Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

[dk1]

Is it likely that 144 will be reformed into a 4-car set and returned to service or just leave the driving coaches as spares?

Returned to service in 2017.

 

[NEDdrv]

Is it still not coach L when doubled? That's the one I aim for. On occasion, the displays show nothing (which is no help) or seem to be configured for First Class, with a pair of seats shown as available/blank, but they do seem to be all free when I get on them.

Believe it is coach H which is in effect coach B of the second set

 

[Danfilm007]

Returned to service in 2017.

Ah my apologies!

 

[louis97]

It’s been coach B and H if 10 cars for years, coach F and L were also used during or just after Covid but that changed last year

Is it still not coach L when doubled? That's the one I aim for. On occasion, the displays show nothing (which is no help) or seem to be configured for First Class, with a pair of seats shown as available/blank, but they do seem to be all free when I get on them.

Believe it is coach H which is in effect coach B of the second set

Coach L is also unreserved (along with Coach H if available) on a double set, yes. XC in reality only reserve in the second set on a small number of trains on a weekday and on the Cardiff to Edinburgh services. So if you're travelling at a weekend, it is almost guaranteed that the second set won't have any reservations at all.

 

[Killingworth]

Coach L is also unreserved (along with Coach H if available) on a double set, yes. XC in reality only reserve in the second set on a small number of trains on a weekday and on the Cardiff to Edinburgh services. So if you're travelling at a weekend, it is almost guaranteed that the second set won't have any reservations at all.

But increases the chances of that unit being removed at, say, Derby!

 

[dk1]

Ah my apologies!

I’d forgotten until prompted mate.

 

[Discuss223]

Just to clarify, CrossCountry can and do operate 10 coach formations. In fact, one of the Penzance bound services was a 10 coach today. For further information, said working was formed of one ex-Avanti unit and one CrossCountry Classic unit. This suggests that the TMS modifications have been completed on this unit, and it can now work in multiple within the Voyager pool.

 

[fgwrich]

Just to clarify, CrossCountry can and do operate 10 coach formations. In fact, one of the Penzance bound services was a 10 coach today. For further information, said working was formed of one ex-Avanti unit and one CrossCountry Classic unit. This suggests that the TMS modifications have been completed on this unit, and it can now work in multiple within the Voyager pool.

They must have done as I was on 221114 out of Plymouth yesterday and rather than connecting to Avanti’s WiFi it immediately connected to XC. Then, like most XC WiFi, became fairly naff a short while later. The shop appeared to be well used too.

 

[Halish Railway]

Just to clarify, CrossCountry can and do operate 10 coach formations. In fact, one of the Penzance bound services was a 10 coach today. For further information, said working was formed of one ex-Avanti unit and one CrossCountry Classic unit. This suggests that the TMS modifications have been completed on this unit, and it can now work in multiple within the Voyager pool.

But its not ideal given that the rear carriage's doors have to be locked out at Burton and Chesterfield and most of all that such a formation would involve a five car Voyager or even both that could have been used place of a four car Voyager working on its own.

 

[Discuss223]

But its not ideal given that the rear carriage's doors have to be locked out at Burton and Chesterfield and most of all that such a formation would involve a five car Voyager or even both that could have been used place of a four car Voyager working on its own.

I wonder if Voyagers are capable of Selective Door Opening, I know Meridians are for stations such as Long Eaton (I remember the HST at places such as Langley Mill would unlock all doors and Train Managers were very concerned about customers alighting on to the ballast!).

I do agree with you, 4 coaches is adequate for a significant number of journeys. As mentioned up thread, they did replace 2 coaches on some routes.

 

[Kite159]

I wonder if Voyagers are capable of Selective Door Opening, I know Meridians are for stations such as Long Eaton (I remember the HST at places such as Langley Mill would unlock all doors and Train Managers were very concerned about customers alighting on to the ballast!).

I do agree with you, 4 coaches is adequate for a significant number of journeys. As mentioned up thread, they did replace 2 coaches on some routes.

Pretty sure voyagers lack any sort of SDO, unlike the more modern 222s.

 

[YorksLad12]

But its not ideal given that the rear carriage's doors have to be locked out at Burton and Chesterfield and most of all that such a formation would involve a five car Voyager or even both that could have been used place of a four car Voyager working on its own.

If it was just the doors I wouldn't mind; but the whole carriage is locked out, at the vestibule end. I'm guessing it's a safety thing, as you can't exit the coach by either set of doors. I did always wonder if that's why First Class on the 2x5 sets is at the ends, so that you lose a First rather than a Standard.

 

[Discuss223]

If it was just the doors I wouldn't mind; but the whole carriage is locked out, at the vestibule end. I'm guessing it's a safety thing, as you can't exit the coach by either set of doors. I did always wonder if that's why First Class on the 2x5 sets is at the ends, so that you lose a First rather than a Standard.

It's not deliberate, I don't think. XC don't make any attempt to have their units facing a certain way. It's luck of the draw. It would make more sense to have the First Class ends coupled together then First Class can be in one place, at the centre. If you reserve a seat on a XC Voyager, their system will ignore any preferences of which way you want to face too.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It's not deliberate, I don't think. XC don't make any attempt to have their units facing a certain way. It's luck of the draw. It would make more sense to have the First Class ends coupled together then First Class can be in one place, at the centre. If you reserve a seat on a XC Voyager, their system will ignore any preferences of which way you want to face too.

As an extreme, the 06.39 Nottingham Bournemouth reverses three times so it would be quite hard to keep them all the 'right' way...

 

[swt_passenger]

It's not deliberate, I don't think. XC don't make any attempt to have their units facing a certain way. It's luck of the draw. It would make more sense to have the First Class ends coupled together then First Class can be in one place, at the centre. If you reserve a seat on a XC Voyager, their system will ignore any preferences of which way you want to face too.

It would be almost impossible to keep XC units one particular way round, whatever you tried, given the essential reversals on some routes such as at Reading or Birmingham New St, and the various places where signallers have a choice of routeing on the day that may or may not reverse a unit or pair, such as when approaching from the southwest towards New Street. Add route retention excursions such as via Guildford, and it all becomes just far too complicated…

 

[Trainman40083]

Pretty sure voyagers lack any sort of SDO, unlike the more modern 222s.

I have checked. The Cross Country Voyagers do NOT have selective door opening. Given stations such as Chesterfield and Totnes, and probably others only accommodate 8 coaches on the platform, I guess one coach has to be locked out.

 

[Kite159]

I have checked. The Cross Country Voyagers do NOT have selective door opening. Given stations such as Chesterfield and Totnes, and probably others only accommodate 8 coaches on the platform, I guess one coach has to be locked out.

Unless XC keeps the longer services for those which skip Chesterfield. Totnes is probably more of an issue as from memory everything is booked to call there

 

[Trainman40083]

Unless XC keeps the longer services for those which skip Chesterfield. Totnes is probably more of an issue as from memory everything is booked to call there

I wonder if there are other "short" platforms on XC, where double sets may operate?

 

[NEDdrv]

I have checked. The Cross Country Voyagers do NOT have selective door opening. Given stations such as Chesterfield and Totnes, and probably others only accommodate 8 coaches on the platform, I guess one coach has to be locked out.

Chesterfield is 9X for XC voyagers

 

[absolutelymilk]

Are all the 221s now in service with Cross-Country?

 

[Trainman40083]

Are all the 221s now in service with Cross-Country?

Sorry I thought most were still parked at Litchurch Lane.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are all the 221s now in service with Cross-Country?

May timetable

 

[Trainman40083]

May timetable

I thought XC were looking to reduce services in May.

 

[duffield]

I thought XC were looking to reduce services in May.

Do you have a reference for that? I thought there was supposed to be a small increase in services on the Newcastle/York to Reading route, with the extra 221s being involved

Edit: And also extend the Cambridge terminators to Stansted Airport, though that doesn't relate to the 221s

 

[Trainman40083]

Do you have a reference for that? I thought there was supposed to be a small increase in services on the Newcastle/York to Reading route, with the extra 221s being involved

Edit: And also extend the Cambridge terminators to Stansted Airport, though that doesn't relate to the 221s

Somewhere I read that there was a suggestion of 46 services being taken out of the timetable.. The only place I would have seen that was in one of these forums. Maybe they won't run 170s on Sundays.

 

[duffield]

Somewhere I read that there was a suggestion of 46 services being taken out of the timetable.. The only place I would have seen that was in one of these forums. Maybe they won't run 170s on Sundays.

I've seen very opaque rumours here about something important coming soon, so maybe that means another emergency timetable; given that Sundays are currently a disaster ("driver shortages") but the rest of the week seems mostly much improved since Xmas, it's possible there could both be increases on Mon-Sat and decreases on Sunday! Anyhow, this is getting a bit too speculative for this thread I guess.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are all the 221s now in service with Cross-Country?

It’s never been intended to be “all” the 221s, initially it was only going to be 7 of 20 ex WCML, this was later increased to 12 of the 20. But most of the latter 12 are not yet in service.

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought XC were looking to reduce services in May.

Nope. And even if they were, that doesn’t mean they woudlnt deploy more rollign stock. Longer trains !

The timetable you see in Real Time Trains is the one that is planned to run.

 

[Snow1964]

The timetable you see in Real Time Trains is the one that is planned to run.

XC planned timetable and what actually runs (especially Sundays) sometimes seem to be worlds away.

Using XC published figures (4 most recent periods, periods 9-12)
cancellations 13.6%, 12.3%, 6.7%, 3.4%
short formation 3.9%, 4.6%, 4.2%, 3.6%
added together (not as planned) 17.5%, 16.9%, 10.9%, 7.0%

So big question is will the extra 221s eliminate the short formations

Key Business Performance Indicators | CrossCountry

Discover CrossCountry's train performance, including delays and cancellation rates, passenger satisfaction, and complaints.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

 

[Class15]

Always found the Voyagers under Avanti an absolute pleasure. Far superior to the claustrophobic, nauseating Pendolinos. Hopefully XC can keep them in a semi decent state now like Avanti did.

I agree with you mate. A great shame that they have left Avanti as they were so far superior to the Pendolinos, and hopefully XC can make good use of them to expand their services.