Is the extension to the Borders Railway back on track?

[och aye]

Press release from Scottish Borders Council regarding the extension of the Borders Railway.

Extension to Borders Railway back on track – Scottish Borders Council

Approval has been issued to look at the next phase of work to explore the case for extending the Borders Railway to Carlisle.

www.scotborders.gov.uk

Extension to Borders Railway back on track

Ten years on from the opening of the railway from Edinburgh to Tweedbank in the Borders, approval has been issued to start the next phase of work to explore the case for extending it to Carlisle.


Following recent confirmation from the Department for Transport and drawing on the first tranche of the up to £10m committed by the Scottish Government and UK Government through the Borderlands Inclusive Growth Deal, this stage unlocks the funding to appoint a Project Manager for work to assess the benefits and challenges of extending the line beyond Tweedbank.
The development of the business case for the Borders Railway is a key project within the Borderlands Deal which recognises the potential of such a link to support economic growth.
Following the success of the re-instatement of the Borders Railway to Tweedbank, an extension could improve transport links to towns such as Hawick, which continue to face the effects of recent economic downturns, as well as offering improved connectivity for tourists, commuters and residents alike. Extending the railway through the heart of the Borderlands could also provide more environmentally friendly transport connections for the places and towns along the route.

UK Government Scotland Office Minister Kirsty McNeill​

"Growth is a priority mission for the UK Government and we've been clear that the £450 million Borderlands Inclusive Growth Deal spanning southern Scotland and northern England is vital to achieving this.

"It's great news that the UK Department for Transport has now confirmed up to £5 million towards feasibility work to explore the potential to extend the Borders Railway from Tweedbank to Carlisle. We look forward to working with deal partners as the feasibility work progresses.

"The UK Government is focused on delivering our Plan for Change to turbo-charge economic growth and deliver a decade of national renewal and opportunity for all. This includes investing nearly £1.4 billion into important local projects across Scotland over the next ten years, including the borders."

​

Cabinet Secretary for Transport Fiona Hyslop​

“The Scottish Government believes in strong investment in public transport and looks forward to the 10th anniversary of the Borders railway later this year, which will be a celebration of the transformation it has delivered to this region.
“We remain committed to providing up to £5 million for this business case work as part of our £65 million investment in the region through the Borderlands deal. We welcome the news that the UK Government will now match our commitment of up to £5 million for a feasibility study to extend the Borders Railway and are supportive of partners securing a project manager with the technical expertise to deliver the project well.”

Rail Minister Peter Lord Hendy​

“We are working to improve rail connectivity for passengers and as part of the Government’s Plan for Change are investing in transport infrastructure, driving growth, jobs and housing across our communities.
“I’m pleased to commit to the progression of the Borders Railway extension, which would open up the route for more people to explore the region’s picturesque landscapes and rich heritage, and I look forward to seeing how the proposal develops.”

​

Councillor Euan Jardine Leader of Scottish Borders Council​

"Thanks to the unwavering support of the Borderlands Partnership and their tireless campaign, as well as the crucial funding and commitment from both the Scottish Government and the UK Government, we are making significant strides towards the Borders Railway extension.
“We have already seen the positive impact the Waverley line has brought to the Borders. This collaborative effort demonstrates the power of partnership in driving positive change and transforming our region for the better."

Councillor Scott Hamilton Executive Member for Economic Growth and Developing the Borders​

“With the confirmation of funding from both the UK Government and the Scottish Government, we are thrilled to see work looking at the proposed extension of the Borders Railway moving forward.
“This landmark project represents a significant step in improving connectivity and economic growth for our region. We commend the commitment shown by both governments and the relentless efforts of our community and partners in making this a reality. It is time to get moving and bring this vision to life for the benefit of all residents in the Scottish Borders and communities in the south of Scotland and north of England."

 

[D Williams]

Knowing nothing of the area whatsoever can I ask what would be the intended passenger traffic. From where to where, how many and when? Some sort of outline business case must have been made in order to get this far. The population of Scotland is about 5,500,000. You could run to a couple of sausage rolls each for this money.

 

[waverley47]

Knowing nothing of the area whatsoever can I ask what would be the intended passenger traffic. From where to where, how many and when? Some sort of outline business case must have been made in order to get this far. The population of Scotland is about 5,500,000. You could run to a couple of sausage rolls each for this money.

There is no intended passenger traffic of any size that warrants a line. There is no freight potential, and despite the hollering, no desire for a two and a half hour diversionary route to Carlisle either.

We did a business case in 2004, which justified a line only as far as a 'Melrose Parkway,' which for infrastructure issues became Tweedbank. Even then, we fudged the numbers somewhat outrageously.

 

[Trainman40083]

If this line were in England or Wales, it would have been discounted years ago...Can't see how it would even cover it's costs. That all said. I recall being involved with the supply of concrete troughing for the first section. I did ask if it would be big enough, if they ever extended the line.

 

[Freightmaster]

If this line were in England or Wales, it would have been discounted years ago...Can't see how it would even cover it's costs.

Exactly.

Projects such as Penrith to Keswick and Colne to Skipton probably have a (slightly) better business case,
and they don't have a chance in hell of being funded!



MARK

 

[Trainman40083]

Exactly.

Projects such as Penrith to Keswick and Colne to Skipton probably have a (slightly) better business case,
and they don't have a chance in hell of being funded!



MARK

Exactly indeed..I guess Skipton to Colne could score in terms of extra trans Pennine capacity, giving East Lancashire residents access to the West Yorkshire employment opportunities. But it shut for a reason......as does most of the other lines closed. For some, circumstances have changed. For most, they haven't.

 

[cle]

Exactly.

Projects such as Penrith to Keswick and Colne to Skipton probably have a (slightly) better business case,
and they don't have a chance in hell of being funded!



MARK

To be clear, I don't think Borders to Carlisle will happen.

But it could have more use than some of the branches.

It's a third England-Scotland route for contingency/diversions, it has freight potential, it connects into a significant place (Edinburgh) and the reopening to date has been a success. Plus in addition to slow services, you might see some faster ones (in stopping pattern, line speed will never be quick).

So it won't be inter city speed but could be a longer, semi-fast regional service - but likely an hourly Carlisle-Edinburgh service though, with peak extras on the current open part.

 

[Bill57p9]

Maybe, just maybe, extending the Borders Railway as far as Hawick might be viable, but I really can't see any further being viable. Even then the Melrose bypass was built on the old railway formation.
In terms of route resilience between England and Scotland, even the Glasgow South Western is largely overlooked these days, with no passenger diversions that way for several years and little freight traffic other than during planned engineering works, despite the potential to relieve capacity on the WCML by taking diesel hauled traffic.

 

[The Planner]

To be clear, I don't think Borders to Carlisle will happen.

But it could have more use than some of the branches.

It's a third England-Scotland route for contingency/diversions,

Then its failed already if that is a major selling point.

it has freight potential, it connects into a significant place (Edinburgh) and the reopening to date has been a success. Plus in addition to slow services, you might see some faster ones (in stopping pattern, line speed will never be quick).

What freight?

So it won't be inter city speed but could be a longer, semi-fast regional service - but likely an hourly Carlisle-Edinburgh service though, with peak extras on the current open part.

Its not going to be semifast, it will stop at any new station built plus all the existing ones.

 

[Killingworth]

A quick look at OS maps showing contours, roads and what's left of the old track bed plus density of urban development says this is a non-starter. No need to spend millions to prove that.

Use the money to make real improvements to still active lines that will benefit more users more quickly. Improving signalling, lengthening a few platforms, relaying old junctions may improve reliability and reduce journey times but won't make good headlines.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Cycleway on the old trackbed from Carlisle to Hawick please… that would be lovely. And cheap in comparison.

 

[Snex]

A quick look at OS maps showing contours, roads and what's left of the old track bed plus density of urban development says this is a non-starter. No need to spend millions to prove that.

Use the money to make real improvements to still active lines that will benefit more users more quickly. Improving signalling, lengthening a few platforms, relaying old junctions may improve reliability and reduce journey times but won't make good headlines.

Since it seems to be focusing on the borders, the money would be better spent on roads imo. Bypasses of Lauder and Selkirk being the most noticeable ones which would improve the towns for people living there rather than having a major road running down the high street.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I assume the following statements and announcements are just aimed at keeping people who dream about this Borders Railway extension happy. Surely the ministers must know what answer any feasibility study will give. I wonder what the Rail Minister's private views are on this. Surely if they want economic growth they should invest in expanding capacity including some four tracking and increasing the electric power supply on the East Coast Mainline between Edinburgh and Newcastle and running more trains and longer trains on that route including new 250 metre long 600 seat bi-mode trains for the hourly Cross Country Edinburgh to Plymouth service.

Extension to Borders Railway back on track – Scottish Borders Council

Approval has been issued to look at the next phase of work to explore the case for extending the Borders Railway to Carlisle.

www.scotborders.gov.uk

UK Government Scotland Office Minister Kirsty McNeill
"Growth is a priority mission for the UK Government and we've been clear that the £450 million Borderlands Inclusive Growth Deal spanning southern Scotland and northern England is vital to achieving this.
"It's great news that the UK Department for Transport has now confirmed up to £5 million towards feasibility work to explore the potential to extend the Borders Railway from Tweedbank to Carlisle. We look forward to working with deal partners as the feasibility work progresses.
"The UK Government is focused on delivering our Plan for Change to turbo-charge economic growth and deliver a decade of national renewal and opportunity for all. This includes investing nearly £1.4 billion into important local projects across Scotland over the next ten years, including the borders."

Rail Minister Peter Lord Hendy
“We are working to improve rail connectivity for passengers and as part of the Government’s Plan for Change are investing in transport infrastructure, driving growth, jobs and housing across our communities.
“I’m pleased to commit to the progression of the Borders Railway extension, which would open up the route for more people to explore the region’s picturesque landscapes and rich heritage, and I look forward to seeing how the proposal develops.”

 

[Millisle]

It is a game of political chicken. Neither government wants to be seen as the one to ditch the scheme, rational or not. It is worth £5m each, to kick the problem down the track, as it were.

 

[Some guy]

Exactly.

Projects such as Penrith to Keswick and Colne to Skipton probably have a (slightly) better business case,
and they don't have a chance in hell of being funded!



MARK

Colne to skipton is a definite that should happen it’s another direct route between Lancashire and Yorkshire something there’s only 3 if including the clitheroe branch. It Would open loads of job opportunities across both counties, a new freight route, direct services with skipton and possibly further and Blackpool. It’s a win win

 

[deltic08]

Colne to skipton is a definite that should happen it’s another direct route between Lancashire and Yorkshire something there’s only 3 if including the clitheroe branch. It Would open loads of job opportunities across both counties, a new freight route, direct services with skipton and possibly further and Blackpool. It’s a win win

I totally agree and much quicker than via Bradford, Halifax and Copy Pit to Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Colne to skipton is a definite that should happen it’s another direct route between Lancashire and Yorkshire something there’s only 3 if including the clitheroe branch. It Would open loads of job opportunities across both counties, a new freight route, direct services with skipton and possibly further and Blackpool. It’s a win win

You obviously haven't read the multiple discussions on here which have repeatedly concluded that despite the continuous wittering of its supporters Colne-Skipton is in fact a complete no-hoper. The search function here unfortunately doesn't work too well but I would suggest you find and read those discussions.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we drop the discussion about Skipton to Colne (and other proposed reopenings) please - if anyone wants to resurrect that then please start a new thread and leave this one for discussion of the Borders Railway.

thanks

 

[waverley47]

It is a game of political chicken. Neither government wants to be seen as the one to ditch the scheme, rational or not. It is worth £5m each, to kick the problem down the track, as it were.

Actually from speaking with old friends inside ScotGov this morning, I think this is seen as ten million quid well spent to kill the project forever.

 

[David M]

I could save them the 'up to' £10m.

There are neither economic nor social benefits to be had by extending the line from Tweedbank to Carlisle. South of Hawick, population density is so small as to make such an extension prohibitively expensive.

Economic and social arguments can be made for an extension from Tweedbank to Hawick, however, in the present financial climate, the cost of this extension could not, currently, be funded.

End of report.

There are significant obstacles in the way of this extension, including:

1. How does the line get from Tweedbank to the Melrose bypass?
2. How do motorists access the car park at Tweedbank - does the line go over or under the access point, or does a new entrance and exit require to be built?
3. How does the line continue from the bypass through Melrose - is this single track?
4. Residents in Melrose would be rightly annoyed were the town not to be served - how can the current unused station be adapted to be accessibile?
5. How does the line then get from Melrose through Newtown St Boswells and on to Hawick?
6. Is it proposed to electrify the line from Newcraighall to Hawick?
7. Three coach trains are often standing room only in both directions - additional Hawick etc traffic would require additional coaches - where will those be found, however they are powered?
8. It would not be unreasonable to suggest that Saturday services would require to be half-hourly all day - currently, 6 coach sets are often standing room only leaving Waverley on a Saturday evening if rugby has been on.

Conclusion? Not going to happen in my lifetime, a waste of up to £10m, sorry.

 

[Millisle]

Actually from speaking with old friends inside ScotGov this morning, I think this is seen as ten million quid well spent to kill the project forever.

Is there any interest in Hawick or is that the whole thing?

 

[SRHarris]

I think it very unlikely that any government would invest such a large sum (a Billion ish?) on running it through all the way to Carlisle in one reopening project based upon current traffic and population levels.

But I think extending the current (highly successful) single line regional service to Hawick, which has the only significant population centre, and only needing a more modest 20 miles of new track, might be a more economically palatable and justifiable next step, based upon socio-economic grounds and so has some potential to move forward.

In addition to a town centre Hawick station, a parkway station to the West of the town (like Tweedbank) with convenient, secure and ample parking, might prove attractive to funnel commuters from an extended borders catchment area, such as Langholm, which would not be connected even if the full route was built.

To keep costs down to an acceptable price tag, the project would need to be designed as a regional branch service only to minimalist specification to allow a basic hourly or half-hourly service

For example, not building / modifying structures passively for future full route reinstatement/double track/electrification etc.

If ever the Hawick project did go-ahead, battery technology would have obsoleted the current continuous electrification practice, with perhaps only small parts of the line needing to be wired (around stations and long inclines).

The new service would continue to use the existing Tweedbank rolling stock and the paths into Waverley, (although more sets would of course be needed), so would dovetail in fairly smoothly.

Unless there is some political drive to solidify the Scotland and England Union through improved connectivity or future long distance HS2 traffic starts to eat into WCML Carlisle-Carstairs line capacity, I don't think the Carlisle extension would ever happen in these times.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think it very unlikely that any government would invest such a large sum (a Billion ish?) on running it through all the way to Carlisle in one reopening project based upon current traffic and population levels.

I can’t see it being less than £2bn.

But I think extending the current (highly successful) single line regional service to Hawick, which has the only significant population centre, and only needing a more modest 20 miles of new track,

That would be the thick end of a billion, not least how you actually get into Hawick.

Not going to happen.

 

[stevieinselby]

That would be the thick end of a billion, not least how you actually get into Hawick.

If you're only worried about getting into Hawick and not through Hawick then the route in from the north is fairly unobstructed, and there looks to be space to build a station behind the leisure centre.

 

[Killingworth]

I think it very unlikely that any government would invest such a large sum (a Billion ish?) on running it through all the way to Carlisle in one reopening project based upon current traffic and population levels.

But I think extending the current (highly successful) single line regional service to Hawick, which has the only significant population centre, and only needing a more modest 20 miles of new track, might be a more economically palatable and justifiable next step, based upon socio-economic grounds and so has some potential to move forward.

In addition to a town centre Hawick station, a parkway station to the West of the town (like Tweedbank) with convenient, secure and ample parking, might prove attractive to funnel commuters from an extended borders catchment area, such as Langholm, which would not be connected even if the full route was built.

To keep costs down to an acceptable price tag, the project would need to be designed as a regional branch service only to minimalist specification to allow a basic hourly or half-hourly service

For example, not building / modifying structures passively for future full route reinstatement/double track/electrification etc.

If ever the Hawick project did go-ahead, battery technology would have obsoleted the current continuous electrification practice, with perhaps only small parts of the line needing to be wired (around stations and long inclines).

The new service would continue to use the existing Tweedbank rolling stock and the paths into Waverley, (although more sets would of course be needed), so would dovetail in fairly smoothly.

Unless there is some political drive to solidify the Scotland and England Union through improved connectivity or future long distance HS2 traffic starts to eat into WCML Carlisle-Carstairs line capacity, I don't think the Carlisle extension would ever happen in these times.

This cannot be serious. 20 miles by a circuitous route to reach a town with 13,512* inhabitants in 2022. The old track bed round Melrose is now the A6091 by-pass.

My OS map tells me this route used to enter Hawick from the east so park and ride to the west is a total non-starter. The site of the old railway bridge across the Teviot is now occupied by the new road bridge.

Langholm, population 1,740* in 2022, is nearer Carlisle than Hawick.

This is a dead end project that should never have got started. It's dreaming. Tweedbank is a good compromise terminus.

*Population statistics interest me. In Sheffield my ward in council elections has a population of 17,000 and a railway station with one well used train an hour in each direction but we feel we need 2.

 

[Bald Rick]

If you're only worried about getting into Hawick and not through Hawick then the route in from the north is fairly unobstructed, and there looks to be space to build a station behind the leisure centre.

I look forward to the headlines:

New Railway to destroy popular lesiure walking trail
There was outrage today when it was revealed that the proposed new railway to Hawick would be built on the route of the Waverley Walk. Local campaigner, Mac MacDonald said: “It’s outrageous. This walking trail is used by hundreds of people every day, and is very popular with tourists - I spoke to a coiple only last week who had travelled from Australia to enjoy our wonderful Borderland walking. And now it is proposed to bulldoze it so that a handful of people can save a few minutes on a trip to Edinburgh.”

 

[weeklycommuter]

They should concentrate on adding capacity to the existing Borders Railway by looking at improvements to the infrastructure such as converting some single track to double track and getting more seats in total on the train service and improving bus services from Tweedbank to other places. There is no point whatsoever in looking at extending the Borders Railway tracks and train service beyond Tweedbank. A well run reliable bus service which is integrated with connecting train services is fine as a way of extending the public transport service provided by the railway to a wider area where buses can provide enough capacity. In Switzerland post bus services are integrated with train services to extend public transport to a wider area. Reopening the Borders Railway from Edinburgh to Tweedbank was very useful in getting high capacity public transport to the heart of the Borders but buses can surely do the job beyond Tweedbank.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Actually from speaking with old friends inside ScotGov this morning, I think this is seen as ten million quid well spent to kill the project forever.

I fear your old friends are deluded. No railway reopening idea is ever killed forever. Campaigning will continue regardless.

 

[waverley47]

I fear your old friends are deluded. No railway reopening idea is ever killed forever. Campaigning will continue regardless.

I fear you're right, and that ten million quid would be best spent razing the old route until there is nothing left to restore.

 

[Killingworth]

I fear your old friends are deluded. No railway reopening idea is ever killed forever. Campaigning will continue regardless.

An absolute waste of scarce resources both financial and in planning for a proposal that is demolished free of charge in my post 25 above.