something out (jumping at rash ideas). My notes show that last August 2024 there were 14 outstanding 720s. Now (January 2025) it is 9 outstanding (been that way since December actually). So five delivered in five months would mean the next (last) nine would be October 2025.

I can imagine a few might arrive more or less together - that would appear to be 720141, 720143 & 720516. But then a pause I am afraid, like we have had before ?.

Very true. It rhymes as well. 9 remaining 720s rolling out together in 9 months time, I like that phase.

 

[50002Superb]

I wonder if the 200 event in Derby will have any bearing on the timescale. It wouldn’t surprise me if just the last unit is still there at that point as an exhibit (ie the final 720 to be produced)

 

[87electric]

I wonder if the 200 event in Derby will have any bearing on the timescale. It wouldn’t surprise me if just the last unit is still there at that point as an exhibit (ie the final 720 to be produced)

Have half a dozen 701s there as well with a raffle for charity to guess which one will be last into service. And which year.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wonder if the 200 event in Derby will have any bearing on the timescale. It wouldn’t surprise me if just the last unit is still there at that point as an exhibit (ie the final 720 to be produced)

They may well have one as an exhibit, but it won't be the final one produced... that was 720 144 and it's been in service for a few weeks now...

 

[50002Superb]

They may well have one as an exhibit, but it won't be the final one produced... that was 720 144 and it's been in service for a few weeks now...

The general public won’t be splitting hairs over stuff like that though.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I wonder if the 200 event in Derby will have any bearing on the timescale. It wouldn’t surprise me if just the last unit is still there at that point as an exhibit (ie the final 720 to be produced)

A bit of me ponders....
Could that be the last unit there ever.

It would be nice to think Derby will be too busy to have a 720 cluttering up the place.

Reminds me - must go and ask a question on the 345 thread.

 

[Russel]

A bit of me ponders....
Could that be the last unit there ever.

It would be nice to think Derby will be too busy to have a 720 cluttering up the place.

Reminds me - must go and ask a question on the 345 thread.

You raise a good point here, once the HS2 and 345 order are complete, unless Alstom win the Northern/GWR orders, I can see Litchurch Lane being a housing estate...

 

[Bobcp]

You raise a good point here, once the HS2 and 345 order are complete, unless Alstom win the Northern/GWR orders, I can see Litchurch Lane being a housing estate...

Don't forget that Derby LL have the contract to fully refurbish all 58 Cross Country Trains Voyagers.

 

[hwl]

You raise a good point here, once the HS2 and 345 order are complete, unless Alstom win the Northern/GWR orders, I can see Litchurch Lane being a housing estate...

You forgot three:

Northern/GWR/Southeastern/Scotrail/TransPennine orders

 

[Russel]

You forgot three:

Northern/GWR/Southeastern/Scotrail/TransPennine orders

Oops, yeah, forgot them...

The issue with those is how far the orders are going to be kicked into the long grass, potential orders won't keep a factory open when the work dries up.

 

[3973EXL]

47727 dep Derby 1258

Realtime Trains | 5Q68 1245 Derby Litchurch Lane to Willesden T.M.D | 21/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q68 1245 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Willesden T.M.D on 21/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[wickham]

Can anyuone say what 5Q68 Derby-Willesden is conveying please (is it 720141 as predicted above ?)

 

[3973EXL]

5Q68 720143/141

 

[50002Superb]

5Q68 720143/141

Both of them!?

 

[3973EXL]

Both of them!?

That's what I posted!

Both out on

Realtime Trains | 5Q27 0832 Willesden T.M.D to Rugby Udt Signal Rn4184 | 22/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q27 0832 departure from Willesden T.M.D to Rugby Udt Signal Rn4184 on 22/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[50002Superb]

Blimey that’s surprised me but great to hear!

 

[Peter Sarf]

5Q68 720143/141

I saw them arrive on 5Q68 yesterday evening about 17:20 by Willesden Junction station / bus turning loop.
47727 was making a fine sound just before is came into view - took me back to the 1970s !.
720143 behind with a wheel flat or two under the trailing cab. 720141 behind that. No barrier coaches btw.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Will these two take several weeks to enter service or is it likely to be quicker now it's just a handful left?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Will these two take several weeks to enter service or is it likely to be quicker now it's just a handful left?

The pessimist in me expects it to be the opposite (testing / delivery getting more protracted) as I guess Derby etc will now be scraping the bottom of the barrel. It makes sense that the easiest to get into service will have been first. Be that fixing at Derby or anticipated straight forward testing.

I wish I knew whether testing so soon after arrival at Willesden is normal. I feel that testing two together is unusual but happy to be corrected ?.

Remember the next expected were 141 & 143 and then 720516 so wonder if that might be soon !. But I do wonder if there will be further pauses as has happened in the past. The last entries into service in 2024 (October iirc) were grouped together with a pause either side.

There will always be a straggler and it seems that will be 720505. My bet is that it will (eventually) include the problematical PMS (former 451583) unless it is already fixed !.

As per below (my bold) :-

According to one of my contacts, next units for delivery are expected to be 720141, 720143, 720516 (the former test bed which even reached Norwich), 720510 and 720503 in that order.

In numerical order, that will leave 720104 (the PMS of which is reportedly still numbered 451583 after a swap with problematical 720583 by road from Ilford to Derby/vv in early 2023), 720504, 720505 and 720534 (part of which went to Vienna for climate testing). Anticipated that 720505 will be the very last to be delivered.

 

[720144]

5Q68 720143/141

When is 720516 heading south next ?

 

[Wivenswold]

I apologise if I've missed it within the last 104 pages, but is there any indication as to what services will be bolstered by the remaining units? I encounter far too many 5 car diagrams on the London to Clacton service, in particular, the first "cheap day ticket" train which is always rammed by the time it gets to Chelmsford.

It really is time for a twice hourly London to Clacton service with a fast and one that stops at Marks Tey and also all stations between Wivenhoe and Thorpe. But that discussion is for another day in another thread.

 

[JCO1406]

I apologise if I've missed it within the last 104 pages, but is there any indication as to what services will be bolstered by the remaining units? I encounter far too many 5 car diagrams on the London to Clacton service, in particular, the first "cheap day ticket" train which is always rammed by the time it gets to Chelmsford.

It really is time for a twice hourly London to Clacton service with a fast and one that stops at Marks Tey and also all stations between Wivenhoe and Thorpe. But that discussion is for another day in another thread.

Or extend the Walton services down to London