Train ticket retailers charging my card with an MCC which doesn't specify train ticket purchase

[miklcct]

Recently, after Chase changed the cashback terms and conditions, I have difficulty obtaining cashback for my train ticket purchases. It has specifically listed train ticket purchases are eligible, but I have bought train tickets from two different third party retailers and they didn't earn me any cashback, because the MCC (merchant category code) was wrong.

One was from Uber Travel and it used 4211 (taxis and limousines), another was from Trainsplit, and it used 4722 (travel agencies), after querying the customer support of the bank. These two codes are not codes for railways / passenger trains so they didn't result in cashback from my bank. I tried to contact Uber support and the support team was useless and couldn't even understand what I was talking about.

I bought some high value tickets from these retailers and would like to rectify the issue. As a consumer who should I escalate to in order to get the cashback by buying train tickets? It seems that Uber and Trainsplit lied to the card network the nature of the transactions, but legally do I have any recourse?

The following are my transaction records. As seen, I couldn't obtain 1% cashback from bank which was a significant amount in the second case.

 

[skyhigh]

but legally do I have any recourse?

No.

You say the second case is "a significant amount". Assuming the second case is the £32.56 purchase, you've missed out on the princely sum of 32p in cashback.

In total you're missing around 50p. The time you took to write this post was probably worth more than that.

The Chase T&C's say:

We don’t control what type of code a merchant is given. So, in some cases, a merchant might sell something that seems eligible for cashback but because of the merchant’s category code, the transaction isn’t eligible.

You could always ask Chase if they'd credit you the 50p, but otherwise my advice would be just get over it, move on and in future use a different retailer.

 

[Titfield]

I am not sure they have lied in terms of the merchant code:

Trainsplit is a travel agency - an organisation that acts as an agent / intermediary on behalf of numerous providers. They do not operate the trains themselves.

Uber Travel provides taxi and limousines though it could be argued they are in fact more akin to a booking agency in that afaik they do not operate the vehicles themselves.

When an organisation signs up to accept payment cards their status as an organisation is quite carefully determined.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The Latin phrase "De minimis non curat lex" comes to mind here.

 

[miklcct]

No.

You say the second case is "a significant amount". Assuming the second case is the £32.56 purchase, you've missed out on the princely sum of 32p in cashback.

In total you're missing around 50p. The time you took to write this post was probably worth more than that.

The Chase T&C's say:


You could always ask Chase if they'd credit you the 50p, but otherwise my advice would be just get over it, move on and in future use a different retailer.

Does it mean that consumers can't do anything even when the merchants lie to the bank about their nature of business, apart from refusing to use the bank / merchant?

In this case, I can think of a conspiracy theory that the merchants deliberately lie to the bank so that they get an excuse of not giving cashback, despite that the bank promotes a cashback scheme, such that the bank can get away quoting that it's the merchant's problem submitting a wrong MCC code.

 

[miklcct]

I am not sure they have lied in terms of the merchant code:

Trainsplit is a travel agency - an organisation that acts as an agent / intermediary on behalf of numerous providers. They do not operate the trains themselves.

Uber Travel provides taxi and limousines though it could be argued they are in fact more akin to a booking agency in that afaik they do not operate the vehicles themselves.

When an organisation signs up to accept payment cards their status as an organisation is quite carefully determined.

Chase has given Trainline as an example of a train retainer which qualifies for cashback. Trainsplit's nature is exactly the same.

 

[Haywain]

I couldn't obtain 1% cashback from bank which was a significant amount in the second case.

35p is a "significant amount"? What's worrying here is that you seem to be serious about this.

 

[mikeg]

Merchant category codes represent the overall nature of a business, not the individual item booked. Thus Uber's taxis and limousines code is entirely reasonable. Trainsplit's MCC of travel agencies is a bit more vague, I grant you, but still is just about accurate. Many merchants have multiple codes to choose from, that is there are multiple ways in which their primary business could be described. I don't think they're lying, just describing it differently. It's unfortunate that Chase has chosen to limit cashback to certain MCCs. But there are other cards available, particularly from the likes of American Express and Barclaycard Platinum Rewards, which give cashback (granted, not as generous) on the vast majority of Merchant Category Codes and therefore may be more advantageous overall.

 

[Starmill]

Does it mean that consumers can't do anything even when the merchants lie to the bank about their nature of business, apart from refusing to use the bank / merchant?

The Merchant has not lied.

If you go to an art museum and purchase an Americano coffee from them, but nothing else, you may end up with the the transaction being reported under an art dealer code or a tourist attraction code, rather than your expectation of a food and beverage code. This is the way the category codes are intended to work.

It's Chase who are using them for something which is a very very poor fit. The issue is with them - if you don't like it my suggestion would be to complain to Chase, who will no doubt tell you they can't help you. Find a better credit card or cashback card provider I'd suggest. Complaining to the merchants is a complete waste of both of your time. I am not surprised Uber didn't understand what you were complaining about.

In this case, I can think of a conspiracy theory that the merchants deliberately lie to the bank so that they get an excuse of not giving cashback, despite that the bank promotes a cashback scheme, such that the bank can get away quoting that it's the merchant's problem submitting a wrong MCC code.

The cashback is an incentive paid to you by the card issuer on commercial terms. It has to be covered by the fees they receive from merchants on a commercial basis. The merchant does not pay more to a customer who collects cashback vs one who doesn't. They pay according to the card scheme agreement.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Does it mean that consumers can't do anything even when the merchants lie to the bank about their nature of business, apart from refusing to use the bank / merchant?

In this case, I can think of a conspiracy theory that the merchants deliberately lie to the bank so that they get an excuse of not giving cashback, despite that the bank promotes a cashback scheme, such that the bank can get away quoting that it's the merchant's problem submitting a wrong MCC code.

So this would be a conspiracy involving both the banks and the merchants, with the banks persuading the merchants to wrongly report their MCC code* so as to avoid paying cashback - as in your case it is the bank (Chase Bank) paying the cashback, not the merchants.

In this conspiracy theory of yours do the conspiring merchants then get a kickback from Chase? And what benefit does Chase Bank get from misleading and dissapointing their banking customers.

Meanwhile back in the real world this issue of people hoping to benefit from cashback from their bank but finding out the merchant's MCC is such that it is not covered has been around for a long time - you can search back in time (on say the MoneySavingExpert forum) to see that people had issues with Santander's 123 Current Account (no longer offered to new customers) and transactions not using MCC codes that qualified.

(Yes, I have written it as Merchant Category Codes Codes... I reserve my right to talk about PIN numbers and ATM machines too!)


No conspiracy, but it is a pity that Trainsplit doesn't use a qualifying MCC - the money savvy might be tempted to shop elsewhere.

 

[Buzby]

I would suggest the MCC code is a matter that hs nothing to do with the consumer - the arrangement being between the bank and the merchant. The fact some entities have turned this into a promotional mechanism is ingenious as it is flawed. My Santander 1-2-3 card used this when it was introduced around 10 years ago and the the actual benefits do not trickle down with any reliability - pretty much the same percentage when tracking Groupon discounts and the like. There are times it works and others when it doesn’t, but as you won’t know until after the event it’ll be too late to do anything except remember and NOT use that merchant next time you want to buy.

 

[Titfield]

I wonder if the fact that Trainline charges a booking fee (except on the day on app bookings) indirectly influences their "willingness" to allow cashback to be earned. Commission earned by travel agents on rail bookings is negligible.

 

[greatkingrat]

It works both ways. If you go to Tesco and buy a new TV, you will probably get cashback, even though it is not groceries.

 

[OscarH]

MCCs are pretty much an RNG that retailers don't have huge control over, basically every business fits into multiple, and trying to identify purchases based on that seems like a terrible idea.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I wonder if the fact that Trainline charges a booking fee (except on the day on app bookings) indirectly influences their "willingness" to allow cashback to be earned. Commission earned by travel agents on rail bookings is negligible.

The cashback the OP is referring to is nothing to do with the merchant - it is offered by Chase Bank (UK) to their banking customers as an incentive to bank with them.

It's a different scenario to cashback offered by say Top Cashback or Quidco etc (which is paid by the merchant in question).

 

[miklcct]

We are generally advised to make a small purchase first to "test the water" for these kind of cashback promotions, which I did on Uber by buying a low-value train ticket, but it isn't possible every time (when I don't have some low-value tickets to buy, like the second purchase shown).

The KeyGo charges from Thameslink did quality for cashback on Chase, but I hadn't tried buying tickets from ticket machines or online yet. I'll need to buy about £13 worth of tickets tomorrow from a Thameslink ticket machine (because the ticket I'm trying to obtain can't be bought online).

Has anyone tried any other train ticket retailers with Chase and can tell me which one else doesn't work? Thanks. I have a few expensive trips (in the range of £30 return or even more) planned in the next months and want to make sure that I can obtain the maximum incentive for these journeys.

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if the fact that Trainline charges a booking fee (except on the day on app bookings) indirectly influences their "willingness" to allow cashback to be earned. Commission earned by travel agents on rail bookings is negligible.

They can't control the deal the card issuer gives their customers. The only thing they can ultimately control is which of the three main card schemes' cards they accept! Obviously nearly all UK-based merchants take Visa and Mastercard now, as they have enormous market power, and lots also take American Express. There are a few niche ones, or they can accept none, which is equally niche.

The fact some entities have turned this into a promotional mechanism is ingenious as it is flawed.

Exactly right.

 

[Joe Paxton]

We are generally advised to make a small purchase first to "test the water" for these kind of cashback promotions, which I did on Uber by buying a low-value train ticket, but it isn't possible every time (when I don't have some low-value tickets to buy, like the second purchase shown).

The KeyGo charges from Thameslink did quality for cashback on Chase, but I hadn't tried buying tickets from ticket machines or online yet. I'll need to buy about £13 worth of tickets tomorrow from a Thameslink ticket machine (because the ticket I'm trying to obtain can't be bought online).

Has anyone tried any other train ticket retailers with Chase and can tell me which one else doesn't work? Thanks. I have a few expensive trips (in the range of £30 return or even more) planned in the next months and want to make sure that I can obtain the maximum incentive for these journeys.

This is a far more sensible post from the OP! - i.e. trying to crowdsource information from others on what has and hasn't worked.

I'd fully expect transactions with a Thameslink TVM or ticket office to use a qualifying MCC (that of Govia Thameslink Railway/GTR) - likewise KeyGo is offered directly by GTR.

Similarly any transaction directly with a TOC will use a qualifying MCC - whether online, ticket office or TVM.

(Though I have to say wouldn't really class £30 return as an "expensive" trip! But it's all relative and subjective.)

 

[Starmill]

One tip @miklcct you can use Google to search the MoneySavingExpert forum for the MCC queries. For the avoidance of any doubt, I don't mean you can't ask here, or that if you do nobody will answer, indeed they probably will. However, it's sometimes the case the question was already asked there.

 

[James H]

@miklcct Have you considered opening a Sumup Pay account? This pays 0.5% cashback on most purchases, and can be linked to your Chase account so it simply takes the payment for each transaction from Chase, rather than having to maintain a separate balance in Sumup Pay.

I've been using it for some purchases that are outside the scope of Chase's cut-down cashback scheme..

 

[Adam Williams]

when the merchants lie to the bank about their nature of business

Stripe set Raileasy's MCC, not the other way around. And they did that with full knowledge of Raileasy's business model and the sector they operate in. Indeed, there was a long set of conversations and negotiations before Raileasy was on-boarded. Some of it went into excruciating detail on the financials and level of risk involved with rail retail as well.

Please don't suggest that anyone has set out to "lie" or actively mislead here, because that's absolutely not the case.

You simply don't get any control over this on a per-transaction basis (the only control Stripe give is for "platform" merchants - think Shopify - who are using the Stripe Connect platform; that is not something that Raileasy does).

 

[MikeWh]

I can understand where @miklcct is coming from, though an accusation of lying when the process is not understood was inadvisable. Any further accusations on those lines will get removed.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

Chase themselves say that seemingly eligible transactions may not earn cashback due to the MCC. (https://www.chase.co.uk/gb/en/support/where-can-i-earn-cashback/)

Merchants are given a specific code based on the type of things they sell. This is called a Merchant Category Code (MCC). We don't assign or decide a merchant's MCC – but we use their code to work out whether you can earn cashback on a purchase. Just so you know – sometimes purchases might seem eligible for cashback, but aren't because of their MCC.

 

[Flying Snail]

Does it mean that consumers can't do anything even when the merchants lie to the bank about their nature of business, apart from refusing to use the bank / merchant?

In this case, I can think of a conspiracy theory that the merchants deliberately lie to the bank so that they get an excuse of not giving cashback, despite that the bank promotes a cashback scheme, such that the bank can get away quoting that it's the merchant's problem submitting a wrong MCC code.

Accusations of lying and a conspiracy to steal 35p from you...

Thanks, I have missed the many laughs your once regular forays into wild overreactions and inability to accept the world isn't custom designed around your peculiarities creates.

 

[Cowley]

I think we can probably call it a day here.

Thanks everyone