National Express Coaches Discussion

[nick291]

Have to say that on Thursday there was a less than acceptable standard of service put out by Galloway on the 717 to Stansted Airport.

The inbound coach arrived at 25 minutes before the departure was due to go out and offloaded passengers and people were waiting for the coach as normal at Ipswich and obviously you assume that there is nothing wrong. About 20 minutes before the coach was due to leave another driver turned up in a staff car I assume to relieve the driver who drove the inbound leg,

At exactly on the departure time, both drivers got out the coach and said the coach cannot operate because someone was sick on board and the coach cannot be used in service because of it. So they were just calling the company. Firstly at this point my wonder was why the coach had been sitting there for 25 minutes and they just chose the company at departure time. And if someone was sick on the coach on the way, surely they could have informed people sooner rather than waiting for the departure time, even if it was to say that the coach would be at least delayed and more information would follow.

Anyway they called the depot and whilst there was a spare coach, there was nobody to drive it, so the solution was that the driver would have to drive the unusable coach all the way back to the depot and then collect a clean coach and then drive it all the way back. They said that this would take at least an hour (and in reality it was over 1.5 hours late by the time it did depart). Whilst they said that taxis would be provided if it was more than 45 minutes, it transpired that this was not the case and we would need to wait for thhe bus..

At the time there was also issues on the Stansted Express and at Cambridge so going via train was not an option. I had to get an Uber in the end to avoid the risk of missing my flight. National Express agreed to refund the ticket cost, but of course didn't want to pay the difference between the fare and the Uber, because theys aid that the delay was only at 1.5 hours.

But some questions remain.

Why does Galloway not have any spare drivers standing by?
Why, knowing the coach was full of sick, already at that point,did operations allow the relief driver drive all the way from the depot to Ipswich in a staff car when he'd be better off driving the spare bus which he ultimately had to drive all the way back for and then back to Ipswich in anyway?
Why did they wait until coach departure time to communicate. I get people needs breaks but a total lack of customer focus.

A really expensive experience.

More to the point does NX have any partner operators in Suffolk/Norfolk? Why couldn't they come in and cover?

 

[Titfield]

More to the point does NX have any partner operators in Suffolk/Norfolk? Why couldn't they come in and cover?

I thought Nexp had their own operations centre at Stansted (to be precise Start Hill which is just outside the airport boundary on the A120).

 

[nick291]

I thought Nexp had their own operations centre at Stansted (to be precise Start Hill which is just outside the airport boundary on the A120).

You're correct, they do own Start Hill. I'm still baffled as to why cover wasn't found in sufficient time at the Ipswich end.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Did you ask these questions to NX when making your complaint?

When I called NX from the airpoirt after getting out of the Uber, they read out the sequence of events that backed up what I said from their internal notes, but I had to hold for so long to call them that I couldnt' stay on the line too long as I had flight to catch, I will pick it up properly back when I am in UK on Monday.

 

[Eyersey468]

I suspect the answer to the spare drivers question is cost

 

[RT4038]

Have to say that on Thursday there was a less than acceptable standard of service put out by Galloway on the 717 to Stansted Airport.

The inbound coach arrived at 25 minutes before the departure was due to go out and offloaded passengers and people were waiting for the coach as normal at Ipswich and obviously you assume that there is nothing wrong. About 20 minutes before the coach was due to leave another driver turned up in a staff car I assume to relieve the driver who drove the inbound leg,

At exactly on the departure time, both drivers got out the coach and said the coach cannot operate because someone was sick on board and the coach cannot be used in service because of it. So they were just calling the company. Firstly at this point my wonder was why the coach had been sitting there for 25 minutes and they just chose the company at departure time. And if someone was sick on the coach on the way, surely they could have informed people sooner rather than waiting for the departure time, even if it was to say that the coach would be at least delayed and more information would follow.

Anyway they called the depot and whilst there was a spare coach, there was nobody to drive it, so the solution was that the driver would have to drive the unusable coach all the way back to the depot and then collect a clean coach and then drive it all the way back. They said that this would take at least an hour (and in reality it was over 1.5 hours late by the time it did depart). Whilst they said that taxis would be provided if it was more than 45 minutes, it transpired that this was not the case and we would need to wait for thhe bus..

At the time there was also issues on the Stansted Express and at Cambridge so going via train was not an option. I had to get an Uber in the end to avoid the risk of missing my flight. National Express agreed to refund the ticket cost, but of course didn't want to pay the difference between the fare and the Uber, because theys aid that the delay was only at 1.5 hours.

But some questions remain.

Why does Galloway not have any spare drivers standing by?
Why, knowing the coach was full of sick, already at that point,did operations allow the relief driver drive all the way from the depot to Ipswich in a staff car when he'd be better off driving the spare bus which he ultimately had to drive all the way back for and then back to Ipswich in anyway?
Why did they wait until coach departure time to communicate. I get people needs breaks but a total lack of customer focus.

A really expensive experience.

So what you don't know is when exactly the sick was discovered by one or both of the drivers? It may well be that this was only found when one of the drivers checked through the coach just before departure time?

 

[F Great Eastern]

So what you don't know is when exactly the sick was discovered by one or both of the drivers? It may well be that this was only found when one of the drivers checked through the coach just before departure time?

Was made aware during the journey to Ipswich is what I heard.

 

[Mwanesh]

I thought Nexp had their own operations centre at Stansted (to be precise Start Hill which is just outside the airport boundary on the A120).

Start Hill does have a few agency drivers.On the issue of spare drivers thats long gone .Very few contractors have a large pool of drivers apart from Edwards and Stagecoach maybe .

 

[RT4038]

Was made aware during the journey to Ipswich is what I heard.

If that is true (and we are not sure of the veracity of what you heard?) then there are some questions to be answered, for sure. We could conjecture all sorts of scenarios of course - was the incoming driver aware of the extent of the soiling before arriving at Ipswich? Presumably the depot was 40 min away so the relief driver would have left in the staff car before arrival of the coach in Ipswich? Did the incoming driver contact the depot about getting a replacement vehicle sent out, and they took 25 min to find they were unable to locate someone to do this? I think it unlikely that the drivers deliberately delayed the coach, even if one or both did not react to the circumstances in the optimum way.

 

[nick291]

Start Hill does have a few agency drivers.On the issue of spare drivers thats long gone .Very few contractors have a large pool of drivers apart from Edwards and Stagecoach maybe .

Helps on routes like the 201 from Swansea-Gatwick, Swansea/Llantrisant driver takes it as far as Bristol, then Bristol driver takes it to Gatwick and back. Happened to me last month on my way to Heathrow.

 

[henryb]

Noticed at the moment that Parks Plymouth seem to have quite poor reliability… at least 2 breakdowns a week + their training vehicle had a fire a week or 2 ago.. any new vehicles on the way for them?

 

[nick291]

Noticed at the moment that Parks Plymouth seem to have quite poor reliability… at least 2 breakdowns a week + their training vehicle had a fire a week or 2 ago.. any new vehicles on the way for them?

Nothing new there then, they were horrendous when I worked for NX 6/7 Years ago. Same with Rochdale depot.

 

[embers25]

Nothing new there then, they were horrendous when I worked for NX 6/7 Years ago. Same with Rochdale depot.

Likely in part down to the way they are driven. With Flix being Berry's awful drivers and even more awful coaches and Nat Exp being Parks, I've switched to the train!

 

[markymark2000]

Likely in part down to the way they are driven. With Flix being Berry's awful drivers and even more awful coaches and Nat Exp being Parks, I've switched to the train!

Flix looks to go to First from April and so you will hopefully be able to come back to the intercity coach network then.

 

[embers25]

Yes I'm counting the days till First take over...a phrase I never thought I'd say lol

 

[nick291]

Likely in part down to the way they are driven. With Flix being Berry's awful drivers and even more awful coaches and Nat Exp being Parks, I've switched to the train!

They were just finishing off with the Plaxton Elites at the time, and managed to get the 333 Blackpool-Bournemouth route when that was a thing. I'm glad that Bristol is Edwards, met a few rude drivers but same as anywhere tbh.

Flix looks to go to First from April and so you will hopefully be able to come back to the intercity coach network then.

I'm looking forward to seeing how that'll work. AFAIK only one bay in Bristol Bus & Coach station is used by Flix.

 

[route101]

Likely in part down to the way they are driven. With Flix being Berry's awful drivers and even more awful coaches and Nat Exp being Parks, I've switched to the train!

In what way are drivers rude? I find it funny that Parks of Hamilton still do NX work yet the original Hamilton depot does not.

 

[nick291]

In what way are drivers rude? I find it funny that Parks of Hamilton still do NX work yet the original Hamilton depot does not.

I'm guessing you were meant to reply to my comment? If so just the way they come across and attitude towards customers. Not all drivers, just the occasional one or two.

 

[Wilko82]

Likely in part down to the way they are driven. With Flix being Berry's awful drivers and even more awful coaches and Nat Exp being Parks, I've switched to the train!

I have to agree but not just how in how they were driven, the whole of the Parks setup is a proper cowboy operation. Its no surprise that Bruce's took over their Scottish NX operation and Selywyns the North west of England runs, despite having to run empty to Blackpool/Rochdale etc. The way in which Parks run their services means that the vehicles and drivers are pushed to the limit, with no time for maintenance for the coaches and the duties that drivers operate mean that they were pushed to the limit with very little leeway for traffic delays en route. From my experience they have a huge turnover of staff and many have been registered as 'sick' due to the stress they are put under.

They were just finishing off with the Plaxton Elites at the time, and managed to get the 333 Blackpool-Bournemouth route when that was a thing. I'm glad that Bristol is Edwards, met a few rude drivers but same as anywhere tbh.

The way in which they ran the 333 after taking it over from John Shaw, the Traveller's Choice backs up my above point. From memory Shaw's always changed iver drivers at Digbeth, so if there was any delays to the service on arrival into Birmingham it would generally always depart on time. However, as said above Park's thought they knew better, so would run their drivers hours to the limit by meaning the drivers would require a break in Birmingham regardless, so any delays to the service would not be made up.

I remember one such example on a southband 333 run where the driver simply didn't have a clue, and by her own admission didn't know where to go as she was a Rochdale driver who hadn't driven south of Birmingham before, despite claiming she was a senior/training driver. On her way out of Birmingham before joining the M5 she took a wrong turning down a residential street instead of staying on the A456, on arrival into Bristol she overshot the entrance to the bus/coach station, then overshot the junction of the A37/A39 just north of Shepton Mallet, had to then ask for directions as to how to get out of Yeovil, before then taking a wrong turn in Weymouth before I got so annoyed I had to to tell her where to go.


Unfortunately I don't think that there is any other operator in Devon/Cornwall which wants to take the NX operation on down there, especially at the low rate that Park's no doubt operate it at, so therefore essentially they have NX over a barrel. I know Edwards run the 104/106, but that works well for them as they can interwork the 2 services, but you can't really expect them to take on the rest.

In what way are drivers rude? I find it funny that Parks of Hamilton still do NX work yet the original Hamilton depot does not.

As mentioned above in my previous comment I certainly don't find it that strange. The original Scottish services that were operated by the Hamilton depot have been replaced by Bruce's who are a far superior operator. However down in Devon/Cornwall they essentially have a monopoly over the services as there is no other alternative and viable operator for all the services. The 501/504 day services, the 404/406 night services to London plus the 101/102 services to Birmingham require a significant output, which no one else in the area can take on at such a low cost that Park's and their cowboy operation is willing to do. I blame National Express for allowing them to cut corners and get away with it.

 

[embers25]

There is a lot of dead mileage for many drivers too as they often change at Taunton and drive back in the car to Plymoith.
They used to do the 404 Penzance to London then a Manchester service with the same drivers. Not sure how they were awake from London as they changed over at Bristol Airport at 0130 and never slept and just chatted the whole way from Plymouth to London. Even on the 404 rumble strip could often be heard.

Berrys drivers on Flix are more awake but have zero customer service skills and drive very aggressively in London. They also complain every time at changeover in Taunton about the job...always great to be woken up at 2am to complaining drivers lol.

Thank God the Night Riveria is a viable option for many of my trips.

 

[nick291]

Its no surprise that Bruce's took over their Scottish NX operation and Selywyns the North west of England runs, despite having to run empty to Blackpool/Rochdale etc.

I've only travelled on Bruce's twice and got to view their depot on the 539, double drivers get off at the depot in Salsburgh and shunt driver took it over to Edinburgh from there.

Berrys drivers on Flix are more awake but have zero customer service skills and drive very aggressively in London. They also complain every time at changeover in Taunton about the job...always great to be woken up at 2am to complaining drivers lol.

Thank God the Night Riveria is a viable option for many of my trips.

I applied to work for Berry's back in 2018 as a courier. Got to do a day with them on the SF1 from Taunton to London and back, the Superfast drivers and services seem to be the only part of the operation they care about. Aren't they also supposed to be coming off of Flixbus work soon?

 

[PG]

no one else in the area can take on at such a low cost that Park's and their cowboy operation is willing to do. I blame National Express for allowing them to cut corners and get away with it.

NX are probably not too worried, after all its not their drivers or O licence at risk despite the coaches carrying their name.

There is a lot of dead mileage for many drivers too as they often change at Taunton and drive back in the car to Plymoith.

I wonder if this, not insignificant, dead mileage in the car is being recorded correctly?

 

[Wilko82]

NX are probably not too worried, after all its not their drivers or O licence at risk despite the coaches carrying their name.

I wonder if this, not insignificant, dead mileage in the car is being recorded correctly?

Spot on, NX won't be too worried, as they know it won't be easy finding another local SW operator, which is why Park's have run the majority of Cornwall services for so long despite the late running of so many services. NX probably know that they can't ride too roughshod over Park's.

As you say, there is a lot of dead mileage using the pool car (Plymouth to Taunton is about a 150 mile round trip) so a two and a half hour round trip minimum, before legal breaks is quite extensive.

 

[henryb]

NX are probably not too worried, after all its not their drivers or O licence at risk despite the coaches carrying their name.

I wonder if this, not insignificant, dead mileage in the car is being recorded correctly?

In what way?

Spot on, NX won't be too worried as they know it won't be easy finding another local SW operator, which is why Park's have run the majority of Cornwall services for so long despite the late running of so many services. NX probably know that they can't ride too roughshod over Park's. As you say there is a lot of dead mileage using the pool car (Plymouth to Taunton is about a 150 mile round trip) so a two and a half hour round trip minimum, before legal breaks is quite extensive.

Dartline/go south west could be looking to expand - only alternative big enough

 

[PG]

I wonder if this, not insignificant, dead mileage in the car is being recorded correctly?

In what way?

I think that manual, i.e. paper, recording of the time between booking on at the Plymouth depot and arriving at the relief point in Taunton is necessary. This IMO should be recorded as other work which, unless the pool car(s) is fitted with a tachograph, won't be being registered on the drivers tachograph card.

 

[henryb]

I have to agree but not just how in how they were driven, the whole of the Parks setup is a proper cowboy operation. Its no surprise that Bruce's took over their Scottish NX operation and Selywyns the North west of England runs, despite having to run empty to Blackpool/Rochdale etc. The way in which Parks run their services means that the vehicles and drivers are pushed to the limit, with no time for maintenance for the coaches and the duties that drivers operate mean that they were pushed to the limit with very little leeway for traffic delays en route. From my experience they have a huge turnover of staff and many have been registered as 'sick' due to the stress they are put under.


The way in which they ran the 333 after taking it over from John Shaw, the Traveller's Choice backs up my above point. From memory Shaw's always changed iver drivers at Digbeth, so if there was any delays to the service on arrival into Birmingham it would generally always depart on time. However, as said above Park's thought they knew better, so would run their drivers hours to the limit by meaning the drivers would require a break in Birmingham regardless, so any delays to the service would not be made up.

I remember one such example on a southband 333 run where the driver simply didn't have a clue, and by her own admission didn't know where to go as she was a Rochdale driver who hadn't driven south of Birmingham before, despite claiming she was a senior/training driver. On her way out of Birmingham before joining the M5 she took a wrong turning down a residential street instead of staying on the A456, on arrival into Bristol she overshot the entrance to the bus/coach station, then overshot the junction of the A37/A39 just north of Shepton Mallet, had to then ask for directions as to how to get out of Yeovil, before then taking a wrong turn in Weymouth before I got so annoyed I had to to tell her where to go.


Unfortunately I don't think that there is any other operator in Devon/Cornwall which wants to take the NX operation on down there, especially at the low rate that Park's no doubt operate it at, so therefore essentially they have NX over a barrel. I know Edwards run the 104/106, but that works well for them as they can interwork the 2 services, but you can't really expect them to take on the rest.



As mentioned above in my previous comment I certainly don't find it that strange. The original Scottish services that were operated by the Hamilton depot have been replaced by Bruce's who are a far superior operator. However down in Devon/Cornwall they essentially have a monopoly over the services as there is no other alternative and viable operator for all the services. The 501/504 day services, the 404/406 night services to London plus the 101/102 services to Birmingham require a significant output, which no one else in the area can take on at such a low cost that Park's and their cowboy operation is willing to do. I blame National Express for allowing them to cut corners and get away with it.

Can’t comment on the accuracy of the claims but people are complaining about the drivers on twitter of the 501 for being agressive/racist

 

[nick291]

Dartline/go south west could be looking to expand - only alternative big enough

Go North East still operate NX work right? I'm sure Go South Coast would be willing to try.

 

[henryb]

Go North East still operate NX work right? I'm sure Go South Coast would be willing to try.

Go North East do. Go South West have their own coach hire company + Dartline so certainly have the resources

 

[Stena Galloway]

I think that manual, i.e. paper, recording of the time between booking on at the Plymouth depot and arriving at the relief point in Taunton is necessary. This IMO should be recorded as other work which, unless the pool car(s) is fitted with a tachograph, won't be being registered on the drivers tachograph card.

Other work can be put through as a manual entry on your tacho card when you put it into the tacho machine.

 

[PG]

Other work can be put through as a manual entry on your tacho card when you put it into the tacho machine.

I stand corrected, thanks. Hopefully this is what is occurring in respect of these lengthy car journeys.