Transport for Wales Class 230

[WirralLine]

I am in the Chester area next Saturday.

Although my plans have so far been to ride some buses in Cheshire & Birkenhead, then get a 777 to Chester, I am wondering how easy it will be to locate a 230 from Bidston to Heswall or Shotton.

Judging by this thread, it looks unlikely that more than 50% of the service will be 230s, if that.

On a Saturday the 230 departs Bidston at -
0636, 0851, 1105, 1320, 1535, 1750.

Hope this helps. They sometimes swap the units over for the 1320 departure.

 

[Tony2]

I am in the Chester area next Saturday.

Although my plans have so far been to ride some buses in Cheshire & Birkenhead, then get a 777 to Chester, I am wondering how easy it will be to locate a 230 from Bidston to Heswall or Shotton.

Judging by this thread, it looks unlikely that more than 50% of the service will be 230s, if that.

Using a Real Time Trains link, you can determine exactly which service is a 230 on the day and which unit is working:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Wrexham Central all day on 02/02/2025

Train information at Wrexham Central all day on 02/02/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 3 cars are obviously 230s and 2 cars are 197s.

A save away ticket costs £6.30 for the day and includes the Mersey rail system and TfW line from Bidston as far as Heswall, there are weekends £2 tickets available also I believe.

 

[Peter Sarf]

TFW drivers are being used as shunters solely at Birkenhead. The point being they are excluded from any normal link work as a result.

Is the use of TfW drivers at Birkenhead a big deal ?.
I assume the extra cost is something that shows up but would be factored into the costs of running Chester Depot which TfW pay anyway.

 

[317 forever]

On a Saturday the 230 departs Bidston at -
0636, 0851, 1105, 1320, 1535, 1750.

Hope this helps. They sometimes swap the units over for the 1320 departure.

Using a Real Time Trains link, you can determine exactly which service is a 230 on the day and which unit is working:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Wrexham Central all day on 02/02/2025

Train information at Wrexham Central all day on 02/02/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 3 cars are obviously 230s and 2 cars are 197s.

A save away ticket costs £6.30 for the day and includes the Mersey rail system and TfW line from Bidston as far as Heswall, there are weekends £2 tickets available also I believe.

Thank you both for your ideas for tracking down a 230.

To increase the ease of locating one, I have bought an Advance single from Heaton Chapel to Crewe, even though it mean wasting my £2.10 Advance single from Heaton Chapel to Macclesfield. I shall therefore forget about D&G Buses, still use the new Crewe Bus Station but head towards Chester earlier in the morning to increase my chance of locating a 230, if necessary northbound.

 

[craigybagel]

How long does this last for? Presumably the local ASLEF branch would be interested if regular drivers are taken off normal work for any length of time?

ASLEF would likely be quite happy if it's additional work, on top of all the normal services Chester depot are expected to cover.

Incidentally it's not unique to 230s; there are also drivers on standby at the relevant depots to cover unexpected 67 moves, be that extra moves on and off depots or the rescue of failed trains. I'd be surprised if it's unique to TfW as well.

 

[supervalkoinen]

Using a Real Time Trains link, you can determine exactly which service is a 230 on the day and which unit is working:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Wrexham Central all day on 02/02/2025

Train information at Wrexham Central all day on 02/02/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 3 cars are obviously 230s and 2 cars are 197s.

A save away ticket costs £6.30 for the day and includes the Mersey rail system and TfW line from Bidston as far as Heswall, there are weekends £2 tickets available also I believe.

I think the £2 weekend tickets were only available in January.

 

[WirralLine]

I think the £2 weekend tickets were only available in January.

And they were Merseyrail daysaver only as far as I know, so not valid on TfW service.

 

[Prime586]

A class 67 has greater cubic capacity in a single cylinder than all the engines in a class 230 combined.

The TfW 230s are fitted with 4 3.2 litre engine rafts, so 12.8 litres. The EMD 710 V12s in the Class 67 are 11.6 litres per cylinder (the two-car Marston Vale units had two engine rafts).

It's not quite as simple as comparing engine capacity. If a 230 is having to rev it's engines to keep the traction current supplied and charge the batteries simultaneously between stations on a local stopper there may not be that much difference in fuel usage compared to a Class 67 pulling a light load of 4 coaches and a DVT on a long-distance cruise between stops.

Someone in a previous thread on this forum stated that the TfW Class 67s do about 1250 miles on 4000 litres (880 gallons) of fuel. That would give 1.42 mpg for the formation, or 5.7 mpg per passenger car (if the DVT is included in the calculation, it rises to 7.1 mpg per car) . Vivarail quoted the 2-car, 2-engine Marston Vale 230s as 7.5mpg per car. If those figures are in the right ballpark there might not be that much in it between the TfW 220 and TfW 67.

 

[Djgr]

And they were Merseyrail daysaver only as far as I know, so not valid on TfW service.

Yes. You need Saveaways for Bidston-Heswall, the buses, the ferries and any trains additional to the Merseyrail (electrics) (i.e., Northern, TPE, East Midlands, WMR).

 

[childwallblues]

Any one know the identity of this Welsh train on Birkenhead depot today 1/2/25

It would be one of 230006-10 which are maintained at the depot by Stadler.

 

[twpsaesneg]

The TfW 230s are fitted with 4 3.2 litre engine rafts, so 12.8 litres. The EMD 710 V12s in the Class 67 are 11.6 litres per cylinder (the two-car Marston Vale units had two engine rafts).

I stand corrected - I thought there were 3x 3.2L engines in the TfW 230's (in which case my maths would have worked!).

I take your point about it not being that simple, however I understand that the 67's are far heavier on fuel on the Marches run than Class 15x units, and the 230's are quoted as being around 1/3 better on fuel than a Class 150 (admittedly by Vivarail).

A Class 67 on its own at 90T is very roughly the same weight as a Class 230, you then add around 40T per coach for a load of around 250T altogether (4x40T + 90T).

Unless the Class 230 is incredibly inefficient at transferring power to rail there really isn't a way it can use more fuel than a Class 67+LHCS combo as they are under half the weight. But I guess until there are publicly released figures there's no way of knowing for sure - I don't think messroom gossip can be taken as fact.

 

[Richard Scott]

I stand corrected - I thought there were 3x 3.2L engines in the TfW 230's (in which case my maths would have worked!).

I take your point about it not being that simple, however I understand that the 67's are far heavier on fuel on the Marches run than Class 15x units, and the 230's are quoted as being around 1/3 better on fuel than a Class 150 (admittedly by Vivarail).

A Class 67 on its own at 90T is very roughly the same weight as a Class 230, you then add around 40T per coach for a load of around 250T altogether (4x40T + 90T).

Unless the Class 230 is incredibly inefficient at transferring power to rail there really isn't a way it can use more fuel than a Class 67+LHCS combo as they are under half the weight. But I guess until there are publicly released figures there's no way of knowing for sure - I don't think messroom gossip can be taken as fact.

General rule of thumb is loco and coaches become more efficient than a DMU at around 5/6 coach trains. That is rule of thumb and not exact science!

 

[craigybagel]

General rule of thumb is loco and coaches become more efficient than a DMU at around 5/6 coach trains. That is rule of thumb and not exact science!

And it's probably worth pointing out for those of you doing the maths on 67s, the MKIV sets are all 5 cars (+DVT) now, not the 4 quoted by some posters.

 

[jamesst]

ASLEF would likely be quite happy if it's additional work, on top of all the normal services Chester depot are expected to cover.

Incidentally it's not unique to 230s; there are also drivers on standby at the relevant depots to cover unexpected 67 moves, be that extra moves on and off depots or the rescue of failed trains. I'd be surprised if it's unique to TfW as well.

Stadler also have shunters trained at Birkenhead North to move the 230s round the depot.

 

[Northerngirl]

Thank you both for your ideas for tracking down a 230.

To increase the ease of locating one, I have bought an Advance single from Heaton Chapel to Crewe, even though it mean wasting my £2.10 Advance single from Heaton Chapel to Macclesfield. I shall therefore forget about D&G Buses, still use the new Crewe Bus Station but head towards Chester earlier in the morning to increase my chance of locating a 230, if necessary northbound.

If you are getting a saveaway from a merseyrail station you'll need to buy a mersey transport card too

 

[Tony2]

If you are getting a saveaway from a merseyrail station you'll need to buy a mersey transport card too

I wondered about that statement on the website, however we bought saveaways a couple of weeks ago and didn’t need the £1 Mersey transport card?

This allowed access through the barriers and was checked over the week by on train staff without issue.

 

[Northerngirl]

I wondered about that statement on the website, however we bought saveaways a couple of weeks ago and didn’t need the £1 Mersey transport card?

This allowed access through the barriers and was checked over the week by on train staff without issue.

I think northern sell it as paper

 

[Tony2]

I think northern sell it as paper

The saveaway was purchased at Liverpool Lime Street Merseyrail, direct from their ticket machine, no additional ticket and no extra cost as per the website.

I’m just wondering, for the next time I’m in the area.

 

[twpsaesneg]

And it's probably worth pointing out for those of you doing the maths on 67s, the MKIV sets are all 5 cars (+DVT) now, not the 4 quoted by some posters.

I mentioned 4 coaches but only to give a vaguely equivalent number of passenger vehicles to the Class 230's as a comparison - i.e. 67+3Mk4+DVT - in my weight calc.

 

[317 forever]

I did track down a 230 yesterday, 230 008 on the 13.20 from Bidston, as far as Heswall.

I like the white panels and red poles in TfW stock. I was in a minority here in having enjoyed my ride on a TfW 769, back in 2022.

 

[Sheridan]

Looks like a lunchtime swap for the 230s again today - 009 swapping out and 006 coming into service.

 

[Prime586]

Looks like a lunchtime swap for the 230s again today - 009 swapping out and 006 coming into service.

The weather's getting warmer...

 

[WirralLine]

Finally an update from those in the know - the modified gensets have been proving successful and are to be rolled out to all 5 units.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

230008 ran ECS from Birkenhead depot to Crewe ETMD this morning.

 

[D365]

230008 ran ECS from Birkenhead depot to Crewe ETMD this morning.

Which depot is ETMD? Or do you mean IEMD?

 

[Class15]

Which depot is ETMD? Or do you mean IEMD?

Electric Traction Maintenance Depot at Crewe. It seems to be known as both IEMD (International Electric Maintenance Depot) and ETMD.

 

[craigybagel]

Electric Traction Maintenance Depot at Crewe. It seems to be known as both IEMD (International Electric Maintenance Depot) and ETMD.

Officially. Unofficially for those responsible in bringing trains on and off (drivers, signallers and depot staff alike) it's referred to pretty much exclusively as "the ETD" or "Crewe Electric"

 

[Bikeman78]

Do they?
Can you present us with the failure facts?

Modern Railways will answer that question for you. Technically the class 756 are worse at the moment but they have only been running for three months and have nearly caught up already.

 

[Steve B]

Looking at RTT this morning, I notice that 2 of the 3 trains on the Borderlands line today are 230s - 008 and 009 running all day. I think that this is the first day that the allocation is 2x230 and 1x197. I'm guessing that once all the units have the new gensets the line will become 230 only.

 

[Zontar]

Looking at RTT this morning, I notice that 2 of the 3 trains on the Borderlands line today are 230s - 008 and 009 running all day. I think that this is the first day that the allocation is 2x230 and 1x197. I'm guessing that once all the units have the new gensets the line will become 230 only.

Hope it lasts. The line deserves it