Trivia - Furthest away you can see a train?

[miami]

Spacewise: From GEO you would need a lens about 25 metres wide to resolve a train (that gives you a 1m resolution). You'd have to deal with atmospheric turbulence too.

WorldView satellites have 1m mirrors and can resolve to about 30cm from their height of around 600km, which is enough for trains, with example pictures showing for example these trains in South Africa:

https://maxarv2-cms-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/image/image_value/125/02_nelson+mandela+bridge+and+braamfontein+railyard_johannesburg+south+africa_24july2024_wvl.jpg

 

[stuu]

I would imagine that would only work for a plane that's still climbing after take off or descending to land. I can't imagine that it would be possible to see an individual train from an airliner's typical cruising altitude of 10-12 km, though you might be able to make out larger railway features.

You definitely can, my most recent flight was home from Venice and St Moritz was clearly visible including the station and trains. It's "only" 6 or 7 miles, if you are up a big hill you can easily see things the size of a train at that distance

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You definitely can, my most recent flight was home from Venice and St Moritz was clearly visible including the station and trains. It's "only" 6 or 7 miles, if you are up a big hill you can easily see things the size of a train at that distance

OK fair enough. Have to say I'm a little surprised that you can. My thinking was that, although its 'only' 6 or 7 miles vertically down, in practice anything you see is going to be further away because you can't look vertically down from the passenger window of a plane! Add to that that the toughened airline windows must degrade your vision through them a bit - and the refraction etc. is likely to especially degrade vision the closer you get to looking vertically down - because of the higher angle of incidence of the light on the window. Plus I don't recall ever being able to make out a train from cruising altitude But if you say you've seen one, then I'll accept it's possible.

 

[miami]

At 45degrees and 7 miles up, a train would be about 10 miles away.

A 3m wide 23m long carriage at 10 miles would appear about the same size as a "normal vision" character on a standard eye-test charge (5 arcmin long), maybe with finer lines that a typical stroke on that chart.

 

[Skiddaw]

I’ve not tested it with good enough binoculars, so it’s a guess. But you can see Sellafield very clearly on a crisp day so it figures the train in front of it around Braystones would be visible.

Snaefell is 2,037ft above sea level.

Yes, when the visibility is good you can see Snaefell very well from the Lakes fells on that side of Cumbria (Ennerdale, Loweswater, Wasdale) and when things are really clear you can just make out the Mourne Mountains (Ireland) too. I don't think I've ever managed to see any Irish trains but I'm willing to try with the bins next time I'm up a fell that way in good weather!

 

[D6130]

Yes, when the visibility is good you can see Snaefell very well from the Lakes fells on that side of Cumbria (Ennerdale, Loweswater, Wasdale) and when things are really clear you can just make out the Mourne Mountains (Ireland) too. I don't think I've ever managed to see any Irish trains but I'm willing to try with the bins next time I'm up a fell that way in good weather!

Don't think you'll be able to see any Irish trains from that latitude. You're too far South to see Larne Town - Larne Harbour or Bangor and too far North to see Drogheda - Dublin or Dublin - Wicklow.

 

[Skiddaw]

Don't think you'll be able to see any Irish trains from that latitude. You're too far South to see Larne Town - Larne Harbour or Bangor and too far North to see Drogheda - Dublin or Dublin - Wicklow.

Yes, I was joking really. Shame. Would be good to see the Larne Town- Harbour or Belfast-Bangor lines (know them both well).

However, on the subject of seeing trains from summits, here's a recent view of a train passing over the Ribblehead Viaduct from the top of Whernside.

 

[D6130]

Yes, I was joking really. Shame. Would be good to see the Larne Town- Harbour or Belfast-Bangor lines (know them both well).

However, on the subject of seeing trains from summits, here's a recent view of a train passing over the Ribblehead Viaduct from the top of Whernside.

Very nice!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Yes, I was joking really. Shame. Would be good to see the Larne Town- Harbour or Belfast-Bangor lines (know them both well).

However, on the subject of seeing trains from summits, here's a recent view of a train passing over the Ribblehead Viaduct from the top of Whernside.

Last time I was in that position I watched a green Class 40 hauling a railtour northbound over the viaduct. Earlier on we’d seen LMS Princess Royal 6201 passing Blea Moor on a different northbound railtour. Was quite an eventful day

 

[181]

This probably doesn't break any records, but I've seen the smoke of the Jacobite near Arisaig from the summit of Rois-Bheinn (about 8 miles), and trains on the WCML near Shap from Kidsty Pike above Haweswater (about 7.5 miles). The latter was probably with binoculars (or a monocular), but I may have noticed something moving without them first.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As a child growing-up in Beaumaris in the 1950s I could just make out the steam from trains on the opposite shore of the Menai Straits, but not the trains themselves.

From how far away is Snowdon (and its railway) visible?

 

[Corn]

On a clear day, from the summit of Snaefell, the Snowdon Mountain Railway at the summit could be seen, 84 miles away. Bonus point for being able to see a train while being sat on a another train (with a big set of binoculars!) at that distance!

 

[Skiddaw]

This probably doesn't break any records, but I've seen the smoke of the Jacobite near Arisaig from the summit of Rois-Bheinn (about 8 miles), and trains on the WCML near Shap from Kidsty Pike above Haweswater (about 7.5 miles). The latter was probably with binoculars (or a monocular), but I may have noticed something moving without them first.

Kidsty Pike is a really good vantage point for seeing WCML trains. I get a bit grumpy if we're there and don't see one. As an extra bonus you can see Shap Chippy too.

On a clear day, from the summit of Snaefell, the Snowdon Mountain Railway at the summit could be seen, 84 miles away. Bonus point for being able to see a train while being sat on a another train (with a big set of binoculars!) at that distance!

Oh wow.... that's really cool....

 

[pokemonsuper9]

On a clear day, from the summit of Snaefell, the Snowdon Mountain Railway at the summit could be seen, 84 miles away. Bonus point for being able to see a train while being sat on a another train (with a big set of binoculars!) at that distance!

Wow, I guess the only way to beat that while still on the ground will probably be from another elevated location looking at one of those two.

 

[miami]

Wow, I guess the only way to beat that while still on the ground will probably be from another elevated location looking at one of those two.

Theoretically you can see the summit of Snowden from Merrick, which is 230km (based on being able to see it from Snowden in this picture)

Views from the Summit: Snowdonia-Scotland

However having a clear enough atmosphere to be able to pick out something as small as a train would be a challenge. 230km is far more atmosphere than you'd get looking at Snowden from orbit. I guess with enough adaptive optics or in the right wavelengths you might be able to, at what point does it still meet the "can see it" test.

* Technically if you're on the moon that would be "the ground". You'd need a telescope that's around 200 metres wide (in theory maybe 100m) to pick out a train though.

 

[telstarbox]

You beat me to it and that definitely puts a new angle on it. Flying into Stansted last night I saw a train trundling along the London-Cambridge line. From how small it was, it must've been a couple of miles away. Not a big enough distance to compete with some of the suggestions here, but it is a potential alternative way to see a train from far away.

I would imagine that would only work for a plane that's still climbing after take off or descending to land. I can't imagine that it would be possible to see an individual train from an airliner's typical cruising altitude of 10-12 km, though you might be able to make out larger railway features.



As demonstrated by the existence of Google maps

If this helps - view of Heathrow from a plane approaching Luton, so not sure of the altitude. You can pick out planes so trains should be visible if there were any lines in the shot.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If this helps - view of Heathrow from a plane approaching Luton, so not sure of the altitude. You can pick out planes so trains should be visible if there were any lines in the shot.

Based on matching it against google maps, Airport Junction - Langley is in the top right of the shot (annotated attached).
I can also make out where the Piccadilly line is at Hounslow West, and I can see Feltham.

While I can't directly see any trains in the photo, I can completely imagine that they could be seen by eye or with a stronger zoom more focussed on the line.

 

[melon68]

Good post, I saw a freight train heading south on the ECML from about 5000ft yesterday, it was near Morpeth on the ECML

Probably cheating but I’ve seen quite a few trains out of aircraft windows before. Obviously wouldn’t know the exact distance away they were but they haven’t always been directly underneath so could easily have been a few miles away.

 

[Bald Rick]

If this helps - view of Heathrow from a plane approaching Luton, so not sure of the altitude. You can pick out planes so trains should be visible if there were any lines in the shot.

Youd have been at about 11,000ft (2 miles up) and roughly over Richmond (6 miles from the CTA on the ground), so about 6.4 miles as the airbus flies.

 

[brad465]

It surprised me once from the Sevenoaks line south of Polhill tunnel to see the lights of a train on the Maidstone East line near Otford, winter only I think with leaves off the trees.

A passenger on a train leaving Otford towards Swanley can see trains on the SEML between that tunnel and Dunton Green, having personally seen it myself several times. I'm sure I've seen the reverse at least once as well. The distance is roughly 1.5 miles.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

On the topic of seeing trains from aeroplanes, this was a photo I took on the approach to Stansted a few days ago, with an actual train visible (although not the track, due to being at night). I'm not sure exactly where it was, but since this was quite close to Stansted, the plane couldn't have been very high up, so I'm guessing the train was no more than a mile or two away.

 

[Taunton]

Flying Scotland to London, I would guess when starting to descend where they are often at around 20,000 feet, I have noticed more than once around Milton Keynes Class 390s running on the WCML, particularly prominent in Virgin livery days with red roofs.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

While I can't directly see any trains in the photo, I can completely imagine that they could be seen by eye or with a stronger zoom more focussed on the line.

Zooming in, I think I can see something that might be a train?

If this helps - view of Heathrow from a plane approaching Luton, so not sure of the altitude. You can pick out planes so trains should be visible if there were any lines in the shot.

You might not have noticed, but you've got the Concorde that is still present at Heathrow, G-BOAB, in that image...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's certainly places in the Pennine where you can see a LONG way down valleys to railways. I can't remember where but I can firmly remember walking someone and a coal train in the far distance being tiny, barely perceptible.

Then again another possibility is Emley Moor Mast. Not normally accessible to the public but the viewing area up it is over 1000ft from the ground, so anywhere you can see it from should be visible from it, so....

I'd imagine that you could probably see trains passing Healey Mills, and/or on the approaches to Dewsbury, if you were able to gain access to the mast.
I wonder if you'd be able to see trains on the West Somerset Railway from South Wales, or if you could see trains on the West Coast Main Line at Hest Bank from Humphrey Head in south Cumbria. With the latter in particular it's possible that the curvature of the earth would defeat you!

 

[Harpo]

The ‘Panoramas’ website is really useful. Its diagrams show what can be seen from UK & international summits and their viewing distances.

For example, it shows how Tywyn can be seen from Er Eifl 31 miles away on the Lleyn peninsula which includes Pwllheli. Maybe with a decent telescope the Cambrian coast line could be seen along the bay?

https://viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/WAL/CARN%20FADRYN.png

 

[telstarbox]

Zooming in, I think I can see something that might be a train?

View attachment 180418




You might not have noticed, but you've got the Concorde that is still present at Heathrow, G-BOAB, in that image...

View attachment 180419

Good spot! I was in the window seat so just took a quick snap when I recognised LHR.

 

[Bald Rick]

On the topic of seeing trains from aeroplanes, this was a photo I took on the approach to Stansted a few days ago, with an actual train visible (although not the track, due to being at night). I'm not sure exactly where it was, but since this was quite close to Stansted, the plane couldn't have been very high up, so I'm guessing the train was no more than a mile or two away.

That’s the south end of Bishops Stortford; you‘d have been directly over Little Hallingbury at around 1500 feet, and well under a mile away from the train.

 

[EveningStar]

At the old Bromsgrove station it was possible to see trains start to descend the Lickey from two miles away ... platform kudos for the first person to recognise the class.

Good post, I saw a freight train heading south on the ECML from about 5000ft yesterday, it was near Morpeth on the ECML

Similarly, final approach from east into Newcastle a while ago clearly clocked a class 60 with tank train on the ECML. Think flights at that point on approach are at about 2000ft ... too high to get the number I suppose.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That’s the south end of Bishops Stortford; you‘d have been directly over Little Hallingbury at around 1500 feet, and well under a mile away from the train.

Thanks! I should've guessed with all the expertise on here, someone would have easily been able to tell where that was and deduce how high up the aeroplane was

 

[unlevel42]

The ‘Panoramas’ website is really useful. Its diagrams show what can be seen from UK & international summits and their viewing distances.

For example, it shows how Tywyn can be seen from Er Eifl 31 miles away on the Lleyn peninsula which includes Pwllheli. Maybe with a decent telescope the Cambrian coast line could be seen along the bay?

https://viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/WAL/CARN%20FADRYN.png

Don't believe people who say it's physically impossible to see something.
Panoramas based on GPS should not be used as proof or otherwise of what can be seen.
I first saw and photographed the Southern Uplands from Eryri(Carnedd Llywelyn) in the early 70s. The RAF Met bloke at Valley explained that sea temperature differentials can increase the apparent height of the hills and more rarely let you see over the physical horizon.
He also explained that it was the same reason how we could see the cables supporting Belmont transmitter from Sheffield(Crosspool 200m) 65 miles away.(Cold cables in early morning in April, hot Sun warms air more quickly than cables, 'lens' of cold air distorts the brighter eastern sky behind the transmitter.
Train tracks can cause the same phenomena as well as a mirror effect of the shinny track.