Almost got trapped inside Leamington Spa station for the night

[JordR]

Does anyone know if it would be illegal to open other people's post from inside the postbox? I'm sure we could get a few more pages out of that. /s

Nah, that one's a slam dunk. There's a surprisingly modern but terribly named offence of "intentionally intercepting a communication in the course of its transmission by means of a public postal service" at section 3(1)(a)(iii) of the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. Up to two years in pokey.

Edit: Shouldn't have looked into this. Also "interfering with the mail" under section 83 of the Postal Services Act 2000, also two years. Or just simple theft, seven years.

 

[WAB]

Wasn't there a thread on the forums that suggested a number of help points simply route to the public-facing National Rail Enquiries call centre number?

In which case they're about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

What do Chiltern's do?

Chiltern is NRE so the chances of them passing on the message in a timely manner is slim...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2025 ==

Is there no one in the control rooms of each TOC whom, seeing a seriously late running late night train, sees it as their job to contact the right people and ensure stations will still be open?

After around 9pm, desks in most TOC controls start being uncovered and by 0124 I'd expect the office to be on a skelton staff (which would be small number of controllers given that Chiltern is a small TOC and wouldn't have many even during the day). This skeleton staff would be sorting out the ramifications of the earlier major disruption, as well as allocating the units for the start of traffic (a more difficult task if units are displaced).

They'd then have to be aware of any stations on their patch which are in the overlap of a Venn diagram of 'stations fully locked after the last train' and 'stations not manned 24/7'. In my area, I cannot think of a single station like that. And trains running set down only late at night is unusual. So much so that I'd posit that many controllers would not encounter a train which is both unadvertised and setting down at stations which at the time are both fully locked and unstaffed. Therefore, they're not going to be aware of the need to contact station staff to keep them on. I'd expect that if Chiltern follow this up properly, they'll create a contingency plan for said stations and brief controllers accordingly.

 

[jon0844]

Do they? Reckon being trapped is an emergency worthy of 999...

Calls to 101 can be upgraded if required. Such as reporting an incident that has happened (say people have left the scene), and then something else happens that warrants an instant response. You don't need to hang up and call 999.

Start with 101 and call 999 if there's still a crime in progress or you feel you are in immediate danger (or likely to be soon).

Being locked in was definitely a call to 101 but given the circumstances, you'd still expect a fairly rapid response especially if there aren't loads of other incidents taking place at night. If it was a Friday or Saturday night, you might be waiting a little longer. The police might just contact BTP or Network Rail for a MOM to come and get you out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2025 ==

It's a bit scary this number is not more widely known, because it has been in existence since 2011. That said, even I almost mistakenly typed 111 in the original reply! And I was wide awake and safely at home.

Does your local GP come out and get you?

(If so, this might be a great way to get an appointment and avoid the queuing on the phone at 8am...)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2025 ==

The existence of help points don't always mean they are useful. Especially if it goes to the Indian call centre of National Rail Enquiries who are quite useless.

Every help point I've ever seen has at least two buttons, sometimes three (the red one for fire). One does indeed go through to National Rail Enquiries, the other to either the emergency services or more likely control - which is almost certainly 24 hours for every train operator.

Help points are usually in positions that make them easy to spot and be used with coverage by CCTV cameras, and when you speak to control they can likely see you on camera at the same time.

 

[AlterEgo]

You’ve got to love this forum. What started off with broadly “I arrived late in a station and was let out” has, within a page and a half, reached the stage of discussing what constitutes false imprisonment.

Surprised it took so long. Next up, whether someone else can open Chiltern’s letter of apology to the OP.

 

[The exile]

Can one falsely imprison someone by accident?

Replace “accident” by “negligence”.

 

[Dave W]

misuse of the 999 service is a criminal offence.

Calling 999 in good faith because you feel you are in an emergency position is absolutely not a criminal offence.

If you're locked in a building anywhere, 999 is absolutely a reasonable option. If they don't deem it an emergency they'll prioritise it like anything else and tell you as such, but there'll be no question that you've done anything wrong. In fact, the idea that the police wouldn't treat this as a priority is entirely your opinion.

The fact this is a railway station and you know about railways and believe the person is not in danger is fantastic, congrats. But that may not be the opinion of the person, and may not be the case anyway. Discouraging calling for help - through any medium - for the sake of being pious about using 999 is utterly silly.

Being locked in was definitely a call to 101 but given the circumstances, you'd still expect a fairly rapid response especially if there aren't loads of other incidents taking place at night.

Well sorry, if I want a rapid response I'm belling 999!!! They can prioritise me as they see fit.

 

[The exile]

After around 9pm, desks in most TOC controls start being uncovered and by 0124 I'd expect the office to be on a skelton staff (which would be small number of controllers given that Chiltern is a small TOC and wouldn't have many even during the day).

And there hangs the root (sorry, mixed metaphor) of a lot of issues. Incidents at 23.00 may not affect as many trains or passengers - but any impact is likely to be several magnitudes greater - the obvious being the difference between a train cancellation at 11.45 on a Saturday in June and one at 23.45 (last train) on a Saturday in January.

 

[357]

Although in this instance clearly someone should have stayed on to keep the station open until the last train had left.

Sounds like enforced overtime to me...

 

[Haywain]

Sounds like enforced overtime to me...

If you can’t or won’t stay on and the station needs to be kept open there’s an on-call manager to contact.

 

[jon0844]

Well sorry, if I want a rapid response I'm belling 999!!! They can prioritise me as they see fit.

Calling 999 doesn't get you a faster response. They may answer the phone a bit quicker but that's it.

 

[43066]

Most unstaffed stations do have some sort of side exit and I know stations in London have similar to what you mention in Kenilworth with an emergency bar / egress from the inside only.

Perhaps it’s a London/former NSE region thing, but most suburban stations in London have an exit that’s left permanently open during the hours when the ticket office is unstaffed. Usually a gate that allows entry or exit not via the ticket office which, along with toilets and waiting rooms, is locked when the staff leave. It’s hard to see why that isn’t more universally adopted.

You’ve got to love this forum. What started off with broadly “I arrived late in a station and was let out” has, within a page and a half, reached the stage of discussing what constitutes false imprisonment.

Indeed. All very predicable!

 

[The exile]

Perhaps it’s a London/former NSE region thing, but most suburban stations in London have an exit that’s left permanently open during the hours when the ticket office is unstaffed. Usually a gate that allows entry or exit not via the ticket office which, along with toilets and waiting rooms, is locked when the staff leave. It’s hard to see why that isn’t more universally adopted.

Difficult (and expensive) where the station is raised and the only access is through a building. Also not a good idea where the station might become a magnet for Anti-social behaviour and there’s a lot to vandalise.

 

[Dave W]

Calling 999 doesn't get you a faster response. They may answer the phone a bit quicker but that's it.

Yep. So I get a slightly more reassuring outcome calling 999 over 101. So 999 it is.

 

[jon0844]

Yep. So I get a slightly more reassuring outcome calling 999 over 101. So 999 it is.

I'll assume you're trolling at this stage.

 

[tspaul26]

In this type of situation just text 61016. It goes straight into BTP’s control room which is manned 24/7. They have direct contacts into Network Rail and TOC controls, as well as the ability to despatch officers who have copies of most relevant access keys required for the railway.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Surprised it took so long. Next up, whether someone else can open Chiltern’s letter of apology to the OP.

Just need to find a way to bring up legal tender and we've hit the trifecta of barrack room law discussion.

Perhaps it’s a London/former NSE region thing, but most suburban stations in London have an exit that’s left permanently open during the hours when the ticket office is unstaffed. Usually a gate that allows entry or exit not via the ticket office which, along with toilets and waiting rooms, is locked when the staff leave. It’s hard to see why that isn’t more universally adopted.

Hastings is staffed throughout the night, but after the last departure the staff a side gate in the passageway between the ticket hall and platforms is opened for the last five or so arrivals. Then that gets locked after the last passenger leaves. Works quite well and avoids the need for a staff member to continually monitor the ticket hall for antisocial behaviour and vandalism.

Yep. So I get a slightly more reassuring outcome calling 999 over 101. So 999 it is.

Ah, so you're the person who 'phones 999 after eating too much kebab.

 

[Dave W]

I'll assume you're trolling at this stage.

Well you know what they say about assuming. Absolutely no trolling here.

Ah, so you're the person who 'phones 999 after eating too much kebab.

No? What's that got to do with being locked in a building?

 

[43066]

Difficult (and expensive) where the station is raised and the only access is through a building. Also not a good idea where the station might become a magnet for Anti-social behaviour and there’s a lot to vandalise.

It will vary by location but at any locations that aren’t permanently staffed during train running hours (ie the majority), surely it must be doable. Loos and buildings locked up reduces the risk of anti social behaviour, because there isn’t anything to access other than empty platforms.

On the former NSE stations I believe the only ones which don’t have access described are those with a 24/7 staff presence; Bromley South, East Croydon, Orpington are three examples. All the rest can be accessed, and vandalism/anti social behaviour doesn’t seem to be a particular issue.

Put another way, not so long ago it was proposed that the vast majority of ticket offices were to be closed with stations left unmanned much of the time. What was intended to happen then regarding access arrangements?

 

[357]

If you can’t or won’t stay on and the station needs to be kept open there’s an on-call manager to contact.

In my own experience I've been at Liverpool Street and the on-call manager, who didn't drive, was at home in Colchester.

From my own experience it's not unrealistic to think the staff did call the manager who either didn't understand the situation or didn't want to authorise overtime, and told the colleague to lock up as normal.

 

[Watershed]

You’ve got to love this forum. What started off with broadly “I arrived late in a station and was let out” has, within a page and a half, reached the stage of discussing what constitutes false imprisonment.

Ah yes, because locking someone inside a station is absolutely fine... You're also missing out several steps with your summary.

It is a very fair question to ask under the circumstances.

 

[43066]

Hastings is staffed throughout the night, but after the last departure the staff a side gate in the passageway between the ticket hall and platforms is opened for the last five or so arrivals. Then that gets locked after the last passenger leaves. Works quite well and avoids the need for a staff member to continually monitor the ticket hall for antisocial behaviour and vandalism.

Indeed - in the same category as the ones I mention above.

Ah yes, because locking someone inside a station is absolutely fine... You're also missing out several steps with your summary.

It is a very fair question to ask under the circumstances.

They found the main entrance shut and were let out of a side entrance by some other staff. “Locking someone inside a station” is a rather hyperbolic way of describing something very minor, and it’s just utterly bizarre for people to start talking about false imprisonment, calling 999 etc.

 

[Horizon22]

Difficult (and expensive) where the station is raised and the only access is through a building. Also not a good idea where the station might become a magnet for Anti-social behaviour and there’s a lot to vandalise.

Not particularly. You set up a push bar “fire-exit” style exit to egress from the inside. Okay a little bit of cost as it will need to be alarmed so that it can be closed again to prevent said anti-social behaviour but these are thankfully quite rare occurrences.

 

[renegademaster]

Indeed - in the same category as the ones I mention above.



They found the main entrance shut and were let out of a side entrance by some other staff. “Locking someone inside a station” is a rather hyperbolic way of describing something very minor, and it’s just utterly bizarre for people to start talking about false imprisonment, calling 999 etc.

The hypothetical from his post was if those staff were not in the station, which could have easily been the case if it happened 15 minutes later

 

[Whisky Papa]

From my own experience working for Northern, the only 'lock-up' station I dealt with was Glossop, although this has changed since then. The late-turn had to wait for the last train from Manchester Piccadilly to arrive just after midnight and lock the doors to the platform behind the exiting passengers, before locking the entrance to the booking hall on their way out. I can only remember the last train being even slightly late the odd time, but I do recall leaving a chap on a bench on the platform who had nowhere to go on a foul night - he promised he would leave before the trains started running at 6 by climbing out over the fence onto Howard St, and as I didn't hear any more about it, I assume he kept his word.

Obviously there would be a panic if the booked early-turn rang in sick or did not turn up for any reason. I was summoned from Hadfield to open the doors at Glossop one morning, but returned to Hadfield as the emergency key set only covered the platform doors, not the booking office. Rochdale has had occasional instances of being locked in the morning due to staff sickness, I could probably find news items online somewhere about it.

All the other stations I worked at had a night-gate to allow access when the ticket hall was closed, which was usually supposed to be locked during the day. I did once forget to open it one evening at Reddish North when I had closed the booking hall to mop the floor, but some hammering on the door from arriving passengers soon alerted me to my error! As I had to leave via the gate myself, I would have realised a few minutes later anyway, but there were a few stations where it would be possible to leave without using or even passing the night gate - Romiley springs to mind.

Incidentally, re 'wrongful imprisonment' I was told under no circumstances to lock a waiting room with somebody inside, even temporarily. If people refused to leave when it was locking up time, phone Control and if neither Security or BTP were able to respond, leave it open and make sure I left the station safely - I never had to put it to the test, fortunately.

 

[grah2702]

999 is memorable from childhood. 101 I would never think of.

I am led to understand (but never tried it) that the American 911 also works.

 

[Jimini]

I am led to understand (but never tried it) that the American 911 also works.

112 (the European standard one) also works.

 

[Horizon22]

Incidentally, re 'wrongful imprisonment' I was told under no circumstances to lock a waiting room with somebody inside, even temporarily. If people refused to leave when it was locking up time, phone Control and if neither Security or BTP were able to respond, leave it open and make sure I left the station safely - I never had to put it to the test, fortunately.

Yes you certainly wouldn't deliberately lock up (and escalate as needed as you say), but such circumstances like the OP are inadvertent errors often caused by - surprise, surprise - a lack of communication between relevant parties or a matter of routine ("2Y00 is the last train, watch everyone off and then we close the station") without checking.

Where there are issues is where the last members of station staff are unable to meet the last train under very serious lateness (i.e well over their shift time) and they cannot be compelled to stay on. I know each company has different standards about this - for train crew there's not much to be done as they've got to get to depot anyway on the late train (enforced overtime effectively), but station staff are potentially in a position to call up Control and state they are past their book off time, lock up station and drive home with not-to-stop order(s) issued and taxis booked as required by Control for the affected station. I'm not saying this does happen often, but that doesn't mean it never happens / has happened.

The issue being that thousands of stations around the country all have completely different access/egress measures and are various degrees of 'open' when unstaffed meaning there is no one-size-fits-all approach.

 

[The exile]

Not particularly. You set up a push bar “fire-exit” style exit to egress from the inside. Okay a little bit of cost as it will need to be alarmed so that it can be closed again to prevent said anti-social behaviour but these are thankfully quite rare occurrences.

Indeed, that is a potential solution (to the second problem, though not the first). However, I was commenting on the “why can’t a side gate just be left open” idea.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed, that is a potential solution (to the second problem, though not the first). However, I was commenting on the “why can’t a side gate just be left open” idea.

Well some stations are not built with a "side gate" or are subject to anti-social behaviour / vandalism issues.

 

[infobleep]

Replace “accident” by “negligence”.

Can one falsely imprison someone by negligence?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2025 ==

Perhaps it’s a London/former NSE region thing, but most suburban stations in London have an exit that’s left permanently open during the hours when the ticket office is unstaffed. Usually a gate that allows entry or exit not via the ticket office which, along with toilets and waiting rooms, is locked when the staff leave. It’s hard to see why that isn’t more universally adopted.



Indeed. All very predicable!

I'm not aware of Guildford railway station having such a thing but that is manned 24 hours day I believe.

It is why they got agreement to diverted the pedestrian route across the footbridge overnight, as only one member of staff would be working at the station at the time.