Clergy and railways.

[vidal]

Reading the recent thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rt-revd-eric-treacy-mbr-lld.285963/ I wonder why the clergy seem to be overly represented in the ranks of rail enthusiasts?

James

 

[Woolos 22]

They were able to go train spotting in the weekday when most trains were running.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

Traditionally they had the free time to indulge their hobby in an era when many people worked 5½ days per week

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

RPI's let them off! :-P

 

[Clarence Yard]

On the Western, it was not unknown for railwaymen to actually join the clergy!

 

[DerekC]

This reminds me of the story I was told - that in the days of compartment stock, a well known clergyman always got a compartment to himself. At stations he let down the window, leaned out with dog collar and big smile on display and called "come in, my children" to anyone approaching.

 

[AndrewBiro]

God's transport; "And the glory of His train filled the Temple"

 

[StewartB]

Perhaps Reverend Awdry was an inspiration.

 

[Ashley Hill]

One mustn’t forget the Railway Mission who offer pastoral care to railway employees.
The film The Titfield Thunderbolt had both a vicar and bishop who were both obsessed with railways. And an episode of Last of the Summer Wine featured a railway modelling vicar.

 

[TUC]

Traditionally they had the free time to indulge their hobby in an era when many people worked 5½ days per week

Anyone who thinks leading a church is only about a Sunday morning service has never led a church.

 

[The exile]

Anyone who thinks leading a church is only about a Sunday morning service has never led a church.

Certainly true now, but less so in the past where clergymen were often the younger sons of landed families (so weren’t financially dependent on their stipend) and were much freer than most to determine when they did their work.
Another element is that clergymen have a tendency to be noticeable - both in terms of what they wear and (in more formal times in particular) in their title. A group of 10 people admiring a steam loco might be made up of 3 clergymen and 7 undertakers - but assuming they were all off duty it would be the clergymen you’d notice (and yes, I know they are never “off duty”!)

 

[rower40]

The railway, and each organised religion, are all certain that they are the best means of getting Man to his ultimate destination.

 

[Magdalia]

Traditionally they had the free time to indulge their hobby in an era when many people worked 5½ days per week

In the days of steam the Church of England was very different from now. Even small villages would have their own parish priest, and didn't have to share with other villages nearby. Bigger parishes would also have a curate, a sort of apprentice vicar. There were a lot more vicars and curates to do the pastoral work, which tended to be intermittent, so vicars really did have a lot of spare time during the week to indulge their interests.

Doctors in general practice was similarly well resourced in steam days. The renowned East Anglian railway photographer Dr Ian Allen was a general practice doctor.

 

[zero]

At university in London I was acquainted with the Catholic chaplain, who was a rail enthusiast. In addition to his university functions, he said Mass every evening at a local religious community as well as the main Sunday service, so he basically worked 7 days a week (and in theory he was meant to be available 24/7, although as one might expect it was extremely rare to get any "call-outs").

On some weekday mornings he also had duties in religious communities outside London, which involved travel by train. Outside the academic term, he was dispatched all over the UK as a "relief" priest, which also allowed him to indulge his hobby - and all on expenses

 

[30907]

The story is told of the country incumbent who, every afternoon, walked down to the station to watch the express pass. Questioned about this, he supposedly replied, "it's the only thing in the parish that moves without me pushing it."

BTW CofE clergy (I am one, but retired) officially work a 6-day week, but I'm not aware that interest in railways has diminished. It is common among musicians too - my teenage church organist of 30 years ago has had an interesting railway career and is now an LNER driver.

 

[ThirteenArches]

O Jesu Christ, remember,
When Thou shall come again,
Upon the clouds of heaven,
With all thy shining train...

A clergyman's stipend was a bit hit and miss, but some not only had the spare time but a good amount of money too. And, at least in the C of E, nobody expected them to be overenthusiastic about religion. That was bad manners. Until the 1960s, when they started to get serious and suddenly realised that they'd invented morality and social conscience. Probably got Pope John XXIII to thank for that, but that would be an ecumenical matter.

 

[6Gman]

The previous post reminds me how often I wish there was a "like" button on here!

Historically, CoE Vicars were over-represented in a number of hobbies, not just railway enthusiasm.

Lots of amateur naturalists, for example, were clergymen. For similar reasons.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Allegedly there was the connection between timetables and religious texts - a little fantastical in places. A popular game amongst the clergy in the days of a large network was finding the fastest route between obscure station A and obscure station B with bonuses for the minimum changes etc.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

God's Wonderful Railway built TEMPLE Meads and the Rev W Audrey wrote Thomas the Tank Engine, (who always wanted to be a GW pannier)

The green engine always caused the least trouble

 

[Mag_seven]

Lots of amateur naturalists, for example, were clergymen.

I almost thought you said they were something else there.

 

[The exile]

I almost thought you said they were something else there.

Well, there’s Parsons’ Pleasure in Oxford!!!

 

[Helvellyn]

Not necessarily more free time but.possibly more flexibility with their time gave an ability to be out and about in daylight hours. Whilst not rich they would likely have a house as part of their position so potentially gave more disposable income to then purchase a camera and film for example.

What's fascinating today is people from the Arts who are open about their interests in railways, or at least railway modelling - Pete Waterman, Jools Holland, Rod Stewart and Eddie Izzard (the latter getting into it via their father and brother) as starters.

 

[30907]

If anyone has a Locospotters' Annual (Ian Allan) for c.1961, there is an apposite article. Shame I gave mine away many years ago...

Oh, and BTW Cecil J Allen of blessed memory was a devout (non-CofE) Christian.

 

[John Webb]

In part, the reason for many clergy having other interests is that for many years in the distant past you could only get a degree by including divinity as part of the degree. An example of this is 'Lewis Carroll' (Revd Charles L Dodgson) who went to Oxford to study mathematics! (Mind you, there was a strong tradition in his family of being a parson.)

The other reason in part is that in industrial areas serviced by railways, as most were, many local clergy served the railway people in their parishes and so came in contact with them, particularly for weddings, christenings and funerals. Bishop Eric Treacy is a prime example of this sort of contact.

 

[181]

BTW CofE clergy (I am one, but retired) officially work a 6-day week, but I'm not aware that interest in railways has diminished. It is common among musicians too - my teenage church organist of 30 years ago has had an interesting railway career and is now an LNER driver.

In the opening pages of The End of the Line (1955), Bryan Morgan suggests that the appeal of railways may be to do with the contrast between 'the romantic appeal of a moving train and the classic discipline which it observes', and that 'there is a tendency...for British railway enthusiasm to be strongest in those professions which themselves contain a balance of the formal and the emotional -- music, teaching, the church, the writing of detective stories'.

I'm also reminded of a Methodist minister who I used to know, who had been a BR management trainee before entering the ministry, and joked about having left one organization that was unpopular with the public and burdened with crumbling Victorian infrastructure in order to work for another with similar characteristics.

The railway, and each organised religion, are all certain that they are the best means of getting Man to his ultimate destination.

The Rev. W. Awdry is quoted in his biography as mentioning both that, and the expensive-to-maintain Gothic architecture; no doubt both points have been made many times.

 

[MadMac]

The Reverend Lovejoy in The Simpsons has been portrayed playing with his trains.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Perhaps Reverend Awdry was an inspiration.

There were celerical railway enthusiasts long before he published his first book *80 years ago this month, as it happens, there was an item on the BBC news about it yesterday)

A favourite line from the Titfield Thunderbolt - on being reminded that the Canterbury & Whitstable line had not survived the cuts that now threatened Titfield, the vicar replies "perhaps there were not men of sufficient faith - in Canterbury"

 

[Calthrop]

Oh, and BTW Cecil J Allen of blessed memory was a devout (non-CofE) Christian.

A guy whom, to be honest, I find rather unlikeable -- thanks largely, to things Christianity-related which come through in some of his writings. This, nothing to do with what brand of Christian he was: it's about his seeming personal approach to, and "take" on, the matter. He strikes me as a bad advertisement for his faith. More generally -- in my own personal experience, have encountered quite a number of railway enthusiasts who were active, often "civilian", Christians.

In the opening pages of The End of the Line (1955), Bryan Morgan suggests that the appeal of railways may be to do with the contrast between 'the romantic appeal of a moving train and the classic discipline which it observes', and that 'there is a tendency...for British railway enthusiasm to be strongest in those professions which themselves contain a balance of the formal and the emotional -- music, teaching, the church, the writing of detective stories'.

(My bolding) -- this was, I gather, the "day job" of Morgan; who was a serious, though un-bigoted, (lay) Catholic. I have tried one of his detective novels. Whilst for me, his non-fiction-re-foreign-parts writings (especially The End of the Line) are totally magical: I found the 'tec novel -- not awful, but fairly humdrum; don't think that I even managed to finish it, and was not encouraged to try any more such by him.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

A guy whom, to be honest, I find rather unlikeable -- thanks largely, to things Christianity-related which come through in some of his writings. This, nothing to do with what brand of Christian he was: it's about his seeming personal approach to, and "take" on, the matter. He strikes me as a bad advertisement for his faith..

Yes, I agree - his writing style and 'views' are very jarring to the modern reader. I remember reading an article of his about train performance in Belgium, complaining bitterly about some sloppy running he'd encountered and laced with some unpleasant xenophobic remarks. Poor running in Britain was, of course, unheard of.