Merseytravel Saveaway issues

[DJH1971]

Got an all zone Merseytravel Saveaway this morning from my local train station which is printed in a rail ticket from.

The conditions on the Merseytravel website states it is valid on all public train, bus and ferry services starting and ending in Merseyside.

Just got on an Arriva bus in Southport and the driver didn't want to accept the ticket as 'it's a rail ticket' when it clearly states 'Merseytravel Saveaway All Areas'.

This is not the first time this has happened either.

Has anyone else had this trouble, as the bus drivers don't seem to be playing by the rules set out by Merseytravel.

 

[Haywain]

the driver didn't want to accept the ticket

But did after you pointed out what it was?

as the bus drivers don't seem to be playing by the rules set out by Merseytravel.

Or just this one driver?

 

[DJH1971]

But did after you pointed out what it was?

Or just this one driver?

He did, but was still very reluctant to accept it

 

[Djgr]

Got an all zone Merseytravel Saveaway this morning from my local train station which is printed in a rail ticket from.

The conditions on the Merseytravel website states it is valid on all public train, bus and ferry services starting and ending in Merseyside.

Just got on an Arriva bus in Southport and the driver didn't want to accept the ticket as 'it's a rail ticket' when it clearly states 'Merseytravel Saveaway All Areas'.

This is not the first time this has happened either.

Has anyone else had this trouble, as the bus drivers don't seem to be playing by the rules set out by Merseytravel.

Roll on bus franchising!

 

[JBuchananGB]

Validity on the Arriva bus in Southport would depend on your intended destination. If the intended destination is in the Merseytravel area then the Saveaway is valid, even if the bus travels outside the Merseytravel area en route.
An example of a valid journey would be Southport to Maghull on bus 300. But you could not get off the bus in Halsall in Lancashire.
If the destination is outside the area, such as Ormskirk or Wigan for example, the Saveaway would not be valid.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Most Saveaways are issued on smart card, so the driver will just be unfamiliar. I’ve had it a couple of times on the 1/X1 between Birkenhead and Liverpool. Not had issues once I’ve explained what it is though.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Given Saveaways can be purchased from the main Ticket Office (and presumably TVMs) at Lime Street, it would be hoped that bus drivers would be aware they can be issued on orange stock - though only on CCST, not Paper Roll.

Slightly annoyingly, there isn't a "Merseyside PlusBus" ticket, with separate ones for both Liverpool and Birkenhead. Those can be issued on both CCST and PRT.

 

[smsm1]

When I was last in Liverpool I was told that they had to be issued on the local variant of ITSO card. They would accept the many other variants or even the kid's Scottish concessionary passes, which are ITSO cards. At least with the smart card it's up to the trucker machine to accept our refuse them with generally less acceptance issues compared to the paper tickets.

 

[gray1404]

When I was last in Liverpool I was told that they had to be issued on the local variant of ITSO card. They would accept the many other variants or even the kid's Scottish concessionary passes, which are ITSO cards. At least with the smart card it's up to the trucker machine to accept our refuse them with generally less acceptance issues compared to the paper tickets.

It is Merseyrail stations who have been told to issue them on smart cards. All other train companies can issue them on orange stock.

 

[Starmill]

When I was last in Liverpool I was told that they had to be issued on the local variant of ITSO card. They would accept the many other variants or even the kid's Scottish concessionary passes, which are ITSO cards. At least with the smart card it's up to the trucker machine to accept our refuse them with generally less acceptance issues compared to the paper tickets.

Northern ticket offices usually don't load them to ITSO. Presumably because they're not able to, but I don't know.

 

[smsm1]

Joys of a lack of consistency.

The ferry terminals couldn't issue the savaway ticket, but could read the smart card via tablet and then printed out a ticket for us to use.

 

[185143]

I once had Merseyrail staff at Liverpool Central tell me my PRT Saveaway was for Sheffield (I had purchased it from a TPE conductor who I presume was based there?), and it couldn't possibly be valid to go from Liverpool Central to Chester as it was cheaper than a single ticket. They eventually reluctantly let me travel with it.

Sadly I'm not joking. So it's certainly not just bus drivers!

 

[TUC]

Roll on bus franchising!

How does that help ignorance?

 

[ServerHoster]

Roll on bus franchising!

When I use a Greater Manchester Wayfarer, the bee network drivers have no idea what it is. So I don’t think franchising will change anything.

 

[A Challenge]

Slightly annoyingly, there isn't a "Merseyside PlusBus" ticket, with separate ones for both Liverpool and Birkenhead. Those can be issued on both CCST and PRT.

PRT issued plusbus is something I'm not looking forward to having to use, luckily last time I bought a Plusbus (by chance a Liverpool one) Avanti did issue it to CCST.

 

[Mark lloyd]

Got an all zone Merseytravel Saveaway this morning from my local train station which is printed in a rail ticket from.

The conditions on the Merseytravel website states it is valid on all public train, bus and ferry services starting and ending in Merseyside.

Just got on an Arriva bus in Southport and the driver didn't want to accept the ticket as 'it's a rail ticket' when it clearly states 'Merseytravel Saveaway All Areas'.

This is not the first time this has happened either.

Has anyone else had this trouble, as the bus drivers don't seem to be playing by the rules set out by Merseytravel.

As a recent ex arriva driver Southport your ticket is valid all areas or the zone indicated if saveaway is printed on rail ticket for bus travel within merseyside if you have been refused and had to pay get back to customer services and complain for refund. Also another member advised this ticket is not valid between maghul and West lancs area this is incorrect as arriva sell Merseyside tickets within in this area on service 300 and not West Lancashire fares this route is permitted

 

[Peakrider]

Validity on the Arriva bus in Southport would depend on your intended destination. If the intended destination is in the Merseytravel area then the Saveaway is valid, even if the bus travels outside the Merseytravel area en route.
An example of a valid journey would be Southport to Maghull on bus 300. But you could not get off the bus in Halsall in Lancashire.
If the destination is outside the area, such as Ormskirk or Wigan for example, the Saveaway would not be valid.

Thanks for that - I’ve always wondered about the 300 that wanders into Lancashire on the way!

 

[185143]

As a recent ex arriva driver Southport your ticket is valid all areas or the zone indicated if saveaway is printed on rail ticket for bus travel within merseyside if you have been refused and had to pay get back to customer services and complain for refund. Also another member advised this ticket is not valid between maghul and West lancs area this is incorrect as arriva sell Merseyside tickets within in this area on service 300 and not West Lancashire fares this route is permitted

With no disrespect (unless I'm wrong in which case gladly correct me), Arriva sell Merseyside bus tickets in the area of the route that isn't Merseyside. Do you mean just Arriva's Merseyside tickets or Merseytravel tickets too?

If they sell, and are instructed to sell, Merseytravel bus tickets to someone boarding within the county of Lancashire then a Saveaway surely is unquestionably accepted, even if not intended to be valid there.

If they only sell Arriva day tickets, then it's less clear.

 

[Peakrider]

It is Merseyrail stations who have been told to issue them on smart cards. All other train companies can issue them on orange stock.

It’s a bit of a coincidence that Merseyrail stopped issuing Savaways on paper tickets and began insisting on ITSO cards at the exact same time they introduced their own Daysaver paper tickets valid only on Northern & Wirral lines! Priced 10-20p less but with much less validity.
Call me cynical but it seems a scam to keep all of the revenue by making Savaways less appealing eg to anyone without the £1 Metro/Walrus card.
It’s too much of a coincidence.

I once had Merseyrail staff at Liverpool Central tell me my PRT Saveaway was for Sheffield (I had purchased it from a TPE conductor who I presume was based there?), and it couldn't possibly be valid to go from Liverpool Central to Chester as it was cheaper than a single ticket. They eventually reluctantly let me travel with it.

Sadly I'm not joking. So it's certainly not just bus drivers!

Some Liverpool Central staff are known throughout Merseyside for their stroppiness. Famously so. The place is like a job creation scheme with staff far outnumbering passengers most evenings.

 

[cool110]

It’s a bit of a coincidence that Merseyrail stopped issuing Savaways on paper tickets and began insisting on ITSO cards at the exact same time they introduced their own Daysaver paper tickets valid only on Northern & Wirral lines! Priced 10-20p less but with much less validity.

No they didn't, the Day saver was around for years before the Saveaway moved from CCST to ITSO.

 

[Edvid]

Can a Saveaway be issued to other rail-issue ITSO smartcards? I have a GTR (Govia Thameslink Railway) Key smartcard, but if that's not possible I'll just buy a CCST version during my trip to Liverpool later this month.

 

[Djgr]

Can a Saveaway be issued to other rail-issue ITSO smartcards? I have a GTR (Govia Thameslink Railway) Key smartcard, but if that's not possible I'll just buy a CCST version during my trip to Liverpool later this month.

Not to my knowledge.

Many people on this forum get overexcited by having to pay £1 for a Metrocard but the vast majority of Saveaway users are local, for whom the cost of the Metrocard adds about 3p per Saveaway over its validity.

 

[JBuchananGB]

It is not possible to buy a Merseytravel Saveaway on a bus. A person wishing to start their Saveaway journey on a bus must first go to a PayPoint convenience store and load a Saveaway pass onto a Metro card. I don't now whether the stores will also sell you a Metro card if you need one, or if you must already have one obtained from a MerseyRail station, or Merseytravel Centre.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Got an all zone Merseytravel Saveaway this morning from my local train station which is printed in a rail ticket from.

The conditions on the Merseytravel website states it is valid on all public train, bus and ferry services starting and ending in Merseyside.

Just got on an Arriva bus in Southport and the driver didn't want to accept the ticket as 'it's a rail ticket' when it clearly states 'Merseytravel Saveaway All Areas'.

This is not the first time this has happened either.

Has anyone else had this trouble, as the bus drivers don't seem to be playing by the rules set out by Merseytravel.

Have you fed this back to Arriva? They should be able to put something out as a reminder/education to drivers.

 

[WirralLine]

Unfortunately this isn't a new thing. When I worked at Stagecoach Birkenhead 10 years ago they actually had a notice up to drivers saying the CCST stock Saveaway wasn't valid as it said "Rail Ranger" on the bottom of the ticket or something. I did inform management it was wrong and they did eventually agree and update it to say it was infact valid.

A few years ago a friend of mine came down from Yorkshire and he bought a CCST issued saveaway. We travelled around together (me using my Arriva bus staff pass as I worked there at the time) and he got refused travel on a Stagecoach bus unless he paid. I flashed my pass and politely explained to the driver he was mistaken. We popped into the travel centre at Birkenhead Bus Station where I confirmed the ticket was indeed valid on buses, and the woman said "tell the driver to actually read the ticket, it says All Area Saveaway on it!"

We didn't have issues using Arriva buses although some drivers gave it a good stare, Stagecoach was basically impossible though. I ended up getting intouch with Merseytravel and Stagecoach who both confirmed it was valid and said a staff brief would be issued. No idea if it ever happened or has improved though.

Now im a conductor I occasionally sell Saveaways on Star Mobile "bog roll" stock, good luck to anybody trying to get on a bus with one. Sad state of affairs.

 

[Djgr]

Unfortunately this isn't a new thing. When I worked at Stagecoach Birkenhead 10 years ago they actually had a notice up to drivers saying the CCST stock Saveaway wasn't valid as it said "Rail Ranger" on the bottom of the ticket or something. I did inform management it was wrong and they did eventually agree and update it to say it was infact valid.

A few years ago a friend of mine came down from Yorkshire and he bought a CCST issued saveaway. We travelled around together (me using my Arriva bus staff pass as I worked there at the time) and he got refused travel on a Stagecoach bus unless he paid. I flashed my pass and politely explained to the driver he was mistaken. We popped into the travel centre at Birkenhead Bus Station where I confirmed the ticket was indeed valid on buses, and the woman said "tell the driver to actually read the ticket, it says All Area Saveaway on it!"

We didn't have issues using Arriva buses although some drivers gave it a good stare, Stagecoach was basically impossible though. I ended up getting intouch with Merseytravel and Stagecoach who both confirmed it was valid and said a staff brief would be issued. No idea if it ever happened or has improved though.

Now im a conductor I occasionally sell Saveaways on Star Mobile "bog roll" stock, good luck to anybody trying to get on a bus with one. Sad state of affairs.

When Liverpool City Region bus franchising kicks in and it will be they responsible for the fares and tickets that are available on buses then hopefully this problem will go away. I always get a thrill to see these nice new yellow buses offering hope for the future.

 

[Starmill]

Not to my knowledge.

Many people on this forum get overexcited by having to pay £1 for a Metrocard but the vast majority of Saveaway users are local, for whom the cost of the Metrocard adds about 3p per Saveaway over its validity.

It costs Merseyrail less long term to issue tickets to smartcard as they don't have to buy new ticket stock at a high rate, as they used to. Perhaps the customer should be entitled to a 3p discount per Saveaway in view of this lower cost? Indeed that's very, very commonly how it's been implemented for PAYG across the country?

 

[TUC]

It costs Merseyrail less long term to issue tickets to smartcard as they don't have to buy new ticket stock at a high rate, as they used to. Perhaps the customer should be entitled to a 3p discount per Saveaway in view of this lower cost? Indeed that's very, very commonly how it's been implemented for PAYG across the country?

Do you really think lots of customers would be attracted by saving 3p?

 

[Starmill]

Do you really think lots of customers would be attracted by saving 3p?

It's actually a £2 difference though, not a 3p one. And if it's not that big of a deal in your view I'm sure Merseyrail won't miss it?

 

[Haywain]

It's actually a £2 difference though, not a 3p one. And if it's not that big of a deal in your view I'm sure Merseyrail won't miss it?

How much difference is it?

Perhaps the customer should be entitled to a 3p discount per Saveaway in view of this lower cost?