TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[Andyh82]

I mean from a passenger perspective the B9s are dreadful because of the lack of upkeep or any kind of refurb, and the engine chugging is particularly unpleasant and annoyingly loud.

Some of them had a interior refresh under Go North West didn’t they?

 

[mayneway]

Some of them had an interior refresh under Go North West didn’t they?

Yeah mainly the Green Ex 135 branded ones but even the ones that still carry the First seating are not that bad.
Honestly speaking though considering TFGM has had them a year it would have made sense to paint and maybe retrim them.
I would imagine these will fetch a lot more than the Scania’s currently trying to be sold by Ensign.

 

[darylyates17]

Yeah mainly the Green Ex 135 branded ones but even the ones that still carry the First seating are not that bad.
Honestly speaking though considering TFGM has had them a year it would have made sense to paint and maybe retrim them.
I would imagine these will fetch a lot more than the Scania’s currently trying to be sold by Ensign.

I wont be surprised if Ensign buy these B9s too but TfGM will get more for them than the Scanias did.

 

[JD2168]

Some of the Bee Network Scania Omnicity’s are currently parked up at First South Yorkshire Olive Grove depot.

 

[mayneway]

I wont be surprised if Ensign buy these B9s too but TfGM will get more for them than the Scanias did.

I’m sceptical they will go to Ensign. I was told a while ago by a manager at work that TFGM were in talks with another local authority (guessing Merseyside) about selling them into them for franchising there.
Unlike the Scania’s - the B9’s have had a lot of money spent on them by TFGM, several have had complete engine rebuilds while at Stagecoach so they will want their money back for them!

Some of the Bee Network Scania Omnicity’s are currently parked up at First South Yorkshire Olive Grove depot.

Be a long drive down to ensign - most won’t go over 30mph.

 

[darylyates17]

I’m sceptical they will go to Ensign. I was told a while ago by a manager at work that TFGM were in talks with another local authority (guessing Merseyside) about selling them into them for franchising there.
Unlike the Scania’s - the B9’s have had a lot of money spent on them by TFGM, several have had complete engine rebuilds while at Stagecoach so they will want their money back for them!


Be a long drive down to ensign - most won’t go over 30mph.

They are far too old for franchising unless they are used as stop gaps like TfGM have done.

 

[py_megapixel]

Whilst on the subject of stuck fans, I find it quite comical how many of the fairly new Metroline StreetDecks have the same issue!!

I've also noticed this. What causes it exactly?
Enviro 400s seem to suffer from the same thing - not the new ones (certainly not the electrics!) but some of the 15-20 ish year old ones, that Stagecoach have vast quantities of all over the country, are horrendously loud,.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What do you base that theory on?

The absolute racket they make, the burning diesel smell, the dirty First Barbie interior, etc.

They don’t look the best but from a drivers point of view they are one of the nicest buses I’ve driven.
Ironically when they moved over to Hyde road I believe everyone was dreading them but a lot of drivers prefer them over the newer stuff.

It’s not about whether they’re nice to drive or not though, when it comes to public transport. The passenger experience is first and foremost the priority there.

 

[mayneway]

It’s not about whether they’re nice to drive or not though, when it comes to public transport. The passenger experience is first and foremost the priority there.

As @Leyland Bus has said above, the majority of passengers don’t care as long as the bus turns up and gets them where they want to go on time without issue.

 

[M60lad]

@Leyland Bus is right, I was talking to a couple of the trainers from Metroline Manchester at a event at Museum of Transport they were attending recently and they said virtually the same thing that if a driver was taking a vehicle out of depot and if a B9 was in the line up most would try and get a B9 if they could.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

The absolute racket they make, the burning diesel smell, the dirty First Barbie interior, etc.

It’s not about whether they’re nice to drive or not though, when it comes to public transport. The passenger experience is first and foremost the priority there.

As an enthusiast I've never been keen on B9s (dodges descending thunderbolt!).
But as a passenger they're alright. No noisier than many other vehicles, quite a steady ride (not bouncing all over), comfortable seats...

 

[W176 XMA]

It’s not about whether they’re nice to drive or not though, when it comes to public transport. The passenger experience is first and foremost the priority there.

Debatable as the driver spends a lot more time on the bus than the passengers, but as mentioned above the passengers priority is getting where they need to go not the colour or type of bus

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Debatable as the driver spends a lot more time on the bus than the passengers, but as mentioned above the passengers priority is getting where they need to go not the colour or type of bus

The bus driver is being paid to be there while the passengers are paying.

 

[Leyland Bus]

I've also noticed this. What causes it exactly?
Enviro 400s seem to suffer from the same thing - not the new ones (certainly not the electrics!) but some of the 15-20 ish year old ones, that Stagecoach have vast quantities of all over the country, are horrendously loud,.

From memory, on the B10BLEs and B9s it was a bearing that collapsed and thus engaged the fan drive constantly, not necessarily a defect as the fan is spinning so the engine is always cool but it is certainly more annoying than anything else... I'm not so au fait of the set up on the StreetDeck, could be similar or more likely duff electronics as they're likely to be electric fans on those...

Those B9s make me feel my age, I unwrapped alot of those as an apprentice when they were brand new (removing all the factory cellophane and floor protectors etc) and now they're on their last knockings... Where does time go..!

 

[mayneway]

The bus driver is being paid to be there while the passengers are paying.

A driver is less likely to throw in a bus they are enjoying driving if minor defects occur whereas if it’s a bus that’s hated - ie streetlite, as soon as a rouge light pops on the dash you can bet your dollar the driver will ring it in and request. Changeover - impacting passengers and services.

From memory, on the B10BLEs and B9s it was a bearing that collapsed and thus engaged the fan drive constantly, not necessarily a defect as the fan is spinning so the engine is always cool but it is certainly more annoying than anything else... I'm not so au fait of the set up on the StreetDeck, could be similar or more likely duff electronics as they're likely to be electric fans on those...

Those B9s make me feel my age, I unwrapped alot of those as an apprentice when they were brand new (removing all the factory cellophane and floor protectors etc) and now they're on their last knockings... Where does time go..!

GNW 3212 (the Manchester we’ve missed you bus) was nicknamed by drivers as ‘the road sweeper’ as the fans were stuck on full pelt.
The bus was such a pleasure to drive though as if always felt like it had a boost pack on the rear

From what i remember the B9’s with the fans stuck on temp gauges always sat just below 90 while the ones that worked properly always sat dead on 90 - just a quirky fact I always remember haha.

 

[W176 XMA]

A driver is less likely to throw in a bus they are enjoying driving if minor defects occur whereas if it’s a bus that’s hated - ie streetlite, as soon as a rouge light pops on the dash you can bet your dollar the driver will ring it in and request. Changeover - impacting passengers and services.

Very well said

GNW 3212 (the Manchester we’ve missed you bus) was nicknamed by drivers as ‘the road sweeper’ as the fans were stuck on full pelt.
The bus was such a pleasure to drive though as if always felt like it had a boost pack on the rear

From what i remember the B9’s with the fans stuck on temp gauges always sat just below 90 while the ones that worked properly always sat dead on 90 - just a quirky fact I always remember haha.

I remember 16840 being another one with the fans going full blast

 

[darylyates17]

Givern only a handful of BZLs are yet to enter service with Metroline how much longer are the B9TLs likely to remain in service?

 

[Class 466]

Givern only a handful of BZLs are yet to enter service with Metroline how much longer are the B9TLs likely to remain in service?

TFGM see some value in keeping the B9s available and in working order for as long as possible- hence why despite the continued deliveries of BZLs the number of B9s being used hasn’t dropped.

 

[47550]

Does anyone know when the Stagecoach BZLs are likely to enter service at Middleton ?

 

[M60lad]

Looks like Oldham Depot are short of vehicles as there were a couple of odd workings yesterday with E400H 12111 spending most of the day on 82 Sholver-Oldham service and also Solo SR 48105 performed a single trip on 182 (18:50 Shaw-Piccadilly).

 

[mayneway]

Looks like Oldham Depot are short of vehicles as there were a couple of odd workings yesterday with E400H 12111 spending most of the day on 82 Sholver-Oldham service and also Solo SR 48105 performed a single trip on 182 (18:50 Shaw-Piccadilly).

Saw the Solo on the 182 it was packed to the rafters.

 

[M60lad]

Depending where you were Mayneway we might have passed each other as I saw it passing Broadway Baths at about 18:40 heading home from work on 181, not to sure how true this is but I'm led to believe that the odd allocations were due to the fact that there were problems over the Bank Holiday charging the electrics up so allocation wise if it moved it went out in service on whatever route was possible within reason.

Not to sure what the ruling on Solos on 181/182 is though whether or not they are acceptable as other vehicles do get used.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Don't think it's been reported here but news from Bolton is B7s 6174-6 have been withdrawn upon reaching the 15 year age threshold (I learnt recently that some "enthusiasts" on BookFace were arguing that it's not 15 year because Metroline are running B9s ) The B7s will join the route learning fleet, with 6176 currently in the paintshop, with the other two to follow in due course.

B7 6171 has returned from conversion into a Driver Trainer and will become 9009 when it's stickered up on Monday.

 

[mayneway]

Don't think it's been reported here but news from Bolton is B7s 6174-6 have been withdrawn upon reaching the 15 year age threshold (I learnt recently that some "enthusiasts" on BookFace were arguing that it's not 15 year because Metroline are running B9s ) The B7s will join the route learning fleet, with 6176 currently in the paintshop, with the other two to follow in due course.

B7 6171 has returned from conversion into a Driver Trainer and will become 9009 when it's stickered up on Monday.

Indeed the ruling on the B9’s is they *should* be run from one depot and that depot gets dispensation on age related fines etc from TFGM. Every other operator/depot must comply to the age limits.
Shame about the B7’s though they are lovely buses to drive.

Depending where you were Mayneway we might have passed each other as I saw it passing Broadway Baths at about 18:40 heading home from work on 181, not to sure how true this is but I'm led to believe that the odd allocations were due to the fact that there were problems over the Bank Holiday charging the electrics up so allocation wise if it moved it went out in service on whatever route was possible within reason.

Not to sure what the ruling on Solos on 181/182 is though whether or not they are acceptable as other vehicles do get used.

Depends on boards and compliance but pretty sure the Solos shouldn’t be running in and out of the city centre.
With regards to rules etc, it there was charging issues at the depot then this is down to TFGM so it will probably be overlooked.

 

[317 forever]

There had been talk on here the other week about the E100EVs due for Stagecoach for use on Bury local routes.

I hope they are in service in the next month or so for a trip in the area.

 

[Class 466]

There had been talk on here the other week about the E100EVs due for Stagecoach for use on Bury local routes.

I hope they are in service in the next month or so for a trip in the area.

Until there’s depot electrification they’ll remain in storage. Likely end up at Middleton once that’s electrified to displace more solos to Queens Road.

 

[mayneway]

Until there’s depot electrification they’ll remain in storage. Likely end up at Middleton once that’s electrified to displace more solos to Queens Road.

Don’t think even Middleton is close to being electrified yet. They have to move out to a temp yard near Morrisons in Hollinwood while the final phases are completed for 6 weeks I was told but as yet they are not even close.

 

[toms]

Don’t think even Middleton is close to being electrified yet. They have to move out to a temp yard near Morrisons in Hollinwood while the final phases are completed for 6 weeks I was told but as yet they are not even close.

I’m guessing Queens Road is not near completion yet then. Although I could be wrong

 

[Class 466]

I’m guessing Queens Road is not near completion yet then. Although I could be wrong

I doubt it’s even started

 

[M60lad]

Regarding Middleton Depot moving I have heard PTE have got the land near Morrisons Hollinwood for a number of years so obviously there's no rush in them getting Middleton Electrified.

Not going in to it on here but I've also heard a rumour of a future fleet/service move round between Middleton, Oldham and Queens Road once Middleton is finally electrified but I'm just waiting to see as to when and if it happens.

Also weren't Bee Network supposed to be getting some single deck BZLs similar to Warringtons Own? What's happened to these and where are they being stored if indeed any of them have arrived?