46115 'Scots Guardsman' potentially making a mainline return on 'The West Yorkshireman' 31/5/2025?

[RetroCrowe]

The Border City Express Steam Train From Bradford to Carlisle - The Settle Carlisle Railway

The Settle-Carlisle Railway warmly invites you to join us on a steam locomotive-hauled journey from Bradford to Carlisle on Saturday 4th October 2025, as part of the Railway 200 celebrations and Bradford City of Culture 2025. Our journey starts in Bradford Forster Square and we travel by steam...

settle-carlisle.co.uk

A rather intriguing new tour has been announced on the Settle & Carlisle Railway website. First of all, it must be quite rare for a tour to do the S&C northbound and then Shap southbound rather than the other way around. However, even more interesting is the fact that the locomotive being requested for this tour is 46115 Scots Guardsman. Certainly seems interesting that 46115 is the loco being publicly thrown out there - I would've thought WCR would've shot this request down long before tickets went on sale with 46115 as the loco listed on the website - could potentially suggest that WCR are planning on getting around to either sorting out the CDL on their mk1s or they're dual-braking 46115? Either way I'm skeptical, it would be fantastic to see 46115 back on the mainline but it seems to me like it might just be a mistake on the website.

Intrigued to hear what anyone more knowledgeable than myself thinks about this and what the likelihood is that it will actually be 46115's return.

 

[Dave S 56F]

Is this

The Border City Express Steam Train From Bradford to Carlisle - The Settle Carlisle Railway

The Settle-Carlisle Railway warmly invites you to join us on a steam locomotive-hauled journey from Bradford to Carlisle on Saturday 4th October 2025, as part of the Railway 200 celebrations and Bradford City of Culture 2025. Our journey starts in Bradford Forster Square and we travel by steam...

settle-carlisle.co.uk

A rather intriguing new tour has been announced on the Settle & Carlisle Railway website. First of all, it must be quite rare for a tour to do the S&C northbound and then Shap southbound rather than the other way around. However, even more interesting is the fact that the locomotive being requested for this tour is 46115 Scots Guardsman. Certainly seems interesting that 46115 is the loco being publicly thrown out there - I would've thought WCR would've shot this request down long before tickets went on sale with 46115 as the loco listed on the website - could potentially suggest that WCR are planning on getting around to either sorting out the CDL on their mk1s or they're dual-braking 46115? Either way I'm skeptical, it would be fantastic to see 46115 back on the mainline but it seems to me like it might just be a mistake on the website.

Intrigued to hear what anyone more knowledgeable than myself thinks about this and what the likelihood is that it will actually be 46115's return.

By the looks of it is this tour steam on both legs in and out of Bradford F SQ or is it steam on at Hellifield and steam off at Carnforth on the return southbound I've been after trying to look for a steam tour at least setting off one way out of Bradford F SQ Station the only tour I've seen to my knowledge to recently have steam traction from Bradford F SQ was northern belle tour on 8 Nov 2023 with 34067.

 

[30907]

By the looks of it is this tour steam on both legs in and out of Bradford F SQ or is it steam on at Hellifield and steam off at Carnforth on the return southbound

Reading the blurb it is steam from FS but diesel from Carnforth (necessarily because of the reversal).

 

[thejuggler]

The details are now released and traction is still believed to be Scots Guardsman.

Forster Square to Carlisle via S&C, return on WCML to Carnforth, change to diesel back to Forster Square.

 

[Iskra]

That does seem a little optimistic that the forecast light rain will materialise and substantially alter the fire risk picture.

 

[xotGD]

User friendly timings. Dep 08:51, arrive back 20:20.

Better than the stupid o'clock departures and late night returns that some tours inflict on the passengers.

 

[Iskra]

User friendly timings. Dep 08:51, arrive back 20:20.

Better than the stupid o'clock departures and late night returns that some tours inflict on the passengers.

Indeed, it's a nice triangular itinerary too, taking in three of my favourite lines without repetition. If I can make it work with work and the rain appears to allow for steam, I might make a last minute booking

...Although I did have Scots Guardsman and a Jube double-headed up Shap a few years ago, which is unlikely to be beaten.

 

[blackfive460]

46115 seems unlikely unless West Coast have either fitted the loco with air brakes or some Mk1s with CDL!

 

[Iskra]

46115 seems unlikely unless West Coast have either fitted the loco with air brakes or some Mk1s with CDL!

Could a second steam (or diesel) loco act as a translator?

 

[The Bear]

Could a second steam (or diesel) loco act as a translator?

Highly unlikely since one of things they got a telling off for in the fallout after the Wootton Bassett episode was operating both air brakes & vacuum brakes in the same train.
As I understand it, back in the day BR had instructions for this but there is nothing layed down for this in today's 'Railway Group Standards' & therefore shouldn't be happening.

 

[RetroCrowe]

RailAdvent and Railway Herald now both have Tornado listed as the locomotive for this tour rather than Scots Guardsman

 

[Iskra]

Interesting. I think the regular passengers will be happy with that choice of locomotive.

The rain does seem to have dampened the ground enough now for steam to run- my entirely non-expert opinion of course…

 

[Dave S 56F]

Interesting. I think the regular passengers will be happy with that choice of locomotive.

The rain does seem to have dampened the ground enough now for steam to run- my entirely non-expert opinion of course…

According to national preservation forums on network rail fire risk status its been issued as green since we had the quite heavy rain on Sunday Monday and Tuesday earlier this week.

 

[thejuggler]

Tornado gauging problems mean no steam into Forster Square. Diesel to start with loco swap at Hellifield.

 

[Dave S 56F]

Why cant they just switch the traction to 34067 Tangmere if that once did a northern belle tour out of Bradford Forster square on 8 Nov 2023?
I thought the whole point of this west Yorkshireman tour was to offer steam mileage from Bradford along the aire valley line Surely there cant be a weight restriction coming out of forster square cos there ain't any bridges that the line goes over any roads to shipley along valley rd and canal rd as the railway runs in a natural valley, and on there is roads that the line goes under unless its one of the road bridges going over the the railway coming out of forster square that's not in gauge for 60163 Tornado.
On a 3rd point is it anything to do with the clean air zone policy in Bradford City centre is it and one of the local M.P. for central Bradford dident like the idea of a steam train smoking out manor row clagging off from forster square? It's only a speculation when I suggest this.

 

[thejuggler]

There are dozens of potential loading gauge issues. I suspect Shipley station curve is a challenge for Tornado.

 

[30907]

Tornado gauging problems mean no steam into Forster Square. Diesel to start with loco swap at Hellifield.

Shame - at least my grandson hasn't been told about the train

Why cant they just switch the traction to 34067 Tangmere if that once did a northern belle tour out of Bradford Forster square on 8 Nov 2023?

Depends what else Tangmere is doing, surely?

I thought the whole point of this west Yorkshireman tour was to offer steam mileage from Bradford along the aire valley line Surely there cant be a weight restriction coming out of forster square cos there ain't any bridges that the line goes over any roads to shipley along valley rd and canal rd as the railway runs in a natural valley, and on there is roads that the line goes under unless its one of the road bridges going over the the railway coming out of forster square that's not in gauge for 60163 Tornado.

If it's a gauging restriction I would put my money on P5 at Shipley.

 

[DarloRich]

Why cant they just switch the traction to 34067 Tangmere if that once did a northern belle tour out of Bradford Forster square on 8 Nov 2023?

Because that might be foul of gauge also - things change.

I thought the whole point of this west Yorkshireman tour was to offer steam mileage from Bradford along the aire valley line Surely there cant be a weight restriction coming out of forster square cos there ain't any bridges that the line goes over any roads to shipley along valley rd and canal rd as the railway runs in a natural valley, and on there is roads that the line goes under unless its one of the road bridges going over the the railway coming out of forster square that's not in gauge for 60163 Tornado.

It is hard to understand your point here: there is more to "gauge" than weight.

On a 3rd point is it anything to do with the clean air zone policy in Bradford City centre is it and one of the local M.P. for central Bradford dident like the idea of a steam train smoking out manor row clagging off from forster square? It's only a speculation when I suggest this.

Do you really think that is a reason?

 

[Travellin’man]

There are dozens of potential loading gauge issues. I suspect Shipley station curve is a challenge for Tornado.

A few years back I witnessed 60532 going to Shipley to turn so it used every part of the triangle. If an A2 can do it then surely the new build A1 can

 

[Iskra]

I’ve just seen it through Keighley with 47815 & 57314 TNT with predominantly Blue & Grey Mk2’s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

Tour running late due to points failure at Hellifield

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

My footage of Tornado today:

 

[thejuggler]

Despite the disappointment of no steam into Bradford (rostered loco was Tangmere) and a half hour delay due to point failure into Hellifield goods loop all turned out well. By Carlisle delay was only ten minutes thanks to removing a scheduled stop at Appleby and assistance from the 47 on the rear helping keep up speed on the climb.

However whilst the Mk2s are very comfortable, if I want to experience steam I'll stick to heritage lines where you can open windows and hear the loco. Whether diesel or steam up front the trip felt no different. Quite a few passemgers around us were saying similar. Great day, but no real point in having a steam loco.

S&C are looking at repeating the trip in October with a steam loco that does meet gauge so it can start and finish in Bradford.
.

 

[Iskra]

Despite the disappointment of no steam into Bradford (rostered loco was Tangmere) and a half hour delay due to point failure into Hellifield goods loop all turned out well. By Carlisle delay was only ten minutes thanks to removing a scheduled stop at Appleby and assistance from the 47 on the rear helping keep up speed on the climb.

However whilst the Mk2s are very comfortable, if I want to experience steam I'll stick to heritage lines where you can open windows and hear the loco. Whether diesel or steam up front the trip felt no different. Quite a few passemgers around us were saying similar. Great day, but no real point in having a steam loco.

S&C are looking at repeating the trip in October with a steam loco that does meet gauge so it can start and finish in Bradford.
.

That’s good of them, and must mean that they felt it a success. It looked fully-booked from my vantage points, which is good to see.

 

[Dave S 56F]

Hi good early morning to everyone on U.K. rail forums I see the settle carlisle railway development company are rerunning the fun again in the hope steam traction will run from Bradford Forster square outwards up the ex Midland railway line both ways this time over ribblehead as far as Hellifield on the up back to Bradford on the 4 October 2025.
The border city express is the headboard this time for their train excursion it seems again price is reasonable for standard class and first class seats and the times picking up and setting down times look reasonable for people attending this tour by public transport.
Obviously the West Yorkshireman on the 31 May proved very popular from the settle carlisle development company 400 passengers apparently just boarded at Bradford Forster square although steam was meant to be from Bradford F.S. outward previously.
I have a funny feeling that if something like black 5 45212 or bulleid B.B. 34067 isent available and only 60163 Tornado is available I have a feeling that N.R. Will just rule the A1 out of gauge again to go round the shipley S.W. curve again and it will be once again steam only from Hellifield.
So this time I think ile keep my wallet shut for this one as I see very little chance of 7P loco 46115 Scots guardsman been on the tour unless carnforth have miraculously fitted it with a air brake before then and 45596 can't do the tour as its vac braked only.

Message to mods: please delete if you feel this I a duplicate post, And I got my information about this tour the border city express from 2 sources one when I were aboard the West Yorkshireman the train manager announced they were going to run a 2nd steam tour in October.
And I saw a advert on my Google newsfeed from the telegraph and argus advertising the exact date of the new settle carlisle development company,s border city express today.

 

[30907]

I imagine the tour promoters have taken locomotive issues into account when setting the date? Though of course, last minute failures can still happen.