Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[Geogregor]

Will SE receive more 377s after this and would there be enough to get rid of all networkers?

No, there is no enough 377s to replace all the Networkers. We have to wait for the new trains to get rid of them.

 

[PGAT]

Agreed, although the 377s will be a huge step up. However, I do question their suitability on metro services. SE will also have 4 different metro fleets!

Will SE receive more 377s after this and would there be enough to get rid of all networkers?

From what I have heard the 377s will only be doing mainline duties such as Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells to replace the Networkers that currently run but to improve reliability none will be withdrawn as a direct result of this

 

[brad465]

From what I have heard the 377s will only be doing mainline duties such as Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells to replace the Networkers that currently run but to improve reliability none will be withdrawn as a direct result of this

Does Southeastern have spare stabling capacity available to prevent this?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No, there is no enough 377s to replace all the Networkers. We have to wait for the new trains to get rid of them.

Since Southern are getting 25 387s and giving 13 377s, they could have given 25 377s and seen off all 465/9s - and they’d have probably chucked the 466s too and just changed a load of 10 car diagrams to 8 as per SWR with 456s - therefore getting rid of all the Met Cam networkers without Southern being any worse off than they were before the 387 cascade started.

However, restoring some of the capacity lost since the 455 withdrawal is clearly a bigger priority to the DfT - surprisingly for them - and so they’re giving Southern an overall gain of 12 units instead of bumping the Met Cams off completely. I imagine Southern will use them to restore some of the now 8 car Portsmouth Bognor and Littlehampton services to 12.

 

[Robski]

30x 379s return to service with Great Northern, this displaces 25x 387s to Southern. Then Southern give 13x 377s to Southeastern, which can be used to see off more Networker units.

Since Southern are getting 25 387s and giving 13 377s, they could have given 25 377s and seen off all 465/9s - and they’d have probably chucked the 466s too and just changed a load of 10 car diagrams to 8 as per SWR with 456s - therefore getting rid of all the Met Cam networkers without Southern being any worse off than they were before the 387 cascade started.

However, restoring some of the capacity lost since the 455 withdrawal is clearly a bigger priority to the DfT - surprisingly for them - and so they’re giving Southern an overall gain of 12 units instead of bumping the Met Cams off completely. I imagine Southern will use them to restore some of the now 8 car Portsmouth Bognor and Littlehampton services to 12.

Going slightly off topic here, but the number of 387's going south has not been confirmed.

 

[Snow1964]

However, restoring some of the capacity lost since the 455 withdrawal is clearly a bigger priority to the DfT - surprisingly for them - and so they’re giving Southern an overall gain of 12 units instead of bumping the Met Cams off completely.

I thought the extra 12 units (48 vehicles) was indirect replacement for the 19 Southern 313s which weren't replaced 2 years ago, before passenger numbers grew. Rather than the 455s which went 3 years ago

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I thought the extra 12 units (48 vehicles) was indirect replacement for the 19 Southern 313s which weren't replaced 2 years ago, before passenger numbers grew. Rather than the 455s which went 3 years ago

Possibly, same sort of thing, doesn’t really change my point too much

 

[gmaguire]

If you ask me it's a rather shambolic state of affairs that Southeastern are having to resort to this while a full replacement fleet order drags its heels, and Southern likewise can only increase their fleet in this manner.

IMO less shambolic than letting the 379s rot beyond the point of no return. Also gives Southeastern more of what they have for mainline,
and Southern the rolling stock boost they apparently need while still having an all Electrostar fleet.

 

[brad465]

IMO less shambolic than letting the 379s rot beyond the point of no return. Also gives Southeastern more of what they have for mainline,
and Southern the rolling stock boost they apparently need while still having an all Electrostar fleet.

AIUI while Networker mainline operations are going down, they are still not being eliminated. According to @Class 466 at the end of last year, they will remain on the Tunbridge Wells' services, with the Gillingham and Maidstone/Ashford services going all Electrostar. With you on the 379 storage point though.

 

[43066]

AIUI while Networker mainline operations are going down, they are still not being eliminated. According to @Class 466 at the end of last year, they will remain on the Tunbridge Wells' services, with the Gillingham and Maidstone/Ashford services going all Electrostar. With you on the 379 storage point though.

Makes sense as the T-wells services are “Networker dense”.

One of the “new” ex GTR 377 units came through Chislehurst this morning and was still in Southern colours, the same happened with the last 377 transfer a few years ago.

 

[Doomotron]

Makes sense as the T-wells services are “Networker dense”.

One of the “new” ex GTR 377 units came through Chislehurst this morning and was still in Southern colours, the same happened with the last 377 transfer a few years ago.

The 377/1s will be revinyled into SE livery soon.

 

[Class 466]

Makes sense as the T-wells services are “Networker dense”.

One of the “new” ex GTR 377 units came through Chislehurst this morning and was still in Southern colours, the same happened with the last 377 transfer a few years ago.

Unit cycling on the Tunbridge Wells Turnbacks is entirely based on moves starting at & finishing at Grove Park/Slade Green - Both of which do not stable or maintain 375/377s overnight.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The 377/1s will be revinyled into SE livery soon.

Like the way SE can get money for re-livery and changing seat covers yet the 387's have been left in the whatever livery they were delivered in and no doubt 379's will be same.

 

[brad465]

Like the way SE can get money for re-livery and changing seat covers yet the 387's have been left in the whatever livery they were delivered in and no doubt 379's will be same.

Have SE managed to change the seat covers on 377s? For the 5 years I lived in Maidstone up to early 2023 the 377/5s had the shoddy green seats they inherited. The 375s had a very nice makeover, but not the 377s.

 

[SEtrains]

For anyone interested. The 465 scrap drag will be 37800 tomorrow.

 

[brad465]

For anyone interested. The 465 scrap drag will be 37800 tomorrow.

The Grim Reaper's assistant then, if that's a suitable nickname.

 

[Bikeman78]

I just got off another terrible BREL 465. This one was 465157. At least 2 if not 3 out of 4 motors were off. We were crawling out of stations and it tripped multiple times.

Networkers really should go, the sooner the better. They’re obviously falling apart around the edges, especially the BREL/ABB as of late but GEC units have their own set of issues too.

Some of us remember the EPBs going when the Networkers were brand new. The EPBs were way more battered but the motors were indestructible. It will be 30 years on March 31st.

 

[Liam L]

For anyone interested. The 465 scrap drag will be 37800 tomorrow.

Any ideas on which units will be going?

Thanks

 

[Doomotron]

Like the way SE can get money for re-livery and changing seat covers yet the 387's have been left in the whatever livery they were delivered in and no doubt 379's will be same.

Have SE managed to change the seat covers on 377s? For the 5 years I lived in Maidstone up to early 2023 the 377/5s had the shoddy green seats they inherited. The 375s had a very nice makeover, but not the 377s.

The SE 377s have not been refurbished, and I have not seen any mentioned of the 377/1s getting new seat covers. The 377/1s will be the first 377s in SE's fleet to receive an new livery, as the 377/5s only get blue vinyls on the door over the First Capital Connect pink.

 

[FOH]

The SE 377s have not been refurbished, and I have not seen any mentioned of the 377/1s getting new seat covers. The 377/1s will be the first 377s in SE's fleet to receive an new livery, as the 377/5s only get blue vinyls on the door over the First Capital Connect pink.

I always wondered why they mis-matched the body colour. Thank you for explaining!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I always wondered why they mis-matched the body colour. Thank you for explaining!

Laziness and a tight clutch of the purse strings on Govia’s part.

 

[D365]

IMO less shambolic than letting the 379s rot beyond the point of no return. Also gives Southeastern more of what they have for mainline, and Southern the rolling stock boost they apparently need while still having an all Electrostar fleet.

I am not aware that any of the Class 379 units have been condemned.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I am not aware that any of the Class 379 units have been condemned.

That’s the point. He’s saying that while the cascade may seem poor on Southeastern’s end, it as opposed to new orders for Southern and Southeastern prevents 379s being wasted.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Todays 5Q78 is 37800 taking 466032 + 466005 for scrap.

 

[MikeWM]

Todays 5Q78 is 37800 taking 466032 + 466005 for scrap.

466005 is currently (by itself) in the goods loop next to Ely platform 3. Almost thought the 365s were back for a minute

 

[brad465]

Todays 5Q78 is 37800 taking 466032 + 466005 for scrap.

466005 is currently (by itself) in the goods loop next to Ely platform 3. Almost thought the 365s were back for a minute

Sounds like a rather inefficient scrap haul; if all the Networker units in Ely are destined for scrap in the coming weeks, I'd have though up to 8-cars worth could be taken, given both the first moves to store and some of the 365 scrap moves were that length.

 

[43066]

Unit cycling on the Tunbridge Wells Turnbacks is entirely based on moves starting at & finishing at Grove Park/Slade Green - Both of which do not stable or maintain 375/377s overnight.

That makes sense. Presumably the 375 T-wells jobs are done between trips to the coast.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Picture of todays movement courtesy of Phil 'phil60007' on Flickr

37800 hauling 466032 & 466005

Still SE branded I see!

 

[MikeWM]

Sounds like a rather inefficient scrap haul; if all the Networker units in Ely are destined for scrap in the coming weeks, I'd have though up to 8-cars worth could be taken, given both the first moves to store and some of the 365 scrap moves were that length.

Yes (though there were 4 carriages sitting at Ely this morning, so probably it was 466032 with it *as well*, I assumed the units were 4-cars each like 365/465s, apologies for any confusion!)

 

[physics34]

The 377/1s will be revinyled into SE livery soon.

Just madness.. repaint them into new GBR livery now lol

Picture of todays movement courtesy of Phil 'phil60007' on Flickr
View attachment 174457
37800 hauling 466032 & 466005

Still SE branded I see!

Sadly saw them pass me at Newport earlier on. I wouldnt say i had a tear in my eye, but its still sad nonetheless.