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Driving well below the speed limit
- Thread starter Bald Rick
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RailUK Forums
That's by far the safest way to deal with such a situation, - why get stressed, it doesn't change anything outside your head?
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Shunts at the exits for Cosham, Eastern Road, M275 split and (eastwards) Emsworth, are a daily occurrence due to an inept road sense by far too many locals...
In a slight variation to the theme, yesterday on the M1 southbound near Northampton on the 4 lane All Lane Running section, I followed a car that stayed in Lane 2 for about 10 miles, doing 69mph, with nothing in lane 1 throughout. A number of cars in front of me overtook it at 70mph, and pulled back into Lane 2. I went past at 71mph, and made a point of switching straight to lane 1 with a very obvious indicator throughout, gently shaking my head in disappointment at the poor lane discipline. The car then dutifully switched to Lane 1 immediately.
The car was a police car.
(South Yorks force, oddly).
The car was a police car.
(South Yorks force, oddly).
bramling
Veteran Member
Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence…
I’ve just had my does of it driving back from Henley-on-Thames via the M40 and M25. 2200 at night, lane 1 virtually empty, lane 2 almost empty, and two lines of traffic pratting around in lanes 3 and 4, not to mention brake lights flashing on and off like a Christmas tree.
Why?…
Better view from lane 2?
Was it marked, so they might like being visible?
Amuses me how obvious some of the unmarked cars are - Focus RS, and rude Audis and BMWs don’t normally sit at 65 in lane 1…..
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I find that on 4-lane motorways you typically have it behaving as two separate two-lane roads, with lanes 1 and 2 being for lorries and slow cars, and lanes 3 and 4 being for faster cars. Very much not ideal. It doesn't seem to matter if there's a hard shoulder or not.
So-called “Smart” M-way, by any chance (aka death trap)?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Amplify what you describe by considering the M25 from the M4 towards the M3 (particularly anticlockwise). There are Five or Six lanes for people to get lost in !.
Would have made more sense if it had been done like the M20 past Maidstone. Two carriageways in each direction with the outer carriage way serving the intermediate junctions. You could then confine the carnage from a crash to half of one direction. Oh wait - what about the rubber neck-ers !.
Or may favourite old idea.
One 3 lane motorway from the M40 going round to South London M25.
One 3 lane motorway from the M3 going round to North London M25.
Have them crossing each other some where near Heath row - West of it ?.
But ideally not near the M4.
Eggs in two different baskets with less traffic in the ordinary roads near the junctions.
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I have just seen this thread so apologies for the very late post. My wife passed her driving test in her home country after eight hours of lessons. When she came to the UK she could legally drive for the first 12 months using that licence but thankfully didn't. It's disturbing which foreign visitors and residents are allowed to drive in the UK. The EU and most of the rest of Europe have similar rules and therefore she can drive when we go on holiday. She tried once. There is absolutely no chance I will be a passenger in a car driven by her until she learns in the UK and passes the UK test. It was a hair raising experience in the litteral sense. I am not sure what was worse, when she drove at half the speed limit and cars were over taking on mass or when she drove at the speed limit but struggled to stay in lane. I love her to bits but I have never been so glad to finish a half hour drive.
On the M1 southbound, from about Luton onwards there is a section where it becomes 5 lanes.
Every time I drive that way I seem to end up in the 5th lane as I'm trying to overtake, but it slows to 60mph and I notice that lanes 1-3 are empty. It takes a while to move back to the left because the 4th lane suddenly starts going faster with no gaps, but once you move over you can just pass all the slow cars in what are meant to be the overtaking lanes. I don't understand why people in the 4th lane never even move to the 3rd.
Then when you get 3-4 miles before the M25 junction the 1st lane is often slowed to a standstill and the 2nd lane is going at 30-40mph. It isn't ideal but even if I want to exit I have learned to just stay in the 3rd lane (overtaking everyone in lane 2, which is slow because lorries stopped in lane 1 get impatient and move back out). By the time I get to 1 mile before the junction, all 4 lanes are practically free flowing again and I've stayed at 70mph up right up to the point where you need to slow down as you turn onto the M25
Egg Centric
Established Member
Having been through a similar experience (my wife didn't have a foreign driving licence, she just learned to driver after I'd met her and very quickly becoming not me teaching, I decided to pay for lessons instead) I would wait a couple of years after she has passed her test too! The UK driving test while stricter than most countries is still a very low standard compared to an experienced driver and it's not much less terrifying the day after she passes her test.
This is a learner thing in general though not necessarily partners. I've had petrifying experiences trying to teach a few people of various friend/family/relationship status and now just won't (I'd consider it in a dual control vehicle belonging to someone else as realistically most of the worry is from either being t boned or one's own lovely car being damanged; this avoids that)
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Brent Goose
Member
Where the M26 merges with the M25 going Westbound it seemingly takes forever for the slower traffic on the M25 to move from what is now lane 3 to one further left
Do we know why there are so many poor drivers? My 2p worth
People who havent passed a UK test
People who started driving when cars had less power and poor brakes and havent evolved their driving.
People with poor hand -eye coordination, and people who cant get hand and feet to work together.
People who havent learned to listen to their car so are in the wrong gear.
People in a temperature controlled environment with surround sound. So totally separated from the world outside
People who are ignorant of highway code rule 169, and probably think 'I am in front and dont care about the queue behind.'
People who havent passed a UK test
People who started driving when cars had less power and poor brakes and havent evolved their driving.
People with poor hand -eye coordination, and people who cant get hand and feet to work together.
People who havent learned to listen to their car so are in the wrong gear.
People in a temperature controlled environment with surround sound. So totally separated from the world outside
People who are ignorant of highway code rule 169, and probably think 'I am in front and dont care about the queue behind.'
Nym
Established Member
Where's the 5th lane?
From J10 at Luton (A1081) southbound is D4M with hard shoulder, not D5M, there is a short Northbound section from the old A5 (A5183) intended as a slow joining crawler lane due to the tight corner on J9, but that isn't provided southbound from J9.
From J8 at Hemmel to J7 (former M10) to St Albans it's got a parallel route, but that isn't part of the M1, it's the A414, unless you mean the very short section through the trumpet from the J8 exit SB to the merge with the A414?
Or do you mean the extremely short length of 5 lanes when you start approaching the last 800 or so yards on the approach to J6A for the M25?
None of them would constitute a "5 lane" section of the M1.
Nor would where the new A5 north of Dunstable runs a section of the M1 where it's been converted from HSR "Smart" to ALR "Smart", that's 4 plus slip roads, and hardly from Luton "onwards" given it's North of Luton...
Learners are permitted on motorways under conditions that include an ADI instructor etc, and have been for some time.
The words of someone who's never owned a high performance car and had to drive it a long distance?
Fiesta ST for example is something that loves to cruise at 63mph and gets nearly double the fuel economy when you do, so yes, in fact, plenty of drivers of higher performance cars will sit on the motorway cruising at coach speed with good lane discipline, not everyone who has a higher performance car feels the need to consistently use all of that performance on a motorway where it is no less boring than saving the fuel for use later.
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Falcon1200
Established Member
Yes indeed. It still surprises me now that, having passed my test and never having driven alone, or on a motorway, I was suddenly deemed fit and safe to do both! Not sure how any change to the system could be arranged, or enforced, however.
Learners are allowed on motorways. It changed in the last few years. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/learner-drivers-will-be-allowed-on-motorways-from-2018
Indeed. I belong to the category of people who have never passed a UK test - having learnt and taken the test in Germany. As I’m sure many know, a minimum number of hours with an approved instructor is required and the instructor books your test. Those minimum hours have to include: urban and rural driving, night driving as well as Motorways. About the only thing I don’t think was included was a hill start - they are in short supply on the North German plain.
Not that that stops aggressive M-Way driving…
JGurney
Member
One more is regarding driving as a normal activity not a specialised skill. People who think 'Everyone drives, nothing special about it' rather than thinking 'Driving is a specialist skill, if I opt to practice it I have a responsibility to ensure I do it properly'.
Well, i suppose it depends how you learn. In only had six hours of lessons, and passed first time out (in this country) a few weeks after my 17th birthday. However I had been learning to drive for about 4 years before that point, having read the highway code countless times, read the Institute of Advanced Motorists driving manual, been a road user for several years through lots of cycling, and been driving on private land for a few years.
But some people just are not suited to driving - people who have had scores of lessons and/or failed several times, and/or think buying a Nissan is acceptable.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
When I got my second Vauxhall Carlton and it was a 2 litre automatic I discovered fuel economy was best at 65 (iirc) mph. I lower speed and the torque converter had not locked up. This ended up making me drive at 65 rather than the bit (erm) faster I used to drive in the manual version.
I did find that the lower speed did make it more likely I had to think more about lane discipline. More often having to watch out for getting caught behind slightly slower lorries. My speed differential with the 2nd lane users was a bit more noticeable. I could cope easily as I (think I) anticipate quite well. But it occurs to me that a less able driver might find driving at 60-65mph harder than wandering over 70 mph.
Lets face it many people treat driving as a basic human right and are also quite blase about rules and ability. I have encountered people who would never consider if they should avoid drinking before driving. Some people do not want to consider if there is a problem or a risk. Ignorance in their eyes seems to be bliss.
Indeed. I passed asap. I had learnt road sense from the cycling proficiency scheme. As a passenger I always watched the drivers actions and the road. My mother taught me to drive * and then I had a few professional lessons to learn how to pass the test.
*= I did notice that mirror, signal and manoeuvre was not a strong point !.
In terms of not suited to driving :-
There are those who really do not have the coordination skills - My sister cannot stay in lane on a roundabout and I have never succeeded in explaining it. There are those with no sense of caution - I know people who drive too hard, relying on everyone elses reactions.
There are those who are just bad tempered - for them someone blowing their horn is a sign of aggression, they do not like it BUT are the first to use the horn as an angry button themselves !.
For me the slow plodders are a nuisance but not a liability.
We do perhaps have to respect people who choose to drive withing their ability.
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To clarify, those eight hours were her only eight behind the wheel of a car in her life. The test in her home country is ludicrously easy and shouldn't confer driving rights in UK for first 12 months of residency. It's by no means the only country with very lax driving tests or blatant corruption or both. If we don't accept a licence as equal (e.g. EU licences) then the time period of acceptance should be zero or just for tourists e.g. 30 days.
gabrielhj07
Established Member
GusB
Established Member
Oi!
Some Nissans are fine. I had lots of fun with my K11 Micra, especially at traffic lights; the gearing in 1st was low enough that I could be off the lights quicker than anyone else... up to about 10 mph!
If you'd specifically said "Nissan Juke" I'd probably have agreed with you.
Sun Chariot
Established Member
20 years ago, I drove a Nissan GT-R around Bruntingthorpe circuit. The car had so much technical cleverness and grip, that it was - dare I say this - a bit "sterile" around the circuit, even when pushing it hard.Some Nissans are fine. I had lots of fun with my K11 Micra, especially at traffic lights; the gearing in 1st was low enough that I could be off the lights quicker than anyone else... up to about 10 mph!
If you'd specifically said "Nissan Juke" I'd probably have agreed with yoyou.
I’ve driven a Fiesta ST to Austria, and back via the Millau Viaduct, and frequently go up north in it, so no!
I don’t understand why one would buy a performance car, with all the comfort and noise drawbacks, if one is going to drive at 63 and worry about fuel economy. It’s really really boring at less than 70, whereas going faster requires more attention and keeps me alert. That and my ongoing ‘survey’ of who the lanehoggers are!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Surely the real benefit of a performance road car is fast acceleration and good performance when cornering on country lanes etc? If the car isn't giving you anything when driven legally (but enthusiastically) there's really no point owning it unless you do a lot of track days; increasingly driving above the speed limit isn't possible due to far more prevalent cameras, and quite rightly so.
Fair point (though it’s still handy for joining the motorway and lane changes), but seems odd to me to go fast but happy to go slow on the motorway.
As for your last point - only where the speed limits make sense….