BBC News - Manchester-Liverpool rail line closed after Salford car crash - 07/02

[brad465]

If, as the BBC suggests, it’s a single vehicle drink-driving offence, does “the railway” pursue the driver for all resultant costs? If not, why not? They should be on the hook for this until the last penny is paid (and not by the insurance company if they’ve even got insurance).

This driver could easily be going to prison for the offence. Perhaps they can help recoup some of the costs through some slave labour while locked up? Most inmates already do jobs in their prison and are paid well below minimum wage.

 

[syorksdeano]

Would they be allowed to reopen the line without repairing the hole in the wall?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Would they be allowed to reopen the line without repairing the hole in the wall?

No

 

[Haywain]

Would they be allowed to reopen the line without repairing the hole in the wall?

A form of temporary fencing would probably suffice (and not simply Heras fencing).

 

[Horizon22]

I think the damage to the OHLE will be the big repair job rather than the wall.

Indeed. It’s smashed into it from above so it’s likely been sheared / cut / damaged in a number of ways and not in a neat way either. No doubt some track damage too.

This has some similarities (less obstacles here though!) to the incident on the Piccadilly line when the driver smashed through a Tesla garage car park and wall and onto the track at Park Royal at very high speed.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Indeed. It’s smashed into it from above so it’s likely been sheared / cut / damaged in a number of ways and not in a neat way either. No doubt some track damage too.

There was another picture I think possibly in the Liverpool echo, it shows the OHLE all over the place, wires hanging down etc. It looked quite a mess on one side, the other side looked in tact but I couldn't tell for sure.

 

[Spartacus]

The problem appears to be Network Rails own fault: an inadequate bridge parapet. Given the weight of traffic using the bridge it should have been constructed to withstand a maximum credible accident. Which, on a road used by 40 to HGVs is more than a mere collision by la lightweight vehicle.

So he's come off the road, through the barriers, through trees, damaged one not unsubstantial concrete and steel wall, probably whist airborne, and gone through a second, and you think it's Network Rail's fault?!

I dread to think what speed he was doing along the M602 but I bet someone's looking at camera footage now. He's just gone straight on at the junction, video game 'skills'.

He's rather lucky there was a possession on and the overheads were isolated at the time too.

 

[plugwash]

The media doesn’t understand geography north of Watford, Private Eye’s latest has Stockport in place of Southport, it’s not surprising.

On a related note, am I the only one who finds talk of the "main railway line between Liverpool and Manchester" weird. My recollection is that the two routes between Liverpool and Manchester have roughly equal journey times, and equal numbers of express services.

 

[jfollows]

Ah, yes, the dreadful Reach web sites are describing it as a “horror crash” as usual, I’m not sure what this means and why I’m meant to be told to be horrified in this way.

 

[Chester1]

On a related note, am I the only one who finds talk of the "main railway line between Liverpool and Manchester" weird. My recollection is that the two routes between Liverpool and Manchester have roughly equal journey times, and equal numbers of express services.

Chat Moss has been faster since electrification and associated upgrades in the 2010s. Lime Street - Victoria is ~35 minutes every half hour. Lime Street - Piccadilly is ~50 minutes via CLC.

 

[185]

Always said the M602 ends in the wrong place. Should extend the motorway to Castlefield. 30 years of traffic jams & accidents due to people driving like idiots on Regent Road. Been many, many accidents on that roundabout but this is the first vehicle I've heard of to go over the side. Needs concrete covering or better still, extend the motorway.

 

[The exile]

I'd expect the costs are orders of magnitude higher than most people's personal wealth - isn't that what insurance is for?

Shouldn’t cover criminal offences. Clearly the railway wouldn’t recover anything like its costs on this occasion. I’m thinking more about the potential deterrent factor.

 

[HSTEd]

The driver looks rather lucky to be alive given how far they fell.

 

[Discuss223]

BBC News - Manchester-Liverpool rail line closed after Salford car crash

- BBC News

Rail lines reopen after car plunges onto tracks

Disruption is still expected until the end of Friday as trains and crews have been displaced

www.bbc.co.uk

Said driver should be made to pay the delay repay and refund costs of tickets to all customers. It's not fair that we, the fare payer should pay for someone's wreckless behaviour.

 

[AndrewE]

Does anybody recognise the car? I haven't seen a make or model mentioned yet, so can't imagine how big it is just from seeing its underside!

Always said the M602 ends in the wrong place. Should extend the motorway to Castlefield. 30 years of traffic jams & accidents due to people driving like idiots on Regent Road. Been many, many accidents on that roundabout but this is the first vehicle I've heard of to go over the side. Needs concrete covering or better still, extend the motorway.

or, instead of delivering more cars faster into the centre of the city, how about cutting the motorway back? Maybe to a good P&R, tram or rail centre?
There are plenty of precedents in civilised countries.

 

[Discuss223]

isn't that what insurance is for?

IF they have insurance.

 

[45669]

On a related note, am I the only one who finds talk of the "main railway line between Liverpool and Manchester" weird. My recollection is that the two routes between Liverpool and Manchester have roughly equal journey times, and equal numbers of express services.

I was confused at first. My first thought was 'how does an incident at Salford affect the CLC route via Warrington?'

I now know that it doesn't!

At first glance, the BBC report gives the impression that the line to Manchester Airport is also affected. But of course it isn't, although there are fewer trains than usual.

 

[185]

...instead of delivering more cars faster into the centre of the city, how about cutting the motorway back? Maybe to a good P&R, tram or rail centre? There are plenty of precedents in civilised countries.

I agree, they need banning.. but we're not a civilised country, no politician would dare do that here.

 

[Haywain]

the line to Manchester Airport is also affected. But of course it isn't, although there are fewer trains than usual.

So, it's either affected or it isn't, and having fewer trains would suggest that it is, especially for people coming from Liverpool.

 

[Taunton]

The media doesn’t understand geography north of Watford, Private Eye’s latest has Stockport in place of Southport, it’s not surprising.

I assure you BBC radio geography south of Watford is equally correct.

A while ago trains were disorganised "Between Sness and London Fenchurch Street". Some rail industry abbreviation made it through, just read out as it appeared.

 

[standish1]

So, it's either affected or it isn't, and having fewer trains would suggest that it is, especially for people coming from Liverpool.

According to sources it was a BMW Car

 

[Haywain]

According to sources it was a BMW Car

I've a sneaking suspicion that you meant to quote someone other than me!!

 

[plugwash]

Chat Moss has been faster since electrification and associated upgrades in the 2010s. Lime Street - Victoria is ~35 minutes every half hour. Lime Street - Piccadilly is ~50 minutes via CLC.

Fair enough, I guess they sent all the fast chat moss services to Victoria at around the same time they sped it up. So I (as someone resident in the south of the conurbation) failed to notice.

 

[Krokodil]

They could probably do Chester-Piccadilly via Northwich but seem reluctant to do that these days.

19x aren't cleared for the route and no one has signed the diversion in years.

Diverting the train for the benefit of the Manchester passengers screws over everyone trying to use the other six stations on the route, not least those making connections with Anglo-Scottish trains at Warrington. Manchester passengers can get the shuttle to Crewe or use Northern's CLC stopper instead (in both cases the connections at Chester are very well timed), passengers travelling from Runcorn East to Warrington (for example) have no alternative services at all.

 

[45669]

So, it's either affected or it isn't, and having fewer trains would suggest that it is, especially for people coming from Liverpool.

But a first reading of the BBC report made it sound as though the line to Manchester Airport was closed as a result of the Salford incident - together with various other lines.

Obviously it's all become clearer as the day progressed.

 

[TheGarner]

Came from: https://x.com/NetworkRailMAN/status/1887840807824019745

 

[Western Gaffer]

Said driver should be made to pay the delay repay and refund costs of tickets to all customers. It's not fair that we, the fare payer should pay for someone's wreckless behaviour.

Today's situation certainly isn't wreckless, given the state of the car! Reckless, on the other hand....

 

[sjm77]

Always said the M602 ends in the wrong place. Should extend the motorway to Castlefield. 30 years of traffic jams & accidents due to people driving like idiots on Regent Road. Been many, many accidents on that roundabout but this is the first vehicle I've heard of to go over the side. Needs concrete covering or better still, extend the motorway

That would just deliver motorway speed cars to the junction with Trinity Way and Mancunian way. A tight turn at speed with far more pedestrain footfall about. Sounds like a death trap to me!

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

It's some distance from the road. Although obviously not far enough in this instance, I wonder how many bridge parapets on actual roads are built to withstand a vehicle impact at speed?

Road parapets and barriers are rated to different weights/forces depending on where they are and what risk they are guarding against - for example the A66 over Greta Gorge is rated for being able to stop wagons hitting it and ploughing through, so should be able to stop that happening, but it's relatively new.

No

Didn't stop them opening the one at Aspatria with just some plastic barriers and a set of traffic lights in place.

Shouldn’t cover criminal offences. Clearly the railway wouldn’t recover anything like its costs on this occasion. I’m thinking more about the potential deterrent factor.

If as we suspect this is down to excessive speed and lack of talent or impairment through drugs/alcohol, there are already deterrents in place for those. I'm not sure another deterrent is going to do anything the others haven't!

 

[Howardh]

Came from: https://x.com/NetworkRailMAN/status/1887840807824019745

Thanks, think it will buff out?

I take it the crane can work on both road and rail looking at the tyres - is it strong enough to lift a train carriage off and away?