Are there any figures for how many people miss trains due to last minute platform alterations?

[RPM]

Passengers often miss trains even when the platform alteration could not be described as "last minute". This is down the the Trainline app displaying booked platforms rather than the actual ones. In the minds of the travelling public, and especially the younger generation, Trainline is "the railway". They will take what the app says as gospel and disregard information on the actual station displays. I've seen a definite increase in this type of incident and the industry needs to address it, rather than just grumble about how annoying Trainline is. It's what people use, whether we like it or not.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Amazing that so many use Trainline when you pay more compared with using TOC websites or apps.

 

[styles]

Amazing that so many use Trainline when you pay more compared with using TOC websites or apps.

While somewhat true, most TOC websites do not offer split tickets. LNER offers split tickets but only for LNER journeys. ScotRail (using Thetrainline's booking engine) only started offering network-wide split tickets in July. The amount which any split ticketing website saves me on trips from Scotland down the west coast to Wales far outweigh Thetrainline's £2.99-capped booking fee.

That said, I rarely find Thetrainline to be the best split ticket algorithm. Trainsplit (including this forum's booking engine) and TrainPal usually come out trumps. Where the split saving is very large, TrainPal usually cheaper as they have a caspped fee for split tickets, and for journeys where split ticketing saves a smaller amount, this forum's works out cheaper as it's %-based but uncapped.

But yeah, Thetrainline are able to market themselves as saving people money because for a lot of journeys, they do, even with their booking fee, compared to any TOC website/app except ScotRail as of July.

Not to mention Thetrainline usually bring out features before most of their competitors, so sometimes it's things like the convenience of having your Railcard in the same app as your tickets, at a time when other retailers didn't offer it, and many still don't.

 

[zwk500]

I've seen a definite increase in this type of incident and the industry needs to address it, rather than just grumble about how annoying Trainline is. It's what people use, whether we like it or not.

Ultimately, the industry *has* made the appropriate data available for free, and it's up to Trainline to integrate it. The data feeds are there.

 

[35B]

Passengers often miss trains even when the platform alteration could not be described as "last minute". This is down the the Trainline app displaying booked platforms rather than the actual ones. In the minds of the travelling public, and especially the younger generation, Trainline is "the railway". They will take what the app says as gospel and disregard information on the actual station displays. I've seen a definite increase in this type of incident and the industry needs to address it, rather than just grumble about how annoying Trainline is. It's what people use, whether we like it or not.

Yes, my daughter and her friends got the wrong side of that at Nottingham on Saturday. Pointed at p7 and their train left from 2

 

[londonbridge]

Couple of times I’ve been on my way to be a mainline station such as Victoria and looked at Realtime trains to establish the best platform to head for, for example I’d see 23:08 on 19 or 23:15 on 16, getting the 08 would make the difference between making a bus connection at my destination versus having to wait for the next bus, but on arriving at, say, 23:04 and checking the board rather than head directly to 19, I find it has changed platforms.

nb: times and platform numbers are illustrative only, for the purposes of this post).

 

[Horizon22]

While somewhat true, most TOC websites do not offer split tickets. LNER offers split tickets but only for LNER journeys. ScotRail (using Thetrainline's booking engine) only started offering network-wide split tickets in July. The amount which any split ticketing website saves me on trips from Scotland down the west coast to Wales far outweigh Thetrainline's £2.99-capped booking fee.

That said, I rarely find Thetrainline to be the best split ticket algorithm. Trainsplit (including this forum's booking engine) and TrainPal usually come out trumps. Where the split saving is very large, TrainPal usually cheaper as they have a caspped fee for split tickets, and for journeys where split ticketing saves a smaller amount, this forum's works out cheaper as it's %-based but uncapped.

But yeah, Thetrainline are able to market themselves as saving people money because for a lot of journeys, they do, even with their booking fee, compared to any TOC website/app except ScotRail as of July.

Not to mention Thetrainline usually bring out features before most of their competitors, so sometimes it's things like the convenience of having your Railcard in the same app as your tickets, at a time when other retailers didn't offer it, and many still don't.

Trainline has won generally on the good UI (you can’t state it’s not good for train times / journey planner)

However you’ll be hard pressed to find station staff who haven’t rolled their eyes at someone angry about the “estimated” or “predicted” platforms that people take as law!

 

[KNN]

Trainline has won generally on the good UI (you can’t state it’s not good for train times / journey planner)

However you’ll be hard pressed to find station staff who haven’t rolled their eyes at someone angry about the “estimated” or “predicted” platforms that people take as law!

If only the TOCs would pool their resources to have a better app for the whole industry.

Trainline has the best app, but it is next to useless if anything non-standard happens

 

[infobleep]

Agreed, as a signaller I always try and inform station staff in advance if I need to re-platform, it makes their job easier too as they are the ones who will potentially have to deal with angry passengers who have missed a train.

As an aside, several of the multi-platform stations in my neck of the woods have automated announcements, interposing the train head code on the berth of the "new" platform causes the automated system to announce the platform alteration, which can be quite useful if the station staff have gone home.

However I find late at night, some stations don't broadcast any announcemts. So when a train pulls into a platform at Putney, where it is claimed via signage, no trains operate on a Sunday, you miss your train. This is an issue late at night when less trains run and once caused me to have to travel via Central London as I missed the last train from Clapham Junction to Haywards Heath.

I was once waiting at Woking for a train to Guildford, which was shown as departing from the platform on the fast line. I don't know the platform numbers there.

Standing near the edge of the platform (but of course behind the yellow line) and looking towards London I saw the approaching train switching from the fast line to the slow one. I therefore headed to the steps up to the footbridge to cross to the other platform.

The train was running into the platform by the time an announcement was made about the change. It waited in the platform probably for long enough for all passengers to get to the new platform.

It seemed to me likely that the decision to re-route it was made at a late stage and I think the platform staff probably didn't know till the last moment. Someone - the driver or the guard, or perhaps one of the platform staff - has to make that decision to hold the train so that no-one will miss it.

You were lucky they did that or were able to do it. That isn't a guarantee, even at Woking.

Ultimately, the industry *has* made the appropriate data available for free, and it's up to Trainline to integrate it. The data feeds are there.

The industry needs to force their hand in some way.

 

[Adam Williams]

Ultimately, the industry *has* made the appropriate data available for free, and it's up to Trainline to integrate it. The data feeds are there.

Is this true? Do Trainline use anything other than Darwin? Is it 100% the case that every platform alteration will always be reflected in Darwin, and it's not possible to get a case where the CIS displays something else?

 

[infobleep]

Is this true? Do Trainline use anything other than Darwin? Is it 100% the case that every platform alteration will always be reflected in Darwin, and it's not possible to get a case where the CIS displays something else?

I once had a situation where a train was was announced as running fast between Surbiton and London Waterloo by the guard or driver.

The station CIS wasn't updated though. I assume someone forgot to do so or some other issue. I was the one who informed station staff of this, as passengers would be boarding the train. They weren't to happy at this situation.

I wanted New Malden and as it so happens, the train did stop at New Malden, although after that it definitely ran fast. Of course I wasn't on it by this point, as I got off at Surbtion.

This is rare though.

 

[zwk500]

Is this true? Do Trainline use anything other than Darwin? Is it 100% the case that every platform alteration will always be reflected in Darwin, and it's not possible to get a case where the CIS displays something else?

The platform data is available in the Train Describer data feed, and Trainline could intergrate it if they wished. It wouldn't update until the train is actually in the berth quite often, but it'd be there. Not saying the idnustry couldn't do better, but often the decision to replatform is absolutely last minute anyway.

 

[DelW]

Woking has just done it to me. 11:55 to Portsmouth via Guildford, shown on all displays as leaving from p5. Literally as a train was rolling into p4, it was announced that that was the Portsmouth train, leaving 100+ people to dash over the crowded footbridge, hauling cases, buggies, bikes and anything else as there wouldn't be time to wait for two lifts. Surely it *must* have been known further in advance than that.

Bizarrely its place on p5 was taken by an early arriving Alton train, meaning that the switch caused an unnecessary route conflict at Woking junction, although without apparent delays.

 

[riverhexes]

this is an ongoing problem on the local lnwr lines into euston on sundays as well, very frequently displaying the incorrect platform until the very last minute (and this only being changed via the display rather than with an announcement). its not last minute changes either as ive learnt to tell which the correct platform will be in advance as its usually a case of the normal lines being out of use all day. i wish they would sort it as its bad for accessibility for people to be rushing to a new platform.

 

[andylikestrain]

Happened to me years ago at Peterborough. Train to Cambridge was changed platforms and there was no announcement, so I sat happily in the sunshine until I realised!

 

[IanXC]

Is this true? Do Trainline use anything other than Darwin? Is it 100% the case that every platform alteration will always be reflected in Darwin, and it's not possible to get a case where the CIS displays something else?

Pretty much. Darwin is why apps which use the feed (all TOCs for instance) and station CIS will give the same information.

Trainline take the first download (when the timetable is published, months out - see upcoming timetable change threads) and assume that this will never change. As much as they don't revised the information in their app on the day, they don't revise it months out when engineering work is planned either.

 

[Adam Williams]

Pretty much. Darwin is why apps which use the feed (all TOCs for instance) and station CIS will give the same information.

Trainline take the first download (when the timetable is published, months out - see upcoming timetable change threads) and assume that this will never change. As much as they don't revised the information in their app on the day, they don't revise it months out when engineering work is planned either.

I'm not sure I believe this, sorry. It's an accreditation requirement to keep up to date with the timetables that RDG publish. There are indeed some requirements Trainline don't meet, but they are well-documented on this forum and - to my knowledge - don't involve the timetable data.

Do you have anything to substantiate the claim?

 

[IanXC]

I'm not sure I believe this, sorry. It's an accreditation requirement to keep up to date with the timetables that RDG publish. There are indeed some requirements Trainline don't meet, but they are well-documented on this forum and - to my knowledge - don't involve the timetable data.

Do you have anything to substantiate the claim?

My regular exposure to this problem ended with my last change of job, when it was regular to find people with tickets listing trains not planned to run. Good stuff if they have fixed it, but I'm sceptical on past form.

 

[Horizon22]

My regular exposure to this problem ended with my last change of job, when it was regular to find people with tickets listing trains not planned to run. Good stuff if they have fixed it, but I'm sceptical on past form.

Not sure that's Trainline's fault though (for all their other flaws). The TOC has at one point sold tickets for trains that have since been withdrawn from the timetable, through PG'ing or other means.

 

[SECR263]

Woking has just done it to me. 11:55 to Portsmouth via Guildford, shown on all displays as leaving from p5. Literally as a train was rolling into p4, it was announced that that was the Portsmouth train, leaving 100+ people to dash over the crowded footbridge, hauling cases, buggies, bikes and anything else as there wouldn't be time to wait for two lifts. Surely it *must* have been known further in advance than that.

Bizarrely its place on p5 was taken by an early arriving Alton train, meaning that the switch caused an unnecessary route conflict at Woking junction, although without apparent delays.

At NWD the fast London Bridges use P1 every 15 mins. The slow Victoria's twice hourly also use P1. The VIC is tt for 3 mins after the LBG, so the LBG's run late and the Victoria's start at West Croydon, 2 miles away , so the LBGs are diverted to p3 very late so mad scramble very frequently on a daily basis. . No lifts so disabled disadvantaged and prams etc. It needs a timetable change to avoid conflict but I don't suppose it will happen.

 

[KNN]

Not sure that's Trainline's fault though (for all their other flaws). The TOC has at one point sold tickets for trains that have since been withdrawn from the timetable, through PG'ing or other means.

In any other industry the retailer would be expected to make sure the customer knew. If you buy a ticket for a concert from an official retailer and it's cancelled or changes time/venue you'd expect to be told by the people you bought the ticket from.

 

[tumbledown]

If you buy a ticket for a concert from an official retailer and it's cancelled or changes time/venue you'd expect to be told by the people you bought the ticket from.

No I wouldn't, not if bought from a reseller.

 

[zwk500]

No I wouldn't, not if bought from a reseller.

Trainline are anagolous to Ticketmaster in this example, and if I'd bought a ticket from Ticketmaster I'd expect to be fully informed of any start time. However I think the comparison with events applies for 'booked train only' advances but is less applicable to flexible tickets.

 

[tumbledown]

Trainline are anagolous to Ticketmaster in this example, and if I'd bought a ticket from Ticketmaster I'd expect to be fully informed of any start time. However I think the comparison with events applies for 'booked train only' advances but is less applicable to flexible tickets.

Presumably that is because they deliver the tickets electronically. But the fact that they do so is incidental to the type of business - supplying a ticket, not supplying up-to-the-minute gig information.
If they posted the tickets to you, would you exoect a postcard in event of cancellation?

 

[zwk500]

Presumably that is because they deliver the tickets electronically. But the fact that they do so is incidental to the type of business - supplying a ticket, not supplying up-to-the-minute gig information.
If they posted the tickets to you, would you exoect a postcard in event of cancellation?

In a word, yes. Not 'on-the-night' necessarily and it could come from the organisers rather than Ticketmaster but if I've bought legitimate tickets through authorised agents I'd expect to be informed of any changes that I needed to know about.

When Ticketmaster used to send me physical tickets, they'd come with a letter containing important information, including a number to phone for updates. I wouldn't rely solely on them to inform me - that would be silly - but I would expect some for of communication from either Ticketmaster or the event organiser if there was a substantive change. That's certainly happened when buying sports tickets from the clubs (including, I think, through Ticketmaster) when games are sold STC for TV kick offs.

 

[infobleep]

Sobthis evening I was on a service from Raeding to Gatwick Airport.

It should arrive in at 17:59 but was held outside of Gatwick Airport due to a train to Horsham blocking platform 3.

After a few minutes to put our train into platform 1.

I got out of the trian and headed off to another platform. About 1 minutes after I had got off the train where was an announcement over the tanoy apologising for the kate notice alternation and the train was now on platform 1 instead of platform 3.

I got another train so I have no idea of everyone made the train. Usually they have 4 minutes between the train arriving and departing. If they stuck to that, passengers now had 3 minutes and less to make the train. The official connection time between Great Western Railway trains and other Govia Thameslink Railway trains is 10 minutes.

So that just highlights how short the time is in comparison to the official time.

I saw the train departed from Gatwick Airport 3 minutes late so may be they allowed people slightly longer, given it only arrived 2 minutes late.

 

[Watershed]

There seems to be quite an issue with this on the southern WCML, when trains are timetabled to run on the fasts but are actually put on the slows (or vice versa) during the "two track railway" late at night and on Sunday mornings.

The PIS at the smaller stations seems to show the trains as departing from the "booked" platform until moments before they actually arrive on the other platform. The Text to Speech-generated announcements about the platform change are very quiet and easy to miss.

Given the length of platforms and potentially needing to walk a long way round to use lifts if you have luggage, it is a recipe for trains being missed - it nearly happened to me at Tring last week. I think there were a few passengers who did indeed miss it and would have had an hour to wait in the cold due to the following train being cancelled.

 

[Horizon22]

There seems to be quite an issue with this on the southern WCML, when trains are timetabled to run on the fasts but are actually put on the slows (or vice versa) during the "two track railway" late at night and on Sunday mornings.

That's odd, because a two-track railway is a planned possession normally, so the platforms would be in the start of day timetable and should be correct.

 

[zwk500]

That's odd, because a two-track railway is a planned possession normally, so the platforms would be in the start of day timetable.

Certainly historically, the Euston-Milton Keynes timetable was not amended to show WTT trains running Fast Line if the 2-track possessions are on the slows. Signallers just managed the weaves with the slack in the timetable, and it saved planners the job of having to upload and check the amended plan every time. Platform boards would often not be updated until the train stepped into the actual berth.
Short-notice traffic (especially traffic with Special Notices) is/was slightly as Signallers would try and follow the booked path in the notice, so they had to be shown Fast line and then pathed into an appropriate gap. It looked a bit odd on the graph!

On other 4-track areas trains are routinely amended, especially if there's ARS or tricky junctions and less slack in the 2-track timetable.

 

[Horizon22]

Short-notice traffic (especially traffic with Special Notices) is/was slightly as Signallers would try and follow the booked path in the notice, so they had to be shown Fast line and then pathed into an appropriate gap. It looked a bit odd on the graph!

On other 4-track areas trains are routinely amended, especially if there's ARS or tricky junctions and less slack in the 2-track timetable.

Sounds odd operationally too! Bit of a headache no doubt to keep it all in check.