Wellglade Group

[bringiton]

Sorry, I meant their mileages were roughly 200k apart, like 400k to 600k, but I only checked one pair of buses.

Yeah i realised after I sent my message

 

[38291018]

The main part of Notts to ema is the stop starting picking up lots of people, whereas ema to coalville its quite light on passengers at points and theres very few stops to stop at anyway.

Ye whenever I have caught the skylink and gone past EMA into Coalville it's only been me and around 3 others if your lucky but I did go very late such as second to last bus at times.
How well used is the EMA Coalville section and skylink is fully commercial right? Does EMA subsidise anything or even any other TB/kinch route? Saying that the arriva 16 uses deckers on the skylink section from coalville to Shepshed unless everyone's goes coalville loughborough i dont know but I imagine it picks up a few people in Long watton to EMA and coalville

Nah, alot of people get skylink from on around beeston (and other parts of the route) towards coalville, so you'd essentially cut alot of people off and make them have to get multiple busses, which might put people off

I agree the DRT should not be implemented and not saying your wrong but as I never really rode all way to Coalville but why would anyone from areas such as beeston go Coalville. It's a long way fromm nottingham, beeston ect. Mabey a few people could work in Coalville from the likes of castle donnington and longeaton.

 

[bringiton]

and not saying your wrong but as I never really rode all way to Coalville but why would anyone from areas such as beeston go Coalville.

It was the first location i could think of on the route tbf, but I know there were a few people getting on at the (chilwell) retail park towards coalville (some might of got off in shepshed too). I've only done the coalville leg once, however it was the second to last run of the day there so was really busy. Id assume the main people using it to get to coalville are workers, was the case though that the outbound run to nottingham was quite empty.

Usually mid day when theres a coalville bound theres a few people, however may return to ema after with alot more passengers on

 

[joieman]

Nah, alot of people get skylink from on around beeston (and other parts of the route) towards coalville, so you'd essentially cut alot of people off and make them have to get multiple busses, which might put people off

I wondered if it would be feasible to attach the Coalville leg to the Skylink Express instead. This would mean direct service to East Midlands Gateway and a faster service into Nottingham.

 

[38291018]

Probably but to be fair I seen people once or twice from castle donnington (for coalville), long watton (towards notts although doubt they will go further than say long eaton) get on so they will have change and I assume there will be more shorter journeys lost as they need change and would thought fewer goes all way notts so I'll say makes sence for skylink to do it.

 

[Mr TrainGuy]

I wondered if it would be feasible to attach the Coalville leg to the Skylink Express instead. This would mean direct service to East Midlands Gateway and a faster service into Nottingham.

Would've thought the point of the skylink express was to provide a quick, decently short link between Nottingham and EMA, extending it to Coalville would surely ruin the purpose of the 'express', with there being more variables in play e.g. could hit more congestion or delays which would hamper the Nottingham - EMA leg.

 

[Jackoram06]

Given the similarity between the new and old Skylink vehicles and the situation that Kinch is in being so short of busses would it be a possibility that there is an almost “soft launch” to the service with some busses entering service early or before the rest? Or will they stick to what they usually and launch it all at once from a set day? Has anything like that happened in the past?

 

[YX73OUB]

Given the similarity between the new and old Skylink vehicles and the situation that Kinch is in being so short of busses would it be a possibility that there is an almost “soft launch” to the service with some busses entering service early or before the rest? Or will they stick to what they usually and launch it all at once from a set day? Has anything like that happened in the past?

Yes - the threes were brought in bus by bus with the launch events being held when we were back to strength.

 

[joieman]

Would've thought the point of the skylink express was to provide a quick, decently short link between Nottingham and EMA, extending it to Coalville would surely ruin the purpose of the 'express', with there being more variables in play e.g. could hit more congestion or delays which would hamper the Nottingham - EMA leg.

True, but then again the Skylink Derby does already function in a similar way through having an express section between Loughborough and Leicester.

 

[Robertj21a]

Just curious, why would you want to redirect the old spondon flyer past the wyvern and derby train station. I would just bring the old route but make it 1 way like arriva is doing on a half1h mabey even every 1h if that what it takes for TB/nottsderby to run it. I mean if it went past the wyvern match days will mess up timings and I could be wrong but surely people don't want to go there since arriva had a service there and it's kept getting reduced to the point Noone really uses it for wyvern now since it had low amount of passengers going there.

In regards to the 19 the only way I see that working is if it went from derby on the old flyer then routing it around smart park or even into alveston which I see unlikely with more likely the arrivas 4 gets extended past smartpark into spondon around the 19? At the moment there's no point taking a bus around a housing estate to the train station as most people want to go Derby and wouldn't get the train 1 stop.


Ye I agree with indicators and out curiosity do camera mirrors take a long time to get used to

The drivers now using new buses with mirrors elsewhere seem to adapt in 10-20 mins, once they check how to use a couple of the features.

 

[Robertj21a]

True, but then again the Skylink Derby does already function in a similar way through having an express section between Loughborough and Leicester.

Coalville to EMA is a large waste of space, used by hardly any passengers. I *assume* that it must be funded by EMA.

 

[49er]

No idea if this is true but wouldn't that mean the blue skylinks will need repainting so there all under the same livery and if was true how are they going to differ the 2 skylinks (excluding express) if there the same livery

Also on the centrebus thread unsure how true it is but someone has mentioned there 3 and 13 is being dropped and a tempory tender is in place till kinch is ready for the contract. I've copied the post below of what they said but go to the centrebus page if you want read more

"It is a little complicated and I'm not clear on all the details but I believe that long term Kinch will be doing something to cover the areas served by the 3 & 13 in some manner (possibly a diverted & extended 2 could work but I may be wrong on that as I am working off 3rd hand comments) however it appears they will not be in a position to take over in June so a temporary tender has been issued to bridge the gap - no operator has yet been announced for that temporary contract"

Kinch definitely have a plan to take on the 3. They would interwork it with the 2 to enable an hourly frequency to Barrow and Sileby. The new 2 would divert in Loughborough via Great Central Road, Windmill Rd and Beeches Rd to provide a partial replacement for the withdrawn 13. This was all outlined on a 'Proposed Changes' map displayed on a Kinch stand at the Leicestershire County Council 'Active Transport' roadshow held in Loughborough in January. A senior member of Trentbarton was also on hand to confirm my interpretation of the map. Also shown were proposed routes for 5 and 12 to the south of the town. I rather expected that to be happening at the end of May, but clearly Kinch are not yet ready. Perhaps waiting till they are sure they have a more reliable set of vehicles? Versa 822 which is usually assigned to the 2 failed yet again at Quorn on Weds afternoon.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Re Spondon. Ilkeston flyer and y3 offered such a frequent service along the main road, those who could walk to the main road did. Trent like main road corridors, what is the point of offering other services that deviate slightly - from a commercial point of view it's better to have a frequent more direct route, to the detriment of what we're local services in Spondon and Kirk Hallam. Also worth noting Ilkeston flyer was limited stop, it now stops at all the stops along the route. Similar story in Borrowash, x17 and zoom banished as they just took passengers away from i4 and indigo.

Re 19, would be better running hourly and connecting wyvern and derby station. At least would open up new connections that may be used. Add some earlier and later trips to coincide with smartparc shift changes and you may get a worthwhile service.

The council/bsip funded changes with arriva 20/21 and notts and derby 19 are poorly thought out. They ticked boxes by providing a service, but little thought has been given into their long term viability. Much of the routes duplicate central connects 9/9a, and no thought given to smartparc shift change times - the 20 doesn't stop anywhere near it on outbound trips. Hopefully the services can be adjusted before the funding ends, to get better use out of the resources being paid for.

 

[Trainman40083]

742 on Spondon 19 today.

 

[Jackoram06]

How are the other new ND routes doing? 55 147 and 148?

 

[YX73OUB]

55 always seems well loaded in Alfreton when I see it

 

[Trainman40083]

How are the other new ND routes doing? 55 147 and 148?

Probably a damn sight more reliable than they were.

 

[derbybusdepot]

How are the other new ND routes doing? 55 147 and 148?

Guessing the 55 had to be slimmed down to a 2 bus working to make it viable. Even if carries a lot, maybe it doesn't make that much profit, which is likely the reason stagecoach gave it up in the first place.

 

[m79900]

Can someone explain to me how a well loaded service can not make money, but often thinly loaded routes such as Allestree can? It doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Can someone explain to me how a well loaded service can not make money, but often thinly loaded routes such as Allestree can? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Lots of gold card users making longer trips with low reimbursement.

Allestree serves 2 or 3 schools, so maybe the kids traveling 5 days a week, plus those travelling to the university are major factors that keep it going.

Overall there is a trend away from people travelling for conventional 9 to 5 jobs as many of these work from home. Even with an uptick in leisure travel, which is less frequent and more sporadic in comparison, it does mean overall there is a downward trend in bus usage.

 

[Trainman40083]

Lots of gold card users making longer trips with low reimbursement.

Allestree serves 2 or 3 schools, so maybe the kids traveling 5 days a week, plus those travelling to the university are major factors that keep it going.

Overall there is a trend away from people travelling for conventional 9 to 5 jobs as many of these work from home. Even with an uptick in leisure travel, which is less frequent and more sporadic in comparison, it does mean overall there is a downward trend in bus usage.

I am sure I read somewhere, that reimbursement for ENCTS was around 20% of the normal fare. So you could see a full bus struggling to cover, say £50 per hour. It might cover the direct costs of providing a bus, but not the overheads, including all head office functions. (Bear in mind many years ago, it was half fare). Now you might say, well charge the ENCTS passholders.. But if a fair percentage of them ceased travel, went by car, taxi etc, it might make the bus less profitable. As is said, the Allestree serves the University and three schools. I'd say Woodlands School has the biggest load, and it interesting to see the pupils walk 3 or 4 stops in advance of the stops just to be able to get on. Now , pupils for Woodlands come from quite a wide area, certainly Mackworth and beyond. Makes Markeaton Lane busy. If you catch a bus out of Derby around 15.30 to 16.00 there is a fair queue into Derby. Now the poster above mentions people working from home. I'd say more work in places other than Derby City Centre. Some work at the University (and walk via Park Farm) some work at the Royal (getting there around 07.00, so before public transport). Some run a business based at home (or man in a van). Many shoppers like to buy off the Internet, shop at Park Farm, plus anywhere other than Derby. So, without the school traffic, the Allestree service would be cut. Of course, Allestree passengers in the know, don't catch the Allestree bus if it is timed to be invaded by schoolchildren. PS. Not heard of anyone being stabbed on the bus there for a few weeks. You know, what does surprise me is that ENCTS is just tap on. With tap off, data would be available to understand where said ENCTS passengers were going. I'd think there is also some passengers travel too and from Park Farm.

Re Spondon. Ilkeston flyer and y3 offered such a frequent service along the main road, those who could walk to the main road did. Trent like main road corridors, what is the point of offering other services that deviate slightly - from a commercial point of view it's better to have a frequent more direct route, to the detriment of what we're local services in Spondon and Kirk Hallam. Also worth noting Ilkeston flyer was limited stop, it now stops at all the stops along the route. Similar story in Borrowash, x17 and zoom banished as they just took passengers away from i4 and indigo.

Re 19, would be better running hourly and connecting wyvern and derby station. At least would open up new connections that may be used. Add some earlier and later trips to coincide with smartparc shift changes and you may get a worthwhile service.

The council/bsip funded changes with arriva 20/21 and notts and derby 19 are poorly thought out. They ticked boxes by providing a service, but little thought has been given into their long term viability. Much of the routes duplicate central connects 9/9a, and no thought given to smartparc shift change times - the 20 doesn't stop anywhere near it on outbound trips. Hopefully the services can be adjusted before the funding ends, to get better use out of the resources being paid for.

I can see services finishing when BSIP funding ends. Were those services the RIGHT solution to the real problem, or more, we have Government money to piss down the drain. We have to spend it, doesn't matter on what. I guess a key question would be what would make fare paying passengers use the service. But that said, I can see why people drive. I used the bus to go into Derby today (first time in 3 weeks). Caught High Peak Solo SR 297 down. The ride quality considering the state of Kedleston Road was okay. Made the mistake of catching the Allestree back. Bus 267. I nearly got off on Cathedral Road. Jerky, rattles and hit every hot in the road. Someone tell me why the ride quality on a Solo is 100 times better. Is it the seats? How the seats are mounted? There has to be a reason. Even a Versa gives a better ride. What would TB say? Let's buy more

 

[Jackoram06]

I do think it’s a shame that Trent don’t seem to chase these issues as much as they did in the past. They seem to just accept poor build quality and get on with it. I remeber in the past when the tempo sr were assisted by a branded metrocity for the i4 as they weren’t happy with the quality and didn’t order anymore of them. Is there still the Sutton based white mmc or has that been sent back to adl?

 

[liamf656]

I do think it’s a shame that Trent don’t seem to chase these issues as much as they did in the past. They seem to just accept poor build quality and get on with it. I remeber in the past when the tempo sr were assisted by a branded metrocity for the i4 as they weren’t happy with the quality and didn’t order anymore of them. Is there still the Sutton based white mmc or has that been sent back to adl?

The Metrocity was loaned by Optare so the Tempo SRs could have warranty work done, but we won't forget their very public response to the 2007 Tempo fiasco, which led to them placing retaliation orders with Mercedes and Volvo, and vowing to never buy from Optare again (despite that lasting a year)

The leased ADL is still with trentbarton, used only on the Nines or Threes

 

[Trainman40083]

The Metrocity was loaned by Optare so the Tempo SRs could have warranty work done, but we won't forget their very public response to the 2007 Tempo fiasco, which led to them placing retaliation orders with Mercedes and Volvo, and vowing to never buy from Optare again (despite that lasting a year)

The leased ADL is still with trentbarton, used only on the Nines or Threes

Yes, I saw white Enviro 277 only yesterday, Must be a lot of warranty issues, given how long it has been with Trentbarton. Thursday it was flying down the A38 towards Derby. I remember riding on one of the 07 plated Optare Tempos on the Black Cat. It was about a week old, and the door fell off. That all said, the Solo has been a good bus..and still is. I suspect some of the lightweight buses were ordered with a view of replacing them in about 7 years. .

 

[Mugby]

Re Spondon. Ilkeston flyer and y3 offered such a frequent service along the main road, those who could walk to the main road did. Trent like main road corridors, what is the point of offering other services that deviate slightly - from a commercial point of view it's better to have a frequent more direct route, to the detriment of what we're local services in Spondon and Kirk Hallam. Also worth noting Ilkeston flyer was limited stop, it now stops at all the stops along the route. Similar story in Borrowash, x17 and zoom banished as they just took passengers away from i4 and indigo.

I'd completely forgotten about Zoom although I did actually use it a few times. Was it a fast service from Derby to Long Eaton? Can you remind me of the route it took?

 

[Robertj21a]

There's clear comments above about Trentbarton, vehicle quality, care etc.
People seem to have forgotten that this really isn't the top notch 'Really Good Bus Co' that it was just a few years ago..

 

[liamf656]

I'd completely forgotten about Zoom although I did actually use it a few times. Was it a fast service from Derby to Long Eaton? Can you remind me of the route it took?

Derby - non stop - Borrowash- Long Eaton. Introduced in 2013 to replace the X17 but also the bite back at Yourbus. Various extensions to Sawley were tried, then eventually it was passed down to Notts & Derby in 2017 in return of full operation of Ilkeston Flyer. The service is long gone now

 

[derbybusdepot]

Derby - non stop - Borrowash- Long Eaton. Introduced in 2013 to replace the X17 but also the bite back at Yourbus. Various extensions to Sawley were tried, then eventually it was passed down to Notts & Derby in 2017 in return of full operation of Ilkeston Flyer. The service is long gone now

Did the x17 not continue to operate alongside zoom, being extended to long Eaton when zoom finished? Of course many who used zig zag or mango switched back to using indigo.

 

[liamf656]

Did the x17 not continue to operate alongside zoom, being extended to long Eaton when zoom finished? Of course many who used zig zag or mango switched back to using indigo.

I think they ran alongside *very* briefly, however there was a period where Zoom was running on its own. I seem to recall it being re-routed round Borrowash, then when Zoom finished Notts & Derby ran it as the 12/12A

 

[Trainman40083]

I'd completely forgotten about Zoom although I did actually use it a few times. Was it a fast service from Derby to Long Eaton? Can you remind me of the route it took?

A52 fast to Borrowash Victoria Avenue, then normal route to Long Eaton. I also used it, cos it seemed much quicker. I guess when Your bus finished, it was one Trentbarton bus competing with another. Cracking ride on a Solo, weaving in and out of parked cars; less so with a Scania. Think it looped round at Asda in Long Eaton.