Avanti London to Glasgow Record Attempt 07/05/2025

[peter166]

I received this email from Modern Railways last week regarding tickets for an Avanti record attempt on the London Euston to Glasgow route scheduled for this Wednesday 07/05/2025. The 20 tickets all appeared to sell very quickly. There does not appear to be any timings as yet on Realtime Trains.
Does anyone have any further details

On Wednesday 7 May, Avanti West Coast will attempt to break the record for the fastest rail journey between London Euston and Glasgow Central. Passengers need to arrive at Euston by 09.30 before the Avanti West Coast Pendolino will attempt to break the current record of 3 hrs 52mins 40secs, and you can be part of this historic attempt. Modern Railways has 20 Standard Class tickets available for this special event. These are exclusively for our subscribers and industry colleagues on a first come, first served basis. Costing just £125, the Standard Class ticket includes complimentary food and drink. Free return travel to either Preston, Crewe or Euston is available on a special service departing Glasgow Central around 15.00. The £125 fare will be donated to the Railway Benefit Fund.​

BOOK YOUR TICKETS NOW​

Be quick, once the 20 tickets are sold there are no more!​ ​

 

[brad465]

IIRC the last attempt, done during covid, missed the record by a mere 21 seconds! I believe a future run though will have the advantage of the Carstairs' remodelling allowing faster passage through this area.

 

[kacper]

This event has been postponed due to signalling issues

 

[peter166]

That is disappointing but not unexpected. Signalling issues seem to appear at numerous locations on a daily basis.
Whats the chance of it being re-scheduled?

 

[Railperf]

That is disappointing but not unexpected. Signalling issues seem to appear at numerous locations on a daily basis.
Whats the chance of it being re-scheduled?

As per posts in other threads (not sure how to link to them) there is an issue at Camden causing up to 2.5 min delay. Whereas Carstairs TSR only cost 1.5 min. So no way you would attempt a record under these circumstances. The attempt was supposed to be part of the Rail200 celebration, so it sounds like they still hope to run it once the signals can be fixed.

 

[Some guy]

It’s been postponed until September

 

[dangie]

Not wishing to be a killjoy, but I don’t see the reason for these planned ‘record attempts’. To me it should only be counted as a record time if it was done during a time tabled service run without any prior planning. What is really the point if the normal service time is half an hour slower?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Not wishing to be a killjoy, but I don’t see the reason for these planned ‘record attempts’. To me it should only be counted as a record time if it was done during a time tabled service run without any prior planning. What is really the point if the normal service time is half an hour slower?

You are being a killjoy.

This is essentially a good marketing and publicity exercise, providing it goes right, or almost right.

It raises the profile of the railway, will no doubt make it on to all of the mainstream media channels, not just the railway press, and is probably good politically, as you can show that the infrastructure is in such good condition to allow for a record breaking performance. It generally increases confidence and public opinion.

It will inevitably also feed into the narrative of needing faster services, between England and Scotland, which can then allow HS2 to be brought into the positive discussion.

Finally, think about who is actually going to be on the train when it does run - a significant number will be sceptical local leaders and politicians who the railway would rather like to have on their side again.

 

[Snow1964]

You are being a killjoy.

This is essentially a good marketing and publicity exercise, providing it goes right, or almost right.

Unfortunately it hasn't, joining the unreliable railway and likely to be cancelled showcase.

Statistically Avanti doesn't do well, with 3% cancelled and less than half (46.1%) on time

Punctuality & Performance | Avanti West Coast

At the heart of best quality service is the punctuality and reliability of our trains. Learn about our commitment to punctuality and see our punctuality reports.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

 

[dangie]

….and is probably good politically, as you can show that the infrastructure is in such good condition to allow for a record breaking performance.

But it was cancelled because the infrastructure wasn’t in such good condition. Surely infrastructure should be in good condition all the time not just for a planned run? Yes I know this isn’t 100% possible.

Finally, think about who is actually going to be on the train when it does run - a significant number will be sceptical local leaders and politicians who the railway would rather like to have on their side again.

That can really go against you. The media had a field day with the APT.

 

[Railperf]

Not wishing to be a killjoy, but I don’t see the reason for these planned ‘record attempts’. To me it should only be counted as a record time if it was done during a time tabled service run without any prior planning. What is really the point if the normal service time is half an hour slower?

The fact you can get board and hourly train from London to Glasgow in 4.5 hours onboard a service train is great considering today's West Coast Mail line was never designed for 125mph in the first place and despite the fact that the West Coast upgrade was never completed to its full potential. These record runs - rare as they are - inspire people to experience the train as a fast and reasonably reliable form of transport. It also helps people to see why the WCML in its current form struggles to cope with an overload of freight, regional and commuter services to the detriment of journey times for long distance fast trains - and demonstrates why we need a longer version of HS2 if we want to reliably get London to Scotland journeys down to under 4 hours and closer to 3.

 

[CEN60]

The fact you can get board and hourly train from London to Glasgow in 4.5 hours onboard a service train is great considering today's West Coast Mail line was never designed for 125mph in the first place and despite the fact that the West Coast upgrade was never completed to its full potential. These record runs - rare as they are - inspire people to experience the train as a fast and reasonably reliable form of transport. It also helps people to see why the WCML in its current form struggles to cope with an overload of freight, regional and commuter services to the detriment of journey times for long distance fast trains - and demonstrates why we need a longer version of HS2 if we want to reliably get London to Scotland journeys down to under 4 hours and closer to 3.

As noted above above - there was a chunk of the West Coast North of Carstairs that was designed to have EPS Speeds (all the way to Newton East Jcn in fact) - the design was never implemented and the Pendos only tilt for comfort on that stretch) - so the full potential of the Pendos were never unlocked. (The designs still sit on a shelf in Network Rail but will never be implemented now) - I don't know how many minutes you'd have got - but certainly something.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I would love for the Pendolino to take the APT's record. It was robbed last time

 

[Class15]

I would love for the Pendolino to take the APT's record. It was robbed last time

On the other hand, the APT was a remarkable train that in many ways deserves to be remembered. I think it’s a bit of a cheat for the pendolinos to have a second go, they had one and they failed. The APT had one go.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On the other hand, the APT was a remarkable train that in many ways deserves to be remembered. I think it’s a bit of a cheat for the pendolinos to have a second go, they had one and they failed. The APT had one go.

It's hardly a cheat if it completes it. If it beats the time it beats the time. The record is for fastest run from London to Glasgow, and if it makes it to Glasgow faster than the APT, one can't just deny that the APT's run was beaten because it was the new winner's second attempt, nor because the APT "deserves to be remembered."

On the other hand, the APT was a remarkable train that in many ways deserves to be remembered. I think it’s a bit of a cheat for the pendolinos to have a second go, they had one and they failed. The APT had one go.

While we're at it, I think you could say for the same for the Pendolinos. The first tilting EMU that was an actual success. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[Lytham Local]

It’s been postponed until September

I wonder how long the replacement bus would take?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder how long the replacement bus would take?

Oh dear

 

[dangie]

If and when any London-Glasgow record is broken, should the accolade not go to Avanti but to Network Rail? Surely it is them who actually determine the success or otherwise of any record attempt. All Avanti really have to do is provide a Pendolino and drive it

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If and when any London-Glasgow record is broken, should the accolade not go to Avanti but to Network Rail? Surely it is them who actually determine the success or otherwise of any record attempt. All Avanti really have to do is provide a Pendolino and drive it

I don't think it really matters who gets mentioned. It's not a testament to Avanti, it's about the train itself.

 

[Railperf]

The APT record will always stand in the history books and one will never know how fast a time it could set on today's 'improved' infrastructure. On the other hand, we do know that it did suffer its own delays and could have run faster still. So as has been mentioned earlier, any record time is dependant on so many factors going right on the day. What we do want to see is progress - and the APT is effectively the son of apt. A more refined design that's proved itself on the West Coast main line for the last 22 years.

 

[The Planner]

The APT record will always stand in the history books and one will never know how fast it could go on today's 'improved infrastructure.

Why would it be any quicker than a 390?

 

[Sorcerer]

Considering how close it came last time, I think the Pendolino has a real chance at beating the northbound record this time around, and without the Carstairs speed restriction I think there's a good chance that we could see a 3 hour 51 minute or even a 3 hour 50 minute run, but everything will need to go right on this rather delicate timing for that to happen. What does everyone else think? Will we see a new record or will it fall short once again?

 

[Class15]

Why would it be any quicker than a 390?

It was quicker on the old infrastructure than the 390 on the new infrastructure!

 

[The Planner]

It was quicker on the old infrastructure than the 390 on the new infrastructure!

Didnt it get dispensation to ignore some speed limits?

 

[MatthewHutton]

I wonder how long the replacement bus would take?

Depends if you have to stick to the speed limits!

I am sure 02:00-06:00 on a Saturday night that without a speed limited you could do it in under 3h52.

 

[dangie]

I don't think it really matters who gets mentioned. It's not a testament to Avanti, it's about the train itself.

Would any planned record run be a timetabled stopping service or a nonstop run?

 

[milooo]

Would any planned record run be a timetabled stopping service or a nonstop run?

I think it is non stop, I am not sure though

 

[3RDGEN]

With thanks to "P G Barlow" there is a record of the APT run here; "https://www.apt-p.com/PGBarlow.htm" - 1Z98 Special APT press run 16:35 Euston – Glasgow 3h 52m 40s.

The run did include a 2 minute stand south of Stafford for signaling issues and numerous TSR's, it would have gone sub 3h 50m otherwise but it was running above 125mph however on the old infrastructure, aren't Crewe, Rugby & Carstairs quicker now than 1984? Can't see the point in breaking the record by a few mins after 40 years, 3h 45 would be a good target.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It will inevitably also feed into the narrative of needing faster services, between England and Scotland, which can then allow HS2 to be brought into the positive discussion.

It also helps people to see why the WCML in its current form struggles to cope with an overload of freight, regional and commuter services to the detriment of journey times for long distance fast trains - and demonstrates why we need a longer version of HS2 if we want to reliably get London to Scotland journeys down to under 4 hours and closer to 3.

You do realise that HS2 north of Birmingham was cancelled after the last attempt and if it manages to get there a few seconds quicker this time it will have no effect at all on that decision?

 

[aar0]

Didnt it get dispensation to ignore some speed limits?

With thanks to "P G Barlow" there is a record of the APT run here; "https://www.apt-p.com/PGBarlow.htm" - 1Z98 Special APT press run 16:35 Euston – Glasgow 3h 52m 40s.

The run did include a 2 minute stand south of Stafford for signaling issues and numerous TSR's, it would have gone sub 3h 50m otherwise but it was running above 125mph however on the old infrastructure, aren't Crewe, Rugby & Carstairs quicker now than 1984? Can't see the point in breaking the record by a few mins after 40 years, 3h 45 would be a good target.

Several average speeds of 126mph so I imagine the limits were exceeded a bit… fascinating document!