Wellglade Group

[Np13]

Given there's 5 at Langley Mill now I'd be very surprised if none are in service in time for Download

 

[Jackoram06]

When are they likely to enter traffic?
Also, has the 19 been running and doing alright, because I'm having trouble finding the workings on bustimes.

19 is running to schedule it’s likely because the route swaps vehicles a few times a day. Unfortunately it does seem to run very thin in terms of passengers carried from what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t call any of the new Spondon routes successful they all seem empty. 19 is only a village loop in the middle of the day and 20/21 takes twice the amount of time as the flyer to get to town and the flyers are every 10mins now. I think the solution to the Spondon bus would be to reinstate the Spondon flyer but it to be altered to go via wyvern and derby train station even on an every half an hour frequency. Three new routes that don’t go where people want them to isn’t really a viable long term solution especially with how Chad and Oakwood residents feel about the cuts to their services. I can see all three routes being pulled when the funding runs out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Versa things

I like that!

I think the term versa things encompasses everything from a Christmas tree dashboard to your internal combustion engine becoming an external combustion engine.

I will say I do like them as busses tho I know they get hate but they’ve worked hard and I think some of the issues comes down to the routes they’ve been allocated on ie sixes wasn’t the best choice for them (they don’t even have enough vehicles to cover pvr anymore) but at the time when the solars were leaving there wasn’t much choice of vehicles. I do think it’s a sign of the times though that nothing is built to last anymore hence why we see a lot more problems with some of the newer vehicles in the fleet compared to others.

 

[bringiton]

Given there's 5 at Langley Mill now I'd be very surprised if none are in service in time for Download

Maybe...but they still need vinyls and drivers need to be type trained.. especially considering the new camera mirrors, so it'll probably be a few weeks yet

 

[Trainman40083]

19 is running to schedule it’s likely because the route swaps vehicles a few times a day. Unfortunately it does seem to run very thin in terms of passengers carried from what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t call any of the new Spondon routes successful they all seem empty. 19 is only a village loop in the middle of the day and 20/21 takes twice the amount of time as the flyer to get to town and the flyers are every 10mins now. I think the solution to the Spondon bus would be to reinstate the Spondon flyer but it to be altered to go via wyvern and derby train station even on an every half an hour frequency. Three new routes that don’t go where people want them to isn’t really a viable long term solution especially with how Chad and Oakwood residents feel about the cuts to their services. I can see all three routes being pulled when the funding runs out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==


I think the term versa things encompasses everything from a Christmas tree dashboard to your internal combustion engine becoming an external combustion engine.

I will say I do like them as busses tho I know they get hate but they’ve worked hard and I think some of the issues comes down to the routes they’ve been allocated on ie sixes wasn’t the best choice for them (they don’t even have enough vehicles to cover pvr anymore) but at the time when the solars were leaving there wasn’t much choice of vehicles. I do think it’s a sign of the times though that nothing is built to last anymore hence why we see a lot more problems with some of the newer vehicles in the fleet compared to others.

Re the first part of your message..An awful lot of people across Derby don't use the bus. .For many to do so, they may have to walk past a family car. For some, they might just order stuff of their computer.. But are bus users ever actually asked why they don't use the bus? Why is it discounted? Could be it doesn't go where people now go. Re the Versas. I wonder if 836 (collision Duffield) is expected back this year.. Maybe the Sixes Versas might go to TM Travel and replace their Scanias, of which 3 are still running (well they are compliant).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Maybe...but they still need vinyls and drivers need to be type trained.. especially considering the new camera mirrors, so it'll probably be a few weeks yet

Just think. With camera mirrors, you could have recording equipment to highlight when a cyclist undertakes, less than 1.5 metres distant. .That all said, when you come up behind an Enviro 200, I don't think the indicators are very clear if the brake lights are on...There seems little contrast.

 

[38291018]

I think the solution to the Spondon bus would be to reinstate the Spondon flyer but it to be altered to go via wyvern and derby train station even on an every half an hour frequency. Three new routes that don’t go where people want them to isn’t really a viable long term solution especially with how Chad and Oakwood residents feel about the cuts to their services. I can see all three routes being pulled when the funding runs out.

Just curious, why would you want to redirect the old spondon flyer past the wyvern and derby train station. I would just bring the old route but make it 1 way like arriva is doing on a half1h mabey even every 1h if that what it takes for TB/nottsderby to run it. I mean if it went past the wyvern match days will mess up timings and I could be wrong but surely people don't want to go there since arriva had a service there and it's kept getting reduced to the point Noone really uses it for wyvern now since it had low amount of passengers going there.

In regards to the 19 the only way I see that working is if it went from derby on the old flyer then routing it around smart park or even into alveston which I see unlikely with more likely the arrivas 4 gets extended past smartpark into spondon around the 19? At the moment there's no point taking a bus around a housing estate to the train station as most people want to go Derby and wouldn't get the train 1 stop.

With camera mirrors, you could have recording equipment to highlight when a cyclist undertakes, less than 1.5 metres distant. .That all said, when you come up behind an Enviro 200, I don't think the indicators are very clear if the brake lights are on...There seems little contrast.

Ye I agree with indicators and out curiosity do camera mirrors take a long time to get used to

 

[Jackoram06]

Just curious, why would you want to redirect the old spondon flyer past the wyvern and derby train station. I would just bring the old route but make it 1 way like arriva is doing on a half1h mabey even every 1h if that what it takes for TB/nottsderby to run it. I mean if it went past the wyvern match days will mess up timings and I could be wrong but surely people don't want to go there since arriva had a service there and it's kept getting reduced to the point Noone really uses it for wyvern now since it had low amount of passengers going there.

The old flyer route was very busy and often standing room only on several occasions. So why was it axed? It comes down to the type of passengers mostly being gold card users they don’t provide the revenue a fare paying passenger would. Hence why I suggested a diversion to the original route the wyvern and pride park is a very busy place with lots of offices and shops but also going to Derby and faster than the 20/21 would get there. I know pleanty of people who would use it to connect to trains or get to work also you would likely have more gold card users who could then access more shops which would potentially see them use the service more often.

The flyer was a one way route at the time it was discontinued but I think that’s mostly a result of the one way section of road outside the white swan.

Pride park is quite a popular place to go hence why arriva operate the wyn route to connect it to its other services in Derby.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Just to add to my comments above. The timings for the 19 seem slightly off as well for anyone wanting to connect at Spondon station the bus arrives about 7 mins after the train to Derby has left so you if you did want to connect you’d have to arrive about half an hour before your train leaves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Just to add to my comments above. The timings for the 19 seem slightly off as well for anyone wanting to connect at Spondon station the bus arrives about 7 mins after the train to Derby has left so you if you did want to connect you’d have to arrive about half an hour before your train leaves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

The old flyer route was very busy and often standing room only on several occasions. So why was it axed? It comes down to the type of passengers mostly being gold card users they don’t provide the revenue a fare paying passenger would. Hence why I suggested a diversion to the original route the wyvern and pride park is a very busy place with lots of offices and shops but also going to Derby and faster than the 20/21 would get there. I know pleanty of people who would use it to connect to trains or get to work also you would likely have more gold card users who could then access more shops which would potentially see them use the service more often.

The flyer was a one way route at the time it was discontinued but I think that’s mostly a result of the one way section of road outside the white swan.

Pride park is quite a popular place to go hence why arriva operate the wyn route to connect it to its other services in Derby.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Just to add to my comments above. The timings for the 19 seem slightly off as well for anyone wanting to connect at Spondon station the bus arrives about 7 mins after the train to Derby has left so you if you did want to connect you’d have to arrive about half an hour before your train leaves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Just to add to my comments above. The timings for the 19 seem slightly off as well for anyone wanting to connect at Spondon station the bus arrives about 7 mins after the train to Derby has left so you if you did want to connect you’d have to arrive about half an hour before your train leaves.

All of that was hypothetical as much as I’d love to see a service like that or the old Spondon flyer reinstated I don’t think it would be commercially viable at this time or socially viable and constitute funding however we will wait and see what happens next in regards to the 19/20/21 when funding expires.

 

[Trainman40083]

The old flyer route was very busy and often standing room only on several occasions. So why was it axed? It comes down to the type of passengers mostly being gold card users they don’t provide the revenue a fare paying passenger would. Hence why I suggested a diversion to the original route the wyvern and pride park is a very busy place with lots of offices and shops but also going to Derby and faster than the 20/21 would get there. I know pleanty of people who would use it to connect to trains or get to work also you would likely have more gold card users who could then access more shops which would potentially see them use the service more often.

The flyer was a one way route at the time it was discontinued but I think that’s mostly a result of the one way section of road outside the white swan.

Pride park is quite a popular place to go hence why arriva operate the wyn route to connect it to its other services in Derby.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Just to add to my comments above. The timings for the 19 seem slightly off as well for anyone wanting to connect at Spondon station the bus arrives about 7 mins after the train to Derby has left so you if you did want to connect you’d have to arrive about half an hour before your train leaves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Just to add to my comments above. The timings for the 19 seem slightly off as well for anyone wanting to connect at Spondon station the bus arrives about 7 mins after the train to Derby has left so you if you did want to connect you’d have to arrive about half an hour before your train leaves.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==


All of that was hypothetical as much as I’d love to see a service like that or the old Spondon flyer reinstated I don’t think it would be commercially viable at this time or socially viable and constitute funding however we will wait and see what happens next in regards to the 19/20/21 when funding expires.

But do all the route 19s go to the railway station? Specifically the double deckers. There was some comment about where they turn round. Is the road towards Raynesway still closed? I guess they would not run a Spondon Flyer fast, cos that would take business off the Ilkeston Flyer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

YX25 OFC/D/E/F/J are now at Langley Mill for Skylink

YX25 OFB has also been reported

 

[Jackoram06]

But do all the route 19s go to the railway station? Specifically the double deckers. There was some comment about where they turn round. Is the road towards Raynesway still closed? I guess they would not run a Spondon Flyer fast, cos that would take business off the Ilkeston Flyer.

Yes all 19s start/terminate at Spondon station I haven’t been to see where they turn around however I need to go that way tomorrow so will try and time it to find out unless anyone else on the thread is aware.

That sums up the current state of services which is why run 2 routes when you can run one which all your fare paying passengers will catch instead. Back when the services were launched they had different operators. SF was a Trent service and IF a prominently Felix service but now there’s a somewhat of a monopoly over a lot of the areas served understandably changes are made to increase profits.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes all 19s start/terminate at Spondon station I haven’t been to see where they turn around however I need to go that way tomorrow so will try and time it to find out unless anyone else on the thread is aware.

That sums up the current state of services which is why run 2 routes when you can run one which all your fare paying passengers will catch instead. Back when the services were launched they had different operators. SF was a Trent service and IF a prominently Felix service but now there’s a somewhat of a monopoly over a lot of the areas served understandably changes are made to increase profits.

Sorry, the Ilkeston Flyer was never a prominently Felix service. Felix ran one bus on the service (later Scania 600?) Trentbarton ran the rest. .Of course the other route through Stanley had Felix and the 32, both running hourly. Midland General took over Felix, and soon that route was down to hourly. I remember Felix buses full and standing. I seem to recall the Spondon Flyer becoming very erratic before it finished. .Lucky if it was one bus every 40 minutes (rather than every 20) ..When times are hard, and resources tight, you pull less profitable services where alternatives (not necessarily ideal) exist.

 

[38291018]

Is the road towards Raynesway still closed?

Yes

Can't be too long now till the redarrows will be here. It was reported somewhere I think in a article online https://westbridgfordwire.com/red-arrow-derby-nottingham-to-get-10-new-coaches-in-3m-investment/ there due by the end of spring so unless there slightly delayed which I'm guessing it may be, they will be here by this next month

 

[bringiton]

Can't be too long now till the redarrows will be here. It was reported somewhere I think in a article online https://westbridgfordwire.com/red-arrow-derby-nottingham-to-get-10-new-coaches-in-3m-investment/ there due by the end of spring so unless there slightly delayed which I'm guessing it may be, they will be here by this next month

I've heard they were delayed, but not from an official source so not fully sure

 

[joieman]

I'm guessing the blue like on the rears of kinch livery buses is on skylinks to make it better known its a kinch not TB route and if so does this mean TB skylinks when replaces will have something on it to mark it as a TB route? Because seems odd ti me that they would change it from yellow with curved backs that are aligned with the planes on the side unless they marking it as kinchbus as its near enough or is the same yellow and blue also this may allow buses from other routes and this route to go between the 2 better even if it has skylink written on the side.

With Kinchbus's entire fleet being replaced, I'd imagine that it would be seen as the perfect time to overhaul Kinchbus's entire corporate identity.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes

Can't be too long now till the redarrows will be here. It was reported somewhere I think in a article online https://westbridgfordwire.com/red-arrow-derby-nottingham-to-get-10-new-coaches-in-3m-investment/ there due by the end of spring so unless there slightly delayed which I'm guessing it may be, they will be here by this next month

It was always fun getting material out of China, in the rail industry. There was Chinese New Year (that could see factories shut for a month)...Then there is the 6 week shipping time. I guess at some point one will turn up at Pelican at Castleford. Then of course, there should be the Flixbus ones. If all the Yutongs had been built together, they would all have fitted on one ship. Best hope it doesn't get caught in storms

 

[Jackoram06]

Sorry, the Ilkeston Flyer was never a prominently Felix service. Felix ran one bus on the service (later Scania 600?) Trentbarton ran the rest. .Of course the other route through Stanley had Felix and the 32, both running hourly. Midland General took over Felix, and soon that route was down to hourly. I remember Felix buses full and standing. I seem to recall the Spondon Flyer becoming very erratic before it finished. .Lucky if it was one bus every 40 minutes (rather than every 20) ..When times are hard, and resources tight, you pull less profitable services where alternatives (not necessarily ideal) exist.

Apologies must have had it the wrong way round in my head I was thinking Felix did 2 and Trent did 1 service an hour. In its last year it definitely wasn’t a priority service and Covid gave it the final nail.

 

[Trainman40083]

Apologies must have had it the wrong way round in my head I was thinking Felix did 2 and Trent did 1 service an hour. In its last year it definitely wasn’t a priority service and Covid gave it the final nail.

I think it might have been 3 Trentbarton and 1 Felix.. It all got fun and games when Your bus started running. .Hey, many moons ago, I remember someone had a go at Trentbarton about the state of their bus on the Ilkeston Flyer. TB could quite work out what the issue was. Notts and Derby were running an ex TB Optare Excel still in TB livery.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

YX25 OFC/D/E/F/J are now at Langley Mill for Skylink

Is OFF actually valid? Might have thought DVLA would have restricted that.. (good job not F prefix).....Could be OFB.

 

[liamf656]

My mistake, OFM, not OFF. Previous post amended

 

[Trainman40083]

My mistake, OFM, not OFF. Previous post amended

That sounds like a typical Crosville registration from about 50 years ago

 

[callum3490]

Rumours that the Kinch skylinks could go over to trentbartons blue skylinks - Is this really likely? Both sets of buses are on around the same mileage just one set are 2 and a half years older… otherwise same spec etc? Can’t see that being of any benefit surely?

 

[Jackoram06]

Rumours that the Kinch skylinks could go over to trentbartons blue skylinks - Is this really likely? Both sets of buses are on around the same mileage just one set are 2 and a half years older… otherwise same spec etc? Can’t see that being of any benefit surely?

They’ll probably only send the 67 plate which came off the Skylink Nottingham anyway which would be required to replace the one that got the external combustion engine modification from a few weeks back.

 

[Trainman40083]

Rumours that the Kinch skylinks could go over to trentbartons blue skylinks - Is this really likely? Both sets of buses are on around the same mileage just one set are 2 and a half years older… otherwise same spec etc? Can’t see that being of any benefit surely?

I thought the Skylink blues were on around 200,000 miles more... Serious mileage being clocked up.

 

[bringiton]

I thought the Skylink blues were on around 200,000 miles more... Serious mileage being clocked up.

Its way more than 200,000. Attached, 124's last mot check saying 601,567 miles

 

[Jackoram06]

Its way more than 200,000. Attached, 124's last mot check saying 601,567 miles

Would seem about right when you look at 146 had it’s mot in March and that was 421k miles

 

[38291018]

Rumours that the Kinch skylinks could go over to trentbartons blue skylinks - Is this really likely?

No idea if this is true but wouldn't that mean the blue skylinks will need repainting so there all under the same livery and if was true how are they going to differ the 2 skylinks (excluding express) if there the same livery

Also on the centrebus thread unsure how true it is but someone has mentioned there 3 and 13 is being dropped and a tempory tender is in place till kinch is ready for the contract. I've copied the post below of what they said but go to the centrebus page if you want read more

"It is a little complicated and I'm not clear on all the details but I believe that long term Kinch will be doing something to cover the areas served by the 3 & 13 in some manner (possibly a diverted & extended 2 could work but I may be wrong on that as I am working off 3rd hand comments) however it appears they will not be in a position to take over in June so a temporary tender has been issued to bridge the gap - no operator has yet been announced for that temporary contract"

 

[bringiton]

Would seem about right when you look at 146 had it’s mot in March and that was 421k miles

Oh yeah, i thought he meant are on 200,000 miles. Some probably have got the 200k difference, depends the vehicle tbf, the odd ones would of had less service time than some others (151 for example)

 

[Jackoram06]

Oh yeah, i thought he meant are on 200,000 miles. Some probably have got the 200k difference, depends the vehicle tbf, the odd ones would of had less service time than some others (151 for example)

Yeah I still think it’s unlikely that the displaced yellows would become blues there’s other routes that need a full set of vehicles as a priority. I would imagine as I said vff would return to Nottingham but the others would be sent elsewhere. Am I correct in thinking it’s a fairly flat route? Doesn’t seem to be heavily reliant on spares either? For the SN?

 

[bringiton]

Yeah I still think it’s unlikely that the displaced yellows would become blues there’s other routes that need a full set of vehicles as a priority. I would imagine as I said vff would return to Nottingham but the others would be sent elsewhere. Am I correct in thinking it’s a fairly flat route?

Skylink nottingham to airport is fairly easy yes... its more the coalville leg id say, quite tight at parts and quite fast too. The main part of Notts to ema is the stop starting picking up lots of people, whereas ema to coalville its quite light on passengers at points and theres very few stops to stop at anyway.

Doesn’t seem to be heavily reliant on spares either? For the SN?

Some days ive seen 2 or 3 spares on, and that was pre 125 going up...

 

[Jackoram06]

Skylink nottingham to airport is fairly easy yes... its more the coalville leg id say, quite tight at parts and quite fast too. The main part of Notts to ema is the stop starting picking up lots of people, whereas ema to coalville its quite light on passengers at points and theres very few stops to stop at anyway.


Some days ive seen 2 or 3 spares on, and that was pre 125 going up...

Would it be likely that ema to Coalville could become part of the drt? In favour of keeping the busses between Notts and ema?

 

[bringiton]

Would it be likely that ema to Coalville could become part of the drt? In favour of keeping the busses between Notts and ema?

Nah, alot of people get skylink from on around beeston (and other parts of the route) towards coalville, so you'd essentially cut alot of people off and make them have to get multiple busses, which might put people off

 

[Mr TrainGuy]

Would it be likely that ema to Coalville could become part of the drt? In favour of keeping the busses between Notts and ema?

The DRT is bad enough as is - don't think we need more people suffering from the plagued Mercedes vans and the unreliable app saying buses are unavailable or full when they are in fact the complete opposite!

 

[Trainman40083]

Oh yeah, i thought he meant are on 200,000 miles. Some probably have got the 200k difference, depends the vehicle tbf, the odd ones would of had less service time than some others (151 for example)

Sorry, I meant their mileages were roughly 200k apart, like 400k to 600k, but I only checked one pair of buses.