PlusBus Tickets

[Starmill]

I feel like using an e-ticket and trying to scan it is a recipe for disaster on the majority of buses.

For most drivers a failed scan= invalid, and they are much less likely to accept it.

If you show them a paper ticket, after a bit of conversation which normally is along the lines of 'that's a rail ticket'; 'no its not, it's a plusbus', the vast majority will just let you on.

If you have an Intalink branded ticket it's usually the case that you can show it with the barcode folded away and the driver will recognise the brand and accept it, as per the conditions of the ticket.

If you scan it or show them it with the barcode visible they usually won't accept it without it being scanned. This will decline for operators other than the one on whose bus it was purchased, and the driver will then tell you it isn't valid.

Usually bus drivers fall into two categories: the first accepts whatever is shown to them, focusing far more on driving safely, keeping to time, and that passengers are going the right way, than about whether someone has underpaid. They may query where someone wants to go to or something like an unacivated mobile ticket, but they won't delay the bus to do so. The second automatically says no to something they don't recognise, and tries to charge fares in any circumstances they think they can. They will never, ever admit to having been wrong, and ironically they're usually more likely to be wrong in the first place as a result of this negative attitude.

There's a small contingent of drivers who fall in between and actually know what all of the tickets are that are valid on their service, or in the unlikely event of a surprise they will pass tickets they don't recognise and check later. There's at least a few drivers in this category who could be reading this very thread.

 

[Edvid]

Speaking of Intalink, I recently encountered a Central Connect driver on the 25 who kept trying to make me validate an Explorer* ticket with a Ticketer scanner that wasn't working; seems they were unfamiliar with Intalink (!)

(They were polite about it and ultimately agreed it was valid.)

I thought that Ticketer had already released a software update? The piecemeal fashion to this is probably one of the biggest issues here.

They did, with Blackpool Transport announcing that they'd updated theirs (along with the tram conductor's machines) before they even launched.

Interesting. The exact words in the Grant Palmer reply were "at the moment the ticket cannot be scanned with our ticket machines as we are waiting on our provider". Make of that what you will.

[* Connect (All Zones), nowadays]

 

[Bungle965]

Another unsuccessful attempt, this time with Diamond Bus in the West Midlands.
Usual story, barcode denied by the Ticketer machine.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I don't think the eTVD (if there actually is one) is at fault here

As far as I know there isn't one - any problems are all down to the barcode itself (creation or reading)

 

[MrJeeves]

As far as I know there isn't one - any problems are all down to the barcode itself (creation or reading)

There is one, if the scanner reads the barcode properly!

Scans are, allegedly, reported back by Ticketer (or I thought I read that somewhere).

It seems rather pointless to do all the work to allow scanning but then not do any reporting back of this data anywhere.

 

[tomoufc]

Earlier today I purchased a Luton PlusBus eTicket through the LNER app* for use on various routes shared between five operators. Barcode scanners rejected the ticket every single time, which suggests the associated eTVD** is still not ready.

Unless noted otherwise I scanned the PDF barcode.

Arriva Midlands (Beds & Bucks) - 12, 24, 321 (twice), A (twice)
Accepted by all drivers, with reactions ranging from immediate acceptance to not knowing what the ticket was and needing a detailed explanation, plus (on the first 321) being assured my destination was within bounds. Driver on the second A briefly spoke about Ticketer machines not doing what they should with regard to ePlusBus.

I scanned the Google Wallet barcode on the second 321 to see if that would make any difference.

Arriva South (Herts & Essex) - 100
Had a pleasant conservation with the driver. They initially rejected my ticket before realising it was Luton +Bus and that I'd alight at Butterfield. Also had a chuckle over their going on holiday for two weeks right when ePlusBus was rolled out nationwide (they hadn't seen that format before).

Centrebus (South) - B
Driver accepted it after a brief inspection.

Grant Palmer - CX (twice), Hi
First CX driver upon inspecting the ticket - "It's Arriva!" / Their reply after a polite reminder that PlusBus is multi-operator - "IT'S ARRIVA! END OF!" Service was running late and another CX bus was close by, so I decided not to waste time on someone seemingly determined to be a rude berk.
Attitude of the second CX driver was considerably less lacking but they also refused to accept the ticket, even after I highlighted Grant Palmer on the Luton PlusBus webpage.
Didn't bother scanning my ticket on the Hi and just showed it to the driver, who accepted it. Remarked they were familiar with the magstripe version but hadn't seen the barcode version before and conversed with a colleague onboard who mentioned their scanners weren't set up to accept them yet. These two clearly knew their stuff and were enjoyable to converse with.

Stagecoach East - MK1 (twice)
First driver accepted it after a fairly brief inspection.

Showed the second driver the Google Wallet barcode after its scan and they had no idea what it was. They even thought it was a Railcard at one point (my ticket had a Network discount) and I opened my actual Railcard to show them the difference. Took me a minute or so in all to convince them of its validity within Luton, including the fact that a) I used it on the MK1 earlier that day, and b) scanner rejection doesn't always mean the ticket is invalid.***

[* To add PlusBus you have to select mix and match tickets after you've chosen the scheduled train(s)]
[** Electrical and Ticket Validation Data Base, apparently (see footnote on page 6)]
[*** In my experience of Stagecoach East, Vix ticket machines paired with HID scanners do not recognise a valid barcode ticket that isn't generated by the group's app - be it ePlusBus, Intalink Connect (All Zones) or Luton HipHop. They don't print 2D barcodes on tickets either]

What do you do when refused? Buy a new ticket and claim it back from the bus company, or just buy a new one and let it be?

 

[RT4038]

What do you do when refused? Buy a new ticket and claim it back from the bus company, or just buy a new one and let it be?

I would suggest the first - ball ache that it is, as the second is never going to get the problem addressed!

 

[tomoufc]

I would suggest the first - ball ache that it is, as the second is never going to get the problem addressed!

Probably right, although I don't like reporting drivers. Companies often target individuals, rather than bother with proper training (although there's no excuse to be rude to passengers).

 

[redreni]

There is one, if the scanner reads the barcode properly!

Scans are, allegedly, reported back by Ticketer (or I thought I read that somewhere).

It seems rather pointless to do all the work to allow scanning but then not do any reporting back of this data anywhere.

Aren't there a few reasons to do this?

Depending how fiddly the tickets are to scan, they should speed up boarding (compared with the driver doing a thorough manual check of the ticket, at any rate), and should eliminate the kind of error where (for instance) a driver may not notice if a ticket is out-of-date or post-dated or otherwise invalid.

When it comes to reporting back data, many use cases for the data are of course perfectly legitimate and potentially useful, Unfortunately, however, I still find myself in a position where I generally prefer, where I still can, to choose tickets where data relating to my use of the ticket doesn't flow as easily to the transport company, because I keep coming across credible accounts (and have experienced a couple of instances myself) of this kind of data being used entirely inappropriately by people who evidently don't understand what it means and what inferences they can and can't reasonably make based on it. See, for example, this thread on a refusal of a delay repay claim that would have been paid if I had been using a paper ticket.

If the industry were able to demonstrate that the data is being used effectively in a way that improves public transport planning and delivery, or makes fare evasion or delay repay fraud more difficult without impacting on people who aren't doing anything wrong, then I would gladly choose modern tickets over antiquated ones.

 

[kkong]

I used a PlusBus e-ticket twice on First Aberdeen yesterday.

I showed it to the drivers and just received a nod with (at most) a cursory inspection. There was no request to scan it.

There's so many agency drivers with First Aberdeen these days, I suspect many aren't interested in whatever type of ticket / pass is shown to them and just want to drive the bus.

 

[Bungle965]

I used a PlusBus e-ticket twice on First Aberdeen yesterday.

I showed it to the drivers and just received a nod with (at most) a cursory inspection. There was no request to scan it.

There's so many agency drivers with First Aberdeen these days, I suspect many aren't interested in whatever type of ticket / pass is shown to them and just want to drive the bus.

I'd be interested to hear what the result was if you attempted to scan

 

[kkong]

I'd be interested to hear what the result was if you attempted to scan

Given the local PlusBus admin (if they still exist) can't even define the area map correctly, I have low confidence that the Ticketer machines will have been updated to recognise PlusBus e-tickets.

For a few weeks last month, First Aberdeen's own complimentary day m-tickets for Aberdeen FC home matches were being rejected by the machines.

 

[far]

Got a York paper PlusBus one today and been told to scan it by a First driver. Much to my amazement, it worked on that and the Transdev Coastliner bus too.

 

[kkong]

Got a York paper PlusBus one today and been told to scan it by a First driver. Much to my amazement, it worked on that and the Transdev Coastliner bus too.

I assume by "paper" you mean an Aztec code printed on a piece of paper?

I'd be surprised if any buses could read the magnetic stripe on orange paper tickets.

 

[miklcct]

I travelled with an e-PlusBus ticket a few days ago on a Stagecoach South service, and it didn't work the reader. I then showed the barcode to the driver, and he started to question me about my ticket, first saying it was not valid, asking if it is a screenshot (it was in my Apple Wallet).

 

[Adam Williams]

I travelled with an e-PlusBus ticket a few days ago on a Stagecoach South service, and it didn't work the reader. I then showed the barcode to the driver and he started to question me about my ticket, first saying it was not valid, asking if it is a screenshot (it was in my Apple Wallet).

I don't think Stagecoach use the Ticketer ETM (Electronic Ticket Machines), and are instead supplied by Vix.

The document I have basically says scanning has no hope of working with non-Ticketer ETMs and "tickets should be checked visually by the driver and a manually recorded on the ticket machine as you would with a paper PlusBus ticket".

I find this particularly ironic given Vix will have implemented the issuing side of PlusBus E-Tickets for LNER (yeah, yeah I know - big multinational company and all that); but yes, "working" as designed.

 

[far]

I assume by "paper" you mean an Aztec code printed on a piece of paper?

I'd be surprised if any buses could read the magnetic stripe on orange paper tickets.

Yes the loo roll not CCST!

 

[ainsworth74]

Earlier today I purchased a Luton PlusBus eTicket through the LNER app* for use on various routes shared between five operators. Barcode scanners rejected the ticket every single time, which suggests the associated eTVD** is still not ready.

Unless noted otherwise I scanned the PDF barcode.

Arriva Midlands (Beds & Bucks) - 12, 24, 321 (twice), A (twice)
Accepted by all drivers, with reactions ranging from immediate acceptance to not knowing what the ticket was and needing a detailed explanation, plus (on the first 321) being assured my destination was within bounds. Driver on the second A briefly spoke about Ticketer machines not doing what they should with regard to ePlusBus.

I scanned the Google Wallet barcode on the second 321 to see if that would make any difference.

Arriva South (Herts & Essex) - 100
Had a pleasant conservation with the driver. They initially rejected my ticket before realising it was Luton +Bus and that I'd alight at Butterfield. Also had a chuckle over their going on holiday for two weeks right when ePlusBus was rolled out nationwide (they hadn't seen that format before).

Centrebus (South) - B
Driver accepted it after a brief inspection.

Grant Palmer - CX (twice), Hi
First CX driver upon inspecting the ticket - "It's Arriva!" / Their reply after a polite reminder that PlusBus is multi-operator - "IT'S ARRIVA! END OF!" Service was running late and another CX bus was close by, so I decided not to waste time on someone seemingly determined to be a rude berk.
Attitude of the second CX driver was considerably less lacking but they also refused to accept the ticket, even after I highlighted Grant Palmer on the Luton PlusBus webpage.
Didn't bother scanning my ticket on the Hi and just showed it to the driver, who accepted it. Remarked they were familiar with the magstripe version but hadn't seen the barcode version before and conversed with a colleague onboard who mentioned their scanners weren't set up to accept them yet. These two clearly knew their stuff and were enjoyable to converse with.

Stagecoach East - MK1 (twice)
First driver accepted it after a fairly brief inspection.

Showed the second driver the Google Wallet barcode after its scan and they had no idea what it was. They even thought it was a Railcard at one point (my ticket had a Network discount) and I opened my actual Railcard to show them the difference. Took me a minute or so in all to convince them of its validity within Luton, including the fact that a) I used it on the MK1 earlier that day, and b) scanner rejection doesn't always mean the ticket is invalid.***

[* To add PlusBus you have to select mix and match tickets after you've chosen the scheduled train(s)]
[** Electrical and Ticket Validation Data Base, apparently (see footnote on page 6)]
[*** In my experience of Stagecoach East, Vix ticket machines paired with HID scanners do not recognise a valid barcode ticket that isn't generated by the group's app - be it ePlusBus, Intalink Connect (All Zones) or Luton HipHop. They don't print 2D barcodes on tickets either]

As Traveline are involved in managing this roll out you (and others who are having negative experiences) might want to consider emailing them directly with issues ([email protected]). I imagine they'll be interested in making sure problems are run to ground so high might actually get a decent response!

 

[James H]

Does anyone know if scanning an Aztec code on a Ticketer machine for a railcard-discounted PlusBus enforces the railcard time restrictions?

 

[tram21]

Unfortunately a fail in Coventry.

Showed a plusbus e-ticket, and driver told me to scan it. Failed on machine, so driver refused to accept it despite it being valid and made me buy a new ticket, as he said he was told to make people do if the machines don't accept it. I assume it's because it was a railcard discounted one, as he said 'valid ones scan correctly'- well this one was valid

Now to go through the long process to refund my bus ticket and get National Express to fix the issue!

 

[Bungle965]

Unfortunately a fail in Coventry.

Showed a plusbus e-ticket, and driver told me to scan it. Failed on machine, so driver refused to accept it despite it being valid and made me buy a new ticket, as he said he was told to make people do if the machines don't accept it. I assume it's because it was a railcard discounted one, as he said 'valid ones scan correctly'- well this one was valid

Now to go through the long process to refund my bus ticket and get National Express to fix the issue!

As Traveline are involved in managing this roll out you (and others who are having negative experiences) might want to consider emailing them directly with issues ([email protected]). I imagine they'll be interested in making sure problems are run to ground so high might actually get a decent response!

Have you contacted Traveline also?

 

[Buzby]

One of the main reasons why I don’t buy a PlusBus add-on, primarily because I have to be in the right frame of mind to counter the arguments that it’s not valid. Unless resolved this useful ticket will wither and die.

 

[tram21]

Have you contacted Traveline also?

I will do. Thanks for reminding me to do so!

 

[Bungle965]

One of the main reasons why I don’t buy a PlusBus add-on, primarily because I have to be in the right frame of mind to counter the arguments that it’s not valid. Unless resolved this useful ticket will wither and die.

The whole point I imagine of them being E-Tickets was this could combat this in a lot of the cases!
Sadly reality hasn’t resulted in this.

 

[tram21]

Had two more (attempted) uses in the West Midlands on National Express this afternoon, both, unsurprisingly, failed at the machine, but thankfully both drivers let me on after a bit of consideration.

Hopefully we can get this fixed after I write to traveline/ get a refund from National Express!

 

[Buzby]

The whole point I imagine of them being E-Tickets

None of the locations I’ve been to used E-tickets, just the usual rail ticket with PlusBus on them (I recently was challenged on Manchester’s Bee network. Is the change across the PB network or area specific?

 

[Bungle965]

None of the locations I’ve been to used E-tickets, just the usual rail ticket with PlusBus on them (I recently was challenged on Manchester’s Bee network. Is the change across the PB network or area specific?

You won’t get it as an E-Ticket unless purchasing it online, even then only a few have bothered to do the development for them.

 

[Edvid]

Just came back from another ePlusBus "tour" today, funnily enough.

Got Luton Airport +Bus* from the forum site this time (same zone as Luton +Bus); all scans rejected across Arriva (Midlands / South) services and the Grant Palmer CX again. Didn't bother scanning on the Stagecoach East MK1 having read post #166.

First CX driver stuck to his "It's Arriva" guns (not as loudly this time) in spite of my showing him the email from GP. That was the only time I was unable to travel.

Second CX driver (just a minute behind) was initially convinced it wasn't valid, again. After two minutes of cordial back and forth, including showing him the same email to no effect, I read the email out loud and he finally asked to check it in closer detail then took a picture for future reference. At the end of the journey we shared a good conversation and I learned he was only familiar with the paper PlusBus tickets; he hadn't seen the barcode version (mine aside - to nobody's surprise, sadly).

As previously suggested to me, I'll send an email to Traveline. To me it feels - rightly or wrongly - like the majority of those responsible for enabling PlusBus barcode validations at local level (be it the local scheme managers, the OpCos or another party) are dragging their heels.

[* Based on Luton Airport Parkway, not the airport itself]

 

[Man of Kent]

Unfortunately a fail in Coventry.

Showed a plusbus e-ticket, and driver told me to scan it. Failed on machine, so driver refused to accept it despite it being valid and made me buy a new ticket, as he said he was told to make people do if the machines don't accept it. I assume it's because it was a railcard discounted one, as he said 'valid ones scan correctly'- well this one was valid

Now to go through the long process to refund my bus ticket and get National Express to fix the issue!

National Express use INIT ticket machines, which may or may not be programmed to read these tickets, as the codes have been developed for reading by Ticketer machines. Nottingham City Transport is the only other major operator with the same type of ticket machine.

 

[Bungle965]

National Express use INIT ticket machines, which may or may not be programmed to read these tickets, as the codes have been developed for reading by Ticketer machines. Nottingham City Transport is the only other major operator with the same type of ticket machine.

They can’t even read nNetwork tickets issued by Ticketer machines so it’s not a surprise that they can’t accept PlusBus.
There’s no reason that INIT if they or the operator wanted to that it could be developed to accept it however they probably don’t see it as worthwhile.