Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

[Wyrleybart]

Somewhere I read that there was a suggestion of 46 services being taken out of the timetable.. The only place I would have seen that was in one of these forums. Maybe they won't run 170s on Sundays.

I have seen the rumour about no 170s on Sundays and think it is somwhat incorrect. If XC didn't operate any 170s on Sundays there would a lot of Leicester and Cambridge crew sitting around doing nothing, not to mewntion some Birmingham based Senior Conductors, even if the drivers were shifted onto voyager work.

 

[Russel]

I have seen the rumour about no 170s on Sundays and think it is somwhat incorrect. If XC didn't operate any 170s on Sundays there would a lot of Leicester and Cambridge crew sitting around doing nothing, not to mewntion some Birmingham based Senior Conductors, even if the drivers were shifted onto voyager work.

I can't imagine the DFT being too happy with the idea of XC deciding to essentially give up with the 170 work on Sundays.

But then, think of they money that would be saved, so maybe it's not so far fetched...

 

[43066]

I can't imagine the DFT being too happy with the idea of XC deciding to essentially give up with the 170 work on Sundays.

But then, think of they money that would be saved, so maybe it's not so far fetched...

If trains are cancelled (meaning delay repayments) and crews are sitting around doing nothing, it’s hard to see where any money is being saved. Surely the opposite would be the case?

 

[Harpo]

If trains are cancelled (meaning delay repayments) and crews are sitting around doing nothing, it’s hard to see where any money is being saved. Surely the opposite would be the case?

Logic vs the DfT bean-countery.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have seen the rumour about no 170s on Sundays and think it is somwhat incorrect. If XC didn't operate any 170s on Sundays there would a lot of Leicester and Cambridge crew sitting around doing nothing, not to mewntion some Birmingham based Senior Conductors, even if the drivers were shifted onto voyager work.

As rumours go, its complete rubbish! As I’ve said upthread the service changes being made for May have been made, you can see the timetable on real time trains.

 

[GhostManDN91]

Not sure if this is the right place to mention but I was at Leeds 12th of March. I was shocked when I seen this train pull in with only 4 coaches. I was gonna go for a ride on it to Sheffield but gave it a miss with how busy it was before departure. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C65999/2025-03-12/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Harpo]

Not sure if this is the right place to mention but I was at Leeds 12th of March. I was shocked when I seen this train pull in with only 4 coaches. I was gonna go for a ride on it to Sheffield but gave it a miss with how busy it was before departure. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C65999/2025-03-12/detailed#allox_id=0

Nobody else familiar with XC (ahem) ‘service’ is likely to be shocked.

 

[duffield]

Not sure if this is the right place to mention but I was at Leeds 12th of March. I was shocked when I seen this train pull in with only 4 coaches. I was gonna go for a ride on it to Sheffield but gave it a miss with how busy it was before departure. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C65999/2025-03-12/detailed#allox_id=0

Every time I've looked at that particular service it's been 4 or 5 coaches, nothing shocking there really.

 

[Trainman40083]

Nobody else familiar with XC (ahem) ‘service’ is likely to be shocked.

Surely the correct phrase is you are shocked when it isn't a 4 car. I used to visit a place in West Yorkshire. I used Real Time Trains to target double sets coming home. I wonder if more people use the Northern service via Barnsley for a short run through Yorkshire.

 

[Xavi]

From my experiences this week between Devon and Derby on mid-afternoon departures, overcrowding is worsening. There were standing passengers in first class both directions and I had difficulties leaving the train at Derby because of the passengers crammed in the aisle at the inner end of the carriage.

There must be suppressed demand from passengers who won’t return to a service like this, and I’ve always been suspicious that the revenue and NR cost allocations do a disservice to XC.

Not transferring all the 221s to XC is a missed opportunity for a quick fix.

 

[Trainman40083]

From my experiences this week between Devon and Derby on mid-afternoon departures, overcrowding is worsening. There were standing passengers in first class both directions and I had difficulties leaving the train at Derby because of the passengers crammed in the aisle at the inner end of the carriage.

There must be suppressed demand from passengers who won’t return to a service like this, and I’ve always been suspicious that the revenue and NR cost allocations do a disservice to XC.

Not transferring all the 221s to XC is a missed opportunity for a quick fix.

I've very rarely used Cross Country for a long time. I'm just not prepared to put up with cattle class. There is no certainty of a reasonable journey experience.

 

[Russel]

Not transferring all the 221s to XC is a missed opportunity for a quick fix.

This needs feeding back to the DFT, not XC.

 

[Xavi]

This needs feeding back to the DFT, not XC.

Yes, I am sure we all understand that DFT is the decision maker.

 

[david1212]

.....
There must be suppressed demand from passengers who won’t return to a service like this, and I’ve always been suspicious that the revenue and NR cost allocations do a disservice to XC.....

I've very rarely used Cross Country for a long time. I'm just not prepared to put up with cattle class. There is no certainty of a reasonable journey experience.

Count me in to this group.
The ticket cost where priced by XC adds to the disincentive. For some journeys there is a significant saving by splitting.

From a DfT / treasury viewpoint to run 8/9 car pairs as well as the additional cost of the set an extra member of staff is also required.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes, I am sure we all understand that DFT is the decision maker.

Indeed, Cross Country get instructed what will happen, and penalised if they perform poorly.

 

[GoneSouth]

Indeed, Cross Country get instructed what will happen, and penalised if they perform poorly.

Which they do, but mostly on Sundays!

 

[grecian ern]

221109 1v66 Bristol TM to Plymouth this evening

 

[Brewer66]

221109 1v66 Bristol TM to Plymouth this evening

Good spot! Tracking back through Realtime Trains it re-entered traffic yesterday morning and has been plying it's trade on the NW-SE corridor.

 

[Halish Railway]

Good spot! Tracking back through Realtime Trains it re-entered traffic yesterday morning and has been plying it's trade on the NW-SE corridor.

I think it entered service earlier in the week.

I’m actually currently travelling on it to Manchester and it’s by far the nicest experience I’ve had on a Voyager. It’s moderately busy, the ride quality is good, it’s very clean and the engine (in coach B) is incredibly smooth, far from the usual agricultural experience.

 

[hux385]

So how many ex-Avanti units is that in service with XC now? 4?

 

[quantinghome]

Is there any indication on what services XC are going to deploy the additional trains?

 

[Halish Railway]

Is there any indication on what services XC are going to deploy the additional trains?

Not yet but you’d think that 1V52, 1V54 and 1V56 are in prime position to be lengthened, all currently booked as four carriage Voyagers. Honestly as a West Yorkshire resident I’m fed up of seeing the 10:11, 11:11 and 12:11 departures from Leeds being four carriages in length.

 

[Discuss223]

Is there any indication on what services XC are going to deploy the additional trains?

I use a website called www.realtimetrains.co.uk.

It will tell you the allocation for the journey on the day of departure, up to around 5 hours or so before departure, but can be more depending on the diagram.

If you don't know your departure, or are wanting to ride on a specific unit, you can always check on the website the departures from the depots.

CrossCountry Voyagers are stabled at Barton Under Needwood, Eastleigh, Long Rock, Laira, Bristol Barton Hill, Crofton, Reading Train-Care, Tyne Yard, Longsight and Craigentinny depots.

For example, there's often a shunt of them coming down from Barton to Birmingham New Street early in the morning.

You can often use what platform they arrive in to in order to guess what journey they will be making.

REALTIME TRAINS:

Welcome​

We are an independent provider of real-time information about train services across the Great British rail network.​

 

[JonathanH]

For example, there's often a shunt of them coming down from Barton to Birmingham New Street early in the morning.

One of the giveaway signs on lengthening, if it happens, will be ECS movements of units which are currently pairs from Barton (and other depots) but split to different destinations, having to be duplicated.

 

[43055]

Not yet but you’d think that 1V52, 1V54 and 1V56 are in prime position to be lengthened, all currently booked as four carriage Voyagers. Honestly as a West Yorkshire resident I’m fed up of seeing the 10:11, 11:11 and 12:11 departures from Leeds being four carriages in length.

Looks like 1E73 (1727 ex Plymouth) which is the return of 1V54 will split at Derby from May indicating that it is to become a double set.

 

[swt_passenger]

I use a website called www.realtimetrains.co.uk.
[…]
CrossCountry Voyagers are stabled at Barton Under Needwood, Eastleigh, Long Rock, Laira, Bristol Barton Hill, Crofton, Reading Train-Care, Tyne Yard, Longsight and Craigentinny depots.

XC don’t use Reading, can’t remember when they last did, does anyone remember?
It’s only a few weeks until Long Rock (Penzance) ceases with the May timetable changes.

 

[quantinghome]

I use a website called www.realtimetrains.co.uk.

It will tell you the allocation for the journey on the day of departure, up to around 5 hours or so before departure, but can be more depending on the diagram.

Yep, I use it too. It's fine for the allocations on the day, but doesn't show what they're going to be after the timetable change.

 

[Wyrleybart]

XC don’t use Reading, can’t remember when they last did, does anyone remember?
It’s only a few weeks until Long Rock (Penzance) ceases with the May timetable changes.

Don't ever recall any XC train on the various Reading depots, although I think there was a trial a few years ago.

 

[45076]

Good evening, can anyone provide information on which units are stored and where they are?

 

[Liam L]

Good evening, can anyone provide information on which units are stored and where they are?

I can't give locations however the information I seen is it's 221101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,110,111,112,113,117,118 are in storage currently.