It wasn’t me! Penalty fine

[island]

I gave the advice in post 25 specifically to this user and their case. As it is a not guilty plea and identity is in dispute there is no chance of the court proceeding with a trial on-the-spot and a non-zero chance that the railway prosecutor might be present and agree to offer no evidence.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Yes, but my question was about going to a different court; for example, being convicted in London and doing the SD in Manchester. Would the Manchester court have access to the prosecution evidence and statement?

In my day, we could call for a copy of the file to be sent over - scanned (or fax!!) and ask the sending court to transfer the case to us. The defendant would have to wait.

Now files are electronic; there may be less delay.

There always has been pressure to conclude in the fewest number of appearances possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==

I gave the advice in post 25 specifically to this user and their case. As it is a not guilty plea and identity is in dispute there is no chance of the court proceeding with a trial on-the-spot and a non-zero chance that the railway prosecutor might be present and agree to offer no evidence.

Completely agree.

 

[Johnjones76560]

Thanks everyone. I have an appt at a solicitors tomorrow for the SD and will get it posted signed for straight away.
I’ve looked up my case on the penalty services website and there appears to be no photograph of the offender or a signature. Both of these boxes are blank. Are these both usually there? Or does it depend on the TOC? Never been stopped before so don’t know the procedure!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2025 ==

Hi, I did the SD at a solicitor & have sent it back signed for delivery. Does anyone know what happens next please? Thanks!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, I did the SD at a solicitor & have sent it back signed for delivery. Does anyone know what happens next please? Thanks!

Someone here will know and can hopefully answer that

Assuming you know which rail company this involved it might now be a good idea to draft a letter to the rail company concerned (their prosecutions section) explaining what has happened and that you have now done an SD. This is because I think it is a good idea to keep them in the loop, because you want them to accept it was not you that was issued with the Penalty Fare, but someone who gave false details, and that when the outcome of the SD comes through to them (which re starts the case AIUI), you want them to accept it was not you and drop the prosecution (to save you and them the time it will involve to go to court and persuade the magistrates that it was not you etc etc)

By opening a dialogue with the railway company it might help progress this constructively and be to your advantage.

Apols, I am not sure if you have said which train company is involved.

Have a think about drafting something up which you can post here for people to help you get the wording as good as it can be.

 

[Johnjones76560]

Someone here will know and can hopefully answer that

Assuming you know which rail company this involved it might now be a good idea to draft a letter to the rail company concerned (their prosecutions section) explaining what has happened and that you have now done an SD. This is because I think it is a good idea to keep them in the loop, because you want them to accept it was not you that was issued with the Penalty Fare, but someone who gave false details, and that when the outcome of the SD comes through to them (which re starts the case AIUI), you want them to accept it was not you and drop the prosecution (to save you and them the time it will involve to go to court and persuade the magistrates that it was not you etc etc)

By opening a dialogue with the railway company it might help progress this constructively and be to your advantage.

Apols, I am not sure if you have said which train company is involved.

Have a think about drafting something up which you can post here for people to help you get the wording as good as it can be.

Thank you. I will definitely do this. The TOC is the tyne and wear metro. Does anyone have their best address please? Any initial tips for the letter please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2025 ==

Hi, I have drafted this. Any advice on it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



I am writing in regard to the above PFN and subsequent court proceedings.

I first became aware of the situation on 19/12/2024 when I received a Further Steps Notice to my current address. I immediately telephoned the number on the letter and was advised it was in regards to not having a valid ticket on the Metro on 15/03/2024. I was sent a link which I filled in and then subsequently I received the documents for the statutory declaration on 09/01/2025 and these were completed and returned special delivery on 15/01/2025.

The documents I received on 09/01/2025 included details of the original PFN which I now know was sent to my old address. This is an address I have not lived at since May 2023.

I have pleaded not guilty to the alleged offence as it was not me. This is a fraud case and I have filed this with Action Fraud and the reference number is XXXXX.

At the date and time of the alleged offence I was in uni in a class.

My flat and university are nowhere near the stations the alleged travel offence occurred.

I would like to request any supporting evidence that you have ie CCTV footage, bodycam footage, description of alleged person, ID used to verify identity etc so that I can then submit my ID documents to you and you will see that I am not the person you have on file as having committed the alleged offence.

I request that this action against me be withdrawn, as it was not me who took this journey

 

[Pushpit]

Thank you. I will definitely do this. The TOC is the tyne and wear metro. Does anyone have their best address please? Any initial tips for the letter please?

Nexus House, which is that building next to that historic sign for "Robert Sinclair Tobacco Co. Ltd", corner of St. James' Boulevard and Westgate Road. The official address being: Nexus House, St James' Boulevard, Newcastle NE1 4AX.

I do wonder if before you do that, you give them a call on 0191 20 20 747 during office hours. A few other cases have been sorted out by the friendly people who answer the phones on that line, and I'm wondering if they will help you faster. Clearly there is some need for formality here, so the letter will have to go in if there is no alternative.

 

[Haywain]

I am writing in regard to the above PFN and subsequent court proceedings.

I first became aware of the situation on 19/12/2024 when I received a Further Steps Notice to my current address. I immediately telephoned the number on the letter and was advised it was in regards to not having a valid ticket on the Metro on 15/03/2024. I was sent a link which I filled in and then subsequently I received the documents for the statutory declaration on 09/01/2025 and these were completed and returned special delivery on 15/01/2025.

The documents I received on 09/01/2025 included details of the original PFN which I now know was sent to my old address. This is an address I have not lived at since May 2023.

Just say it wasn't you, rather than beating around the bush.

I would like to request any supporting evidence that you have ie CCTV footage, bodycam footage, description of alleged person, ID used to verify identity etc

If it wasn't you, you have no right to see any of this.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. I will definitely do this. The TOC is the tyne and wear metro. Does anyone have their best address please? Any initial tips for the letter please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2025 ==

Hi, I have drafted this. Any advice on it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



I am writing in regard to the above PFN and subsequent court proceedings.

I first became aware of the situation on 19/12/2024 when I received a Further Steps Notice to my current address. I immediately telephoned the number on the letter and was advised it was in regards to not having a valid ticket on the Metro on 15/03/2024. I was sent a link which I filled in and then subsequently I received the documents for the statutory declaration on 09/01/2025 and these were completed and returned special delivery on 15/01/2025.

The documents I received on 09/01/2025 included details of the original PFN which I now know was sent to my old address. This is an address I have not lived at since May 2023.

I have pleaded not guilty to the alleged offence as it was not me. This is a fraud case and I have filed this with Action Fraud and the reference number is XXXXX.

At the date and time of the alleged offence I was in uni in a class.

My flat and university are nowhere near the stations the alleged travel offence occurred.

I would like to request any supporting evidence that you have ie CCTV footage, bodycam footage, description of alleged person, ID used to verify identity etc so that I can then submit my ID documents to you and you will see that I am not the person you have on file as having committed the alleged offence.

I request that this action against me be withdrawn, as it was not me who took this journey

I think some of this needs to be redrafted for clarity really. You start off ok but then mention a statutory declaration out of nowhere.

Needs structuring differently so start off as you do. Then clearly state you had not received any notice of court action and that had you done so you would have immediately responded to state that this did not involve you as you were not involved in the alleged incident and you surmise someone they did stop has given false details.

Then state that having discovered you have been convicted without having been aware, and that you believe you are not guilty of the offence you have been advised to submit a Statutory Declaration to the court which you have now done.

Say that if the case is rescheduled you intend to plead not guilty.

Then ask Nexus if they will review the information they obtained from the person they stopped in the light of your own identity (enclose a copy of your photo id).

Then end up asking if they can withdraw the case so there is no further court action

See what they then say in reply.

And don’t refer to university as ‘uni’ in what needs to be a very formal and businesslike letter.

 

[Johnjones76560]

I think some of this needs to be redrafted for clarity really. You start off ok but then mention a statutory declaration out of nowhere.

Needs structuring differently so start off as you do. Then clearly state you had not received any notice of court action and that had you done so you would have immediately responded to state that this did not involve you as you were not involved in the alleged incident and you surmise someone they did stop has given false details.

Then state that having discovered you have been convicted without having been aware, and that you believe you are not guilty of the offence you have been advised to submit a Statutory Declaration to the court which you have now done.

Say that if the case is rescheduled you intend to plead not guilty.

Then ask Nexus if they will review the information they obtained from the person they stopped in the light of your own identity (enclose a copy of your photo id).

Then end up asking if they can withdraw the case so there is no further court action

See what they then say in reply.

And don’t refer to university as ‘uni’ in what needs to be a very formal and businesslike letter.

This advice is great! Thanks so much!

 

[Johnjones76560]

Hi, I came on here last month as I’d received a letter saying I’d been charged in court for not having a ticket but it wasn’t me (I’d not heard about it before as they had the wrong address) With this forums assistance I filled in a stat dec and have a rearranged court date in a couple of months. I plan to plead not guilty & wrote a letter to nexus Tyne and Wear metro advising them of this and asking if they could drop it before the court date however I haven’t heard back. That was a month ago & the letter was signed for at their head office. Would you write them another letter or just wait for the court date? I’m scared to go to court!

 

[Pushpit]

Hi, I came on here last month as I’d received a letter saying I’d been charged in court for not having a ticket but it wasn’t me (I’d not heard about it before as they had the wrong address) With this forums assistance I filled in a stat dec and have a rearranged court date in a couple of months. I plan to plead not guilty & wrote a letter to nexus Tyne and Wear metro advising them of this and asking if they could drop it before the court date however I haven’t heard back. That was a month ago & the letter was signed for at their head office. Would you write them another letter or just wait for the court date? I’m scared to go to court!

As suggested above, I would give them a telephone call during working hours.

 

[Johnjones76560]

As suggested above, I would give them a telephone call during working hours.

Hi, I did this before sending a letter but the call handler barely let me get my words out before telling me they had to have everything in writing!

 

[Pushpit]

Hi, I did this before sending a letter but the call handler barely let me get my words out before telling me they had to have everything in writing!

I can't see any harm in giving them another call, since you have done what they suggested.

If it comes to it, you will have to go to the new court hearing and present your case, but at some stage Nexus will need to engage in the process, it wouldn't surprise me if they left it to the last moment. When they engage with the new hearing, they may well reach out to you at that point.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, I did this before sending a letter but the call handler barely let me get my words out before telling me they had to have everything in writing!

Try to ring but follow it up with another letter enclosing a copy of the first one and asking when you can expect a reply.

They ought to have the courtesy to reply even if to say they will not drop it before court! If you can’t get any sort of reply ask your MP to raise it (their non response not if you are or are not guilty). They are a public body and should conduct themselves efficiently and courteously to people who contact them.

 

[Johnjones76560]

Thx both. Yeah that’s why I’ve waited-I thought I’d at least get a reply within a month! I think I’d just like to know where I stand ie do I need to mentally prepare myself for court!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thx both. Yeah that’s why I’ve waited-I thought I’d at least get a reply within a month! I think I’d just like to know where I stand ie do I need to mentally prepare myself for court!

Yes, they should reply in a month - they probably even have some service standard published somewhere stating the timescale in which they expect to reply to written correspondence! You could look for it and if they have not replied in that time scale then draw their attention to it in diplomatic terms...

A quick search led me to this:

Contact us | nexus.org.uk

www.nexus.org.uk

We aim to respond to 95% of emails within five working days. However, we are currently receiving a higher than normal volume of customer contacts and are not meeting this target.
We are working hard to respond to customers as quickly as possible and we thank you for your patience.

 

[Johnjones76560]

My attempts to engage with nexus have not been successful so it looks like I will have to attend court. Can any1 advise what happens pls? I intend to plead not guilty. Thx

 

[island]

My attempts to engage with nexus have not been successful so it looks like I will have to attend court. Can any1 advise what happens pls? I intend to plead not guilty. Thx

Have you received paperwork from the court?

 

[Johnjones76560]

Have you received paperwork from the court?

Yeh, it’s on Thursday

 

[Puffing Devil]

You need to turn up to court on time. The usher will direct you to the correct court. You could ask if the railway prosecutor is in the building. If they are, it may be worth asking to speak to them to see if they will accept that you are not the person who was stopped. If that works, your case will be called into court, and the matter should be formally withdrawn by the prosecutor.

If you cannot meet or agree a discontinuence with the prosecutor, you'll be called into the court. You will be asked to identify yourself, and the charges will be put to you for you to enter a plea. When you plead not guilty, the court will start its pre-trial process by going through a form to identify the issues in the case and any evidence that they will be presenting. It is down to the TOC to show that you were the person stopped, though if you can show it wasn't you by calling a witness, so much the better. The TOC will have to share all the evidence that they have with you. It may be saved bodycam footage or a description of the offender taken at the time. They may also want to call the RPI to identify you.

Once the form is completed, a trial date will be set, and you'll need to come back on that date and at that time. You can enter a guilty plea any time before the start of the trial, though the prosecution costs will rise closer to the trial and the fine discount will be reduced if you are found guilty.

There's a good video here to help you get a feeling for the court:

Should the TOC decide to go to trial, they must be pretty confident it was you who was stopped. Running your own defence in a trial is not for the fainthearted. If it goes that far you may want to consider legal support.

 

[Johnjones76560]

Thx for taking the time. That’s really helpful. Can I take a friend with me for moral support? Also, I don’t need legal representation do I?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Can I take a friend with me for moral support?

Yes. Most trials are open to the public so a friend can be there. Someone with more knowledge of how things really work will be able to say whether your friend can sit with you, or if they have to be in the public gallery.

Also, I don’t need legal representation do I?

You're not required to have legal representation, so in that sense you don't need it. But whether a lawyer would be able to present your case more effectively and successfully is a different question - in that sense you might need legal representation.

 

[Puffing Devil]

There would be no need for a lawyer for this initial plea hearing. However, if the TOC wants to take it all the way to trial, you may want to get some help, though it won't be cheap. You may be able to get advice from the Duty Solicitor, though their time is stretched and they will be directed to more serious offence. However, if they have time, they can be helpful. Ask the usher if they will see you, should the meeting with the prosecutor not go well. Legal aid will not be available in this case.

You can certainly have a friend with you. For the plea hearing, they can sit in the public gallery. Again, the usher can help them find it. They can go in there when your case is called.

Should you go to trial and don't have a lawyer, you can take in with you a "McKenzie Friend*" to support you as someone representing yourself. They sit alongside you during the hearings and can offer quiet advice and moral support. While they cannot speak on your behalf or conduct the case, they can help you understand court procedures, organise your thoughts, take notes, and discreetly suggest points to raise. Essentially, they act as a silent assistant when you don't have legal representation.

As I said before, should it go to trial, you may well want to consider working with a solicitor.

*more here

 

[Haywain]

if the TOC wants to take it all the way to trial, you may want to get some help, though it won't be cheap.

In my opinion, for a case where it is identity that is in dispute, the OP would not need a solicitor specialising in rail fare evasion, just a general criminal lawyer. That would keep the cost down.

 

[Puffing Devil]

In my opinion, for a case where it is identity that is in dispute, the OP would not need a solicitor specialising in rail fare evasion, just a general criminal lawyer. That would keep the cost down.

Agreed. Though it still won't be cheap.

 

[island]

You may be able to get advice from the Duty Solicitor, though their time is stretched and they will be directed to more serious offence. However, if they have time, they can be helpful. Ask the usher if they will see you, should the meeting with the prosecutor not go well.

Agreed but just to note duty solicitors these days will rarely see a defendant for a non-imprisonable offence.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Agreed but just to note duty solicitors these days will rarely see a defendant for a non-imprisonable offence.

Yes - it depends on their workload; for this offence, there is no entitlement, though at my court, they used to help if they could.

 

[Johnjones76560]

Thx for all the advice. I’m confident they don’t have video footage of me however if they don’t have video footage at all can I be found guilty on just a description? Eg tall, slim male with dark hair? That could describe numerous people!

 

[WesternLancer]

This does all seem pretty 'off' that someone can be impersonated by another traveller who has 'stolen' their name and address, and has to then go to considerable personal expense to engage a solicitor or other legally qualified expert to protect themselves form being wrongly prosecuted and found guilty.

I have great respect for forum members advising on this thread (who I know regularly give very high quality advice), so I rather hesitate to ask this - but my question is really, realistically how necessary is the OP going to need that help in the court?

At what stage would the OP have access to the descriptive information the railway company / Nexus may have that that outlines what the OP looks like? Would that only happen on the day in court?

 

[Johnjones76560]

Hopin not 2 need legal advice as when I go to court on Thurs I’m hopin they dismiss the case when they have no evidence. However I do worry if the description matches me. What happens then?