Livery under Great British Railways

[ScottGallagher]

Well as long as nobody does anything daft like spend a wad of council tax payer's cash on a brand new bus fleet for a major Scottish franchise and the newly adopted brand identity is a bright and modern scheme designed by an English branding agency staffed by Millennials who no doubt reach for something completely new but with nod to the golden era of state run buses for their game changing design, to be unveiled at a surprise launch media event as the first bus rolls out the depot and the winning bidder is a Northern Irish based bus manufacturer, we should be OK!

I'm actually strangely ambivalent and I'm theoretically supposed to have a view on the appropriateness of orange. I think I've only ever even seen an orange (Strathclyde red) bus in a museum. Having been aware of this supposedly iconic brand, I felt strangely unimpressed. And I am pretty sure it was a pretty new coat too, not faded. If anything, I was more pleased with the black stylised logo. That definitely looked modern. For it's time anyway.

Maybe I'm just anti-Glasgow, having only ever had bad experiences up there. I've never really liked the corporation livery either, the tones and ratios just feel naff, like a cheap imitation of the best corporation liveries. The logo too achingly modern. I'd never have one in my scale model collection, and they're dirt cheap some of them. I don't even think the similarity to the tricolour even clicked until I was looking for the above story. I think I just don't like those tones of yellow and green. Surely in house creations.

A bit too, this bus is not like the others, or anythng else you know and like, for me. The ick factor. I get a little bit of that with the strange Merseyside PTE green/turquoise!?!? too. Even Bee Network "yellow". I think if you can't even name the colour with absolute certainty, compare it to a fruit say, and everyone agrees, then it doesn't belong on a bus.

Bit too trainsetty for me. As in I'd love to own and run the 00 version. But have it roll up to me on a platform? Be seen getting onto it? No thanks. Aren't we all past the whole big logo thing? What are we, seven? We are, but nobody's supposed to know!

Stand close enough and even that's just a red and white blur at high speed. But static? Too big and garish. I'd move away from it. Giantlogophobia. Or BRphobia. Not too sure.

It's metallic blue and silver by the looks of it. That's what makes it so cool and modern, but classy for the nod to BR. If you just ignore the giant logo. The red can stay perhaps, and it's a good choice not to go triple metallic. But the beancounters will have a fit. Breaks the golden rule. We can't have nice things.

I think we got to the same place, albeit via a different route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2025 ==


Clearly you've never seen a Scotsman working for an Englishman! They'd have let them paint the town hall orange if they thought it would get the bloke fired.

Works the same way too. Oh right lads, you don't like the colour? I'm a thick eeejit am I? Well I wish you'd said something sooner. I've already painted five buses and ordered a thousand gallons of expensive bespoke paint, so I think I'll just say it's red. Enjoy your new buses!

That might not be too far fetched. Being half Scottish but London born I do get it!

 

[m79900]

It looks great as a heritage livery but it's not modern and so won't really do.

What does that even mean though? It's just two colours at the end of the day.

 

[43096]

It looks great as a heritage livery but it's not modern and so won't really do.

How are you defining “modern”?

Modern is at a point in time. If you’re designing something that will have to last 20 years or more you want “timeless” as modern goes out of fashion.

 

[urbophile]

To quote the Wikipedia article on the Flag of Ireland...

Flag of Ireland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There's only a really rather small relevance to the mainland however.....

Sectarianism in Glasgow - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

......which really makes this all the more curious:

Why Glasgow's corpy buses switched from 'tricolour' to orange back in 1983

Forty years ago, in 1983, when the official liveries of Glasgow's municipal bus fleet changed from a colour combination resembling the Irish flag, to full orange, a number of eyebrows were raised.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk

Merseytravel (or whatever is official name is) have opted for yellow and black. I think it looks very smart, and their choice was constrained for similar reasons as Liverpool City Council were over wheely-bin colours. They couldn't be red as that would offend Everton supporters, nor could they be blue as that wold upset their rivals (although they later adopted blue for recyclables). Although sectarian politics is no longer a live issue, they probably avoided green and orange for similar reasons. Hence they adopted purple. Purple trains and buses too would have been very distinctive.

 

[Tetragon213]

Merseytravel (or whatever is official name is) have opted for yellow and black. I think it looks very smart, and their choice was constrained for similar reasons as Liverpool City Council were over wheely-bin colours. They couldn't be red as that would offend Everton supporters, nor could they be blue as that wold upset their rivals (although they later adopted blue for recyclables). Although sectarian politics is no longer a live issue, they probably avoided green and orange for similar reasons. Hence they adopted purple. Purple trains and buses too would have been very distinctive.

Regarding orange, I'll just point out that it was within living memory where having the wrong colour scarf in the wrong part of certain cities was enough to instigate a murder; hence the death of Mark Scott and the resulting founding of the anti-sectarian charity Nil By Mouth, founded by one of Scott's friends (Cara Henderson) in his memory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseytravel (or whatever is official name is) have opted for yellow and black. I think it looks very smart, and their choice was constrained for similar reasons as Liverpool City Council were over wheely-bin colours. They couldn't be red as that would offend Everton supporters, nor could they be blue as that wold upset their rivals (although they later adopted blue for recyclables). Although sectarian politics is no longer a live issue, they probably avoided green and orange for similar reasons. Hence they adopted purple. Purple trains and buses too would have been very distinctive.

Green can't be that much of an issue because Merseytravel buses were traditionally green. I can see orange being an issue, but orange just looks 1980s.

Brief OT foray: As for the bins, "bin blight" is ten times worse with that ugly purple - black with coloured lids is the best way to make them blend in a bit.

As for purple trains, see West Midlands Railway!

 

[Wivenswold]

View attachment 175802
This? I agree, I think it looks fantastic!

Perfect, just....perfect.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How are you defining “modern”?

Modern is at a point in time. If you’re designing something that will have to last 20 years or more you want “timeless” as modern goes out of fashion.

I might have said this before, but changing things up a bit every 20 years seems reasonable to me. Keeps things fresh.

 

[Helvellyn]

I might have said this before, but changing things up a bit every 20 years seems reasonable to me. Keeps things fresh.

You want something for a livery that allows it to remain when a brand refresh happens. It was mentioned in another thread that it's taken a decade for GWR green to be uniformally rolled out. But you can refresh brand elements, staff uniforms, etc much more frequently

 

[Wivenswold]

The NSE livery certainly freshened things up with the new livery usually incorporating an internal refresh too. First Great Eastern's refurb of the Class 312s made a huge difference back in the late 90s. Trends change over the years, liveries are no different.
My wife (who has no interest in trains) said recently that our Southern train's colours looked really old fashioned inside and out and assumed it was a really old train.

Technically she wasn't wrong, as the unit was 23 years old. I hope no-one from Southern is reading this as it was a "Refurbished" 377.

 

[vuzzeho]

View attachment 175802
This? I agree, I think it looks fantastic!

This looks stunning. The blue and white together would really work on a livery. I wouldn't go for this one exactly as it is but the colours work together so nicely on modern bodies.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The NSE livery certainly freshened things up with the new livery usually incorporating an internal refresh too. First Great Eastern's refurb of the Class 312s made a huge difference back in the late 90s. Trends change over the years, liveries are no different.
My wife (who has no interest in trains) said recently that our Southern train's colours looked really old fashioned inside and out and assumed it was a really old train.

Technically she wasn't wrong, as the unit was 23 years old. I hope no-one from Southern is reading this as it was a "Refurbished" 377.

I bet it was a Connex interior one. (377/1 or 377/3)
The difference between those and Southern interior ones are night and day.

 

[thomalex]

Just been announced the GBR brand will be appearing on trains from May

Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May

The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government

www.thetimes.com

"Government officials are finalising the new brand for Great British Railways with the Union Jack set to feature prominently.

The new logo is scheduled to be unveiled in May, on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government.

The government has opted to nationalise operators on a piecemeal basis as private contracts expire. Legacy branding — from Avanti to Southern — will disappear as operators are brought into public ownership over the coming months"

Personally looking forward to finally seeing some movement, hopefully everything is on track for this next month

 

[generalnerd]

Just been announced the GBR brand will be appearing on trains from May

Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May

The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government

www.thetimes.com

Yeah I hate it, at least it’s not just a British flag

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Yeah I hate it, at least it’s not just a British flag

The logo in the article is not the one to be used

 

[generalnerd]

The logo in the article is not the one to be used

Ah thank goodness!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Ah thank goodness!

My reaction when I read that too

 

[Sorcerer]

I'm surprised to see that the branding will be out so soon, but I do look forward to seeing what gets unveiled. The article is behind a paywall though so does it say whether or not it'll be just branding or does it also confirm a full livery?

 

[jon0844]

I'm surprised to see that the branding will be out so soon, but I do look forward to seeing what gets unveiled. The article is behind a paywall though so does it say whether or not it'll be just branding or does it also confirm a full livery?

I can't see how GB Railways can afford to spend the money to rebrand a whole fleet of trains, which will also mean new branding at stations, uniforms etc.

Surely the most significant change will be to add the logo to the front/rear coaches or maybe every coach. As time goes on, add the new logo to onboard signs/posters and plan a gradual transition at times when things need to be replaced/refurbished anyway.

But perhaps they'll skin an entire train as a launch vehicle. Any more than that and people might start to wonder if it's money well spent. GB Railway will be making most changes behind the scenes for a while, I expect.

 

[Russel]

I'm surprised to see that the branding will be out so soon, but I do look forward to seeing what gets unveiled. The article is behind a paywall though so does it say whether or not it'll be just branding or does it also confirm a full livery?

I recommend getting yourself a 12ft Ladder...

 

[BrakeCoach]

In an alternate world, renationalized rail would have reverted back to its "blank slate," aka sectorization circa 1994, and then work its way from there. But things changed too much for too long for it to simply "revert" back to it. I still think there is a lot in sectorization period liveries that GBR can take note of. Though it should be noted that liveries should always suit the trains just like how clothes are tailored to each person! One shouldn't just slap on IC Swallow on a class 800, since the angled look is made to pair well with the flat-but-angled looks of the 125s and the 225s. It should definitely take hints to the existing curvatures and motifs of the physical design. I think they could take inspiration from the Swallow livery in the scrapped IC250 project, though.

 

[Pete_uk]

Hope it's subtle and fits in with the livery

 

[Leyland Bus]

All that is needed is "Great British Railways" followed by Rail Symbol 2 both in a contrasting colour to what is underneath it... simple.

However, they can't roll out cohesive station signage, so branding trains is going to be a nightmare I fear...

 

[saismee]

Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May

The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government

www.thetimes.com

The trains themselves are unlikely to be repainted due to cost constraints, sources said. Instead, the current branding will be removed and replaced with a livery that could include the white, red and blue of the Union Jack.

I'm not quite sure what this means... they aren't being repainted but the livery is being replaced? How exactly are they going to redo the livery without a repaint? Some vinyls certainly don't make it a new livery.

SWR will be first to lose branding, followed by C2C and then GA. The article states that GA will be nationalised in autumn, but I have also heard some say August.

 

[TFT YouTube]

Something I'm not at all fond of because what's nice about the stuff we have now is different livery on different units now it's same livery on all units

 

[Leyland Bus]

Something I'm not at all fond of because what's nice about the stuff we have now is different livery on different units now it's same livery on all units

I think we're a long long way off all the trains looking the same...

 

[saismee]

Something I'm not at all fond of because what's nice about the stuff we have now is different livery on different units now it's same livery on all units

Don't take my Greater Anglia hare away!!

 

[EdChap]

Presumably they will appear on SWR trains as that is being renationalised in May.

 

[BrakeCoach]

All that is needed is "Great British Railways" followed by Rail Symbol 2 both in a contrasting colour to what is underneath it... simple.

However, they can't roll out cohesive station signage, so branding trains is going to be a nightmare I fear...

They would definitely roll out at least one

Here are some of my other predictions, ordered from most to least likely:

• All trains would simply be de-branded and re-branded with Rail Symbol 2 and possibly "Great British Railways" next to it in Rail Alphabet 2.
• The livery will have some sort of a white background, to reduce costs of reliverying everything, and to use as a template for something better (like what East Coast envisioned with their white livery).
• In the long term, there would be more elaborative liveries, especially those that will be introduced post-renationalization (i.e. Class 897)
• regional identities might be retained, especially with already renationalized companies: blue/purple for trans-pennine, red and white for eastern, etc... Could just be a temporary cost-saving measure until they roll out said comprehensive livery
• Hopefully some "heritage" liveries all across the board. They're repainting them anyway, so why not?
• Return of the swallow and toothpaste? They still own the trademarks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

Oops, missed the rest of the first sentence, I meant:

They would definitely roll out at least one SWR unit in full GBR livery, for publicity purposes. It would take a while for the rest to follow.

 

[urbophile]

Less is more. All you need is the double arrow logo. Especially as the 'Great' British stuff is far too reminiscent of MAGA.