Global Airlines launch flights announced

[Failed Unit]

When you look at the vloggers reviews, most of them seemed to have gone elsewhere since. Maybe they will get their 2 meals on the way back My Calder on his independent review seemed the most positive out of the ones I read / watched.

 

[ainsworth74]

When you look at the vloggers reviews, most of them seemed to have gone elsewhere since. Maybe they will get their 2 meals on the way back My Calder on his independent review seemed the most positive out of the ones I read / watched.

Which is of course ironic because the CEO gave him the most grief!

 

[alholmes]

Which is of course ironic because the CEO gave him the most grief!

Perhaps he’s just holding back from saying what he really thinks until after the return flight, to ensure he doesn’t get bumped off the flight.

 

[John R]

Perhaps he’s just holding back from saying what he really thinks until after the return flight, to ensure he doesn’t get bumped off the flight.

I doubt he'll have stayed in New York for several days, and will have travelled back the following day.

 

[Iskra]

From the one review I watched; while there were clearly teething issues which comes with any new operation, for the (low) price paid it seems to compare reasonably with the only airline I’ve used that does a similar route at a similar price (Aer Lingus Manchester-JFK). For a similar price you get to do it on an A380 instead of a narrow body.

That said, the main issue for me is one of trusting them not to go bankrupt while sitting on my fare money, and also what happens if things go wrong and a flight is cancelled, do you have to wait 10 days or so for the next flight they operate to the UK or are you on your own? Neither option seems great!

 

[Failed Unit]

From the one review I watched; while there were clearly teething issues which comes with any new operation, for the (low) price paid it seems to compare reasonably with the only airline I’ve used that does a similar route at a similar price (Aer Lingus Manchester-JFK). For a similar price you get to do it on an A380 instead of a narrow body.

That said, the main issue for me is one of trusting them not to go bankrupt while sitting on my fare money, and also what happens if things go wrong and a flight is cancelled, do you have to wait 10 days or so for the next flight they operate to the UK or are you on your own? Neither option seems great!

Some of the teething problems seemed a bit off. I would have expected that they would have done a significant amount of training on the ground (or at least got the crews familiar with the menu.) I have in the past gone to restaurants soft launches. They tend to offer 1/2 price food on the understand that they are familiarizing themselves with the service. I doubt they would invite critics to such an session.

Maybe it isn't easy to test these things on a mock-up aircraft in a warehouse.

I suspect Richard Branson is probably glad he didn't have the vloggers back in the day he did his first virgin Atlantic flight. I am not sure if the CEO was actually on board or just at the airport. Watching the reviews, they may still be sorting these teething problems for a few flights. will the public for this on the job trianing, or just use Delta from Edinburgh? We will see.

 

[Ted633]

Some of the teething problems seemed a bit off. I would have expected that they would have done a significant amount of training on the ground (or at least got the crews familiar with the menu.) I have in the past gone to restaurants soft launches. They tend to offer 1/2 price food on the understand that they are familiarizing themselves with the service. I doubt they would invite critics to such an session.

Maybe it isn't easy to test these things on a mock-up aircraft in a warehouse.

I suspect Richard Branson is probably glad he didn't have the vloggers back in the day he did his first virgin Atlantic flight. I am not sure if the CEO was actually on board or just at the airport. Watching the reviews, they may still be sorting these teething problems for a few flights. will the public for this on the job trianing, or just use Delta from Edinburgh? We will see.

In the past, airlines have got volunteers/staff to act as passengers on a ‘simulated’ flight. ie, the aircraft sits on the ground for 12 hours, but a full meal service & IFE etc is provided to check everything works smoothly. No need for a simulator in a warehouse.
BA certainly did this when their first 380 arrived.

As for Global, no one seems to be know if they are HiFly cabin crew or their own.

The whole operation is very bizarre. They only own the aircraft and don’t have an AOC (hence using HiFly). Bookings are done through another company and use their ATOL protection, as again Global don’t have their own.
There is no ‘plan’ beyond these 2 random charter flights. You surely would know your business plan before even thinking about buying an aircraft.

Can suggest reading the thread on PPRUNE forums.

 

[Darandio]

As for Global, no one seems to be know if they are HiFly cabin crew or their own.

The consensus from some videos is that's they are HiFly cabin crew given that the poor service matches that of previous experiences.

 

[RichJF]

Working in the industry, it screams wealthy person with Airline Manager dreams. Personal opinion ofc. If they succeed well done, if they go under I won't be surprised.

It makes more sense to obtain something a little smaller, but proven (e.g. 2-3 good condition, recently stored 767-300ERs if you're going widebody) & spend the money on the product/ancillary industries (catering, safety, crew training). Then you can upsize when you have guaranteed cashflow from your core routes.

 

[WestCoast]

At the moment Global reminds me of one those random holiday charter airlines that would pop up for a few seasons using second hand aircraft often leased from someone else, before the big low cost carriers took that market away. Fair play they got it off the ground but we’d need to see a lot more to consider it a serious venture.

 

[Ted633]

At the moment Global reminds me of one those random holiday charter airlines that would pop up for a few seasons using second hand aircraft often leased from someone else, before the big low cost carriers took that market away. Fair play they got it off the ground but we’d need to see a lot more to consider it a serious venture.

Apart from they are not an airline! They only own a well used A380, which is leased in HiFly to operate flights on their behalf. They are yet to even apply for an Air Operator Certificate (AOC)

 

[WestCoast]

Apart from they are not an airline! They only own a well used A380, which is leased in HiFly to operate flights on their behalf. They are yet to even apply for an Air Operator Certificate (AOC)

I am not defending Global as a model but in all fairness, that’s not been historically unusual with startups! For instance, easyJet didn‘t have an AOC for the first two years of operation their flights were operated by GB Airways (who they ended up buying in the next decade!) and Air Foyle. Another example. Emirates first flights were operated by Pakistan International on their behalf.

 

[Ted633]

I am not defending Global as a model but in all fairness, that’s not been historically unusual with startups! For instance, easyJet didn‘t have an AOC for the first two years of operation their flights were operated by GB Airways (who they ended up buying in the next decade!) and Air Foyle. Another example. Emirates first flights were operated by Pakistan International on their behalf.

Agree, but they actually had a plan! Now GA have flown these two 'proving' flights, there is no indication of what's next.
The A380 is also now due it's 12 yearly 'D' Check. Where is that money going to come from?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The A380 is also now due it's 12 yearly 'D' Check. Where is that money going to come from?

No idea where the money is coming from, but the aircraft has already positioned to the overhauls location at Dresden.

Come to think of it, it would be HiFly, as the owner, who would have to pay for this...

The 2025 edition of the airliners version of the Combined Volume shows that Global have a second A380 on order, listed as 9H-MIP which is one of the very first built, being constructor's number 006 ( for the record 9H-GLOBL is c/n 120 ).

 

[Tetchytyke]

The A380 is also now due it's 12 yearly 'D' Check. Where is that money going to come from?

It’s been in deep storage for years so it might not need its D exam yet.

But “where is the money coming from” seems the main question for everything with Global. Rumours are that the investors are Emirati. Whilst it probably is chump change to them, I still don’t quite understand what they’re getting out of it.

Come to think of it, it would be HiFly, as the owner, who would have to pay for this...

HiFly don’t own it, Global does .

 

[cactustwirly]

No idea where the money is coming from, but the aircraft has already positioned to the overhauls location at Dresden.

Come to think of it, it would be HiFly, as the owner, who would have to pay for this...

The 2025 edition of the airliners version of the Combined Volume shows that Global have a second A380 on order, listed as 9H-MIP which is one of the very first built, being constructor's number 006 ( for the record 9H-GLOBL is c/n 120 ).

I heard on another forum, 9H-MIP is ex Singapore airlines and has non-certified seats fitted so needs a new interior before it enters service

 

[TravelDream]

No idea where the money is coming from, but the aircraft has already positioned to the overhauls location at Dresden.

Come to think of it, it would be HiFly, as the owner, who would have to pay for this...

The 2025 edition of the airliners version of the Combined Volume shows that Global have a second A380 on order, listed as 9H-MIP which is one of the very first built, being constructor's number 006 ( for the record 9H-GLOBL is c/n 120 ).

9H-GLOBL is owned by Global. Hifly operate it as Global don't have an AOC, but it is owned by Global.

I heard on another forum, 9H-MIP is ex Singapore airlines and has non-certified seats fitted so needs a new interior before it enters service

Yeah, the Japanese manufacturer Koito's seats are not allowed to be used as the company falsified safety data and tests to achieve certification.
Back 15 or so years ago it caused a big scandal and lots of delays for Singapore Airlines' A380 deliveries.
The certification is obviously no longer valid.
Koito no longer make seats.

Installing a brand new cabin in an A380 is a significant cost. Even a 'cheap' install would be well into the tens of millions of pounds.

I'd say it's a non starter for a startup like Global, but the whole concept they have with A380s is a non-starter. So, who knows?!

 

[mpthomson]

Some of the teething problems seemed a bit off. I would have expected that they would have done a significant amount of training on the ground (or at least got the crews familiar with the menu.) I have in the past gone to restaurants soft launches. They tend to offer 1/2 price food on the understand that they are familiarizing themselves with the service. I doubt they would invite critics to such an session.

Maybe it isn't easy to test these things on a mock-up aircraft in a warehouse.

I suspect Richard Branson is probably glad he didn't have the vloggers back in the day he did his first virgin Atlantic flight. I am not sure if the CEO was actually on board or just at the airport. Watching the reviews, they may still be sorting these teething problems for a few flights. will the public for this on the job trianing, or just use Delta from Edinburgh? We will see.

Asquith was on board the first flight, he was interviewed by all the well known vloggers during the flight.

The consensus from some videos is that's they are HiFly cabin crew given that the poor service matches that of previous experiences.

It's a definite that they're HiFly (alongside the fact that they were all Portugese), Global haven't recruited anyone. Fundamentally this was a HiFly charter flight using Global's airframe.

It’s been in deep storage for years so it might not need its D exam yet.

But “where is the money coming from” seems the main question for everything with Global. Rumours are that the investors are Emirati. Whilst it probably is chump change to them, I still don’t quite understand what they’re getting out of it.


HiFly don’t own it, Global does .

The current information and rumour (and now widely reported in the more reliable trade press, like Aviation Week) around it is that a large Saudi investment fund (Kingdom Holdings) is preparing to take a large stake in it. Alongside this Global is allegedly going to drop its plans for scheduled services and run as an ACMI concern, using the Saudi finance for obtaining another 3 A380s.

All of which screams that its run out of cash in its current form and has a future of Hajj charter flights IF this turns out to be true.

 

[birchesgreen]

All of which screams that its run out of cash in its current form and has a future of Hajj charter flights IF this turns out to be true.

Well they won't need that funky bar anymore then.

 

[TravelDream]

All of which screams that its run out of cash in its current form and has a future of Hajj charter flights IF this turns out to be true.

That's high volume and low margin business (There are obviously wealthy people who do Hajj, but there are plenty of airlines who fly to Jeddah (nearest airport to Mecca) year-round with premium cabins. Charter airlines flying for Hajj are definitely low budget stuff).
Certainly not the premium Global say they want to offer.
Kingdom Holdings would be better off getting new A330NEOs like Cebu Pacific have in a 3-4-3 config with a small business cabin.


Reading the Aviation Week article, they essentially want to become like hifly.
The airline that currently operates their flights and the airline which got rid of A380s as they couldn't operate them profitably.
Sounds like a great idea.

 

[mpthomson]

There's never really been a sane business model for this from the start.

 

[Deepgreen]

I am amazed that it has even got anywhere near flying! I cannot understand the business model here - as others have said, one old aircraft is not enough to provide resilience, and reliability will be a vital element of this luxury brand. It's a fascinating saga.

 

[TravelDream]

Long-haul low cost I am amazed nobody has made work as I am sure there is a market there.

Yet, here in Europe/ North America, it just hasn't. Current operator Norse is hanging on by a thread as I type. And Ryanair has so much cash in the bank, I am sure O'Leary would have gone for it if he thought he could make real money,.

But this. Where is the market for it? And why on Earth would you use an A380 to try?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Long-haul low cost I am amazed nobody has made work as I am sure there is a market there.

I'm really not sure there is. I suspect Ryanair have looked into it sufficiently to determine that as they were talking about it at one point.

Very few people will be happy to take an 8 hour flight with no refreshments and a small underseat bag only. Once you add all the extras to "low cost" flights usually full-service is cheaper. Yes, some will be happy with that, but they'll be few enough in number to make it uneconomic. Just about the only way you can save is by cramming seats in a bit e.g. 3-4-3 777s and 3-3-3 787s.

The place money is made long-haul is premium classes.

 

[Brubulus]

I'm really not sure there is. I suspect Ryanair have looked into it sufficiently to determine that as they were talking about it at one point.

Very few people will be happy to take an 8 hour flight with no refreshments and a small underseat bag only. Once you add all the extras to "low cost" flights usually full-service is cheaper. Yes, some will be happy with that, but they'll be few enough in number to make it uneconomic. Just about the only way you can save is by cramming seats in a bit e.g. 3-4-3 777s and 3-3-3 787s.

The place money is made long-haul is premium classes.

Norwegian failed as a long haul low cost airline. WOW air failed . Norse Atlantic is likely to fail soon in some way, looking at their financials. Transatlantic widebody routes as a low cost carrier seem to always fail.

In Asia the business model does seem to work, with AirAsiaX, Scoot and Cebu Pacific.

I think it will definitely be possible with the lower operating costs of narrowbodies, however Primera Air failed. Narrowbody routes from the UK and Europe to tourist destinations could work, and I can see Wizz Air becoming a relatively successful long haul low cost airline using 239 seat A321 XLRs, especially when combined with 24 hour operation that is enabled by long haul flights.

Long-haul low cost I am amazed nobody has made work as I am sure there is a market there.

Yet, here in Europe/ North America, it just hasn't. Current operator Norse is hanging on by a thread as I type. And Ryanair has so much cash in the bank, I am sure O'Leary would have gone for it if he thought he could make real money,.

But this. Where is the market for it? And why on Earth would you use an A380 to try?

Ryanair is constrained by the 737, introducing any other aircraft would be an operational nightmare and the margins are just too small for it to be worth it to introduce another fleet.

LCC is always a low margin business and the increased costs of long haul make it a poor prospect when starting an airline. Global seem truly mad and will likely be dead and forgotten by the end of the year. There's a reason why the A380 has a specific use case and that is not generally as the single aircraft of a LCC.

 

[signed]

Ryanair is constrained by the 737, introducing any other aircraft would be an operational nightmare and the margins are just too small for it to be worth it to introduce another fleet.

Don't they have 787-9s on order?

 

[Bald Rick]

I think it will definitely be possible with the lower operating costs of narrowbodies, however Primera Air failed. Narrowbody routes from the UK and Europe to tourist destinations could work, and I can see Wizz Air becoming a relatively successful long haul low cost airline using 239 seat A321 XLRs, especially when combined with 24 hour operation that is enabled by long haul flights.

Agreed. Wizz seem to be making Gatwick - Jeddah work on a 6h30 flight schedule. I wonder if they are thinking of dipping their toe in the TA market, Toronto or Newark might be good places to start.

Don't they have 787-9s on order?

No, all 737s including a large MAX 10 order.

 

[AlterEgo]

Agreed. Wizz seem to be making Gatwick - Jeddah work on a 6h30 flight schedule. I wonder if they are thinking of dipping their toe in the TA market, Toronto or Newark might be good places to start.

These are really not good places to launch low cost. Aircraft utilisation is poor and the market doesn’t tolerate unsocial flight times (not to mention curfews at many US airports!). Jeddah is a different kettle of fish.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Ryanair is constrained by the 737, introducing any other aircraft would be an operational nightmare and the margins are just too small for it to be worth it to introduce another fleet.

Although their 737 Max 10 variant on order has a range of 3,600 miles, so something like Shannon to Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa would be feasible.
I don't see them going for it either, due to the economics of long haul operations and the unsuitability of their standard cabin to long haul ops, but 737s are operated across the Atlantic by some airlines (WestJet Gatwick to Halifax/St John's, ASL Airlines France from St Pierre and Miquelon to Paris), so that isn't a barrier in itself.

 

[thejuggler]

Long haul low cost doesn't work because, like taxis and restaurants, if prices are low you need to churn the customers and extract revenue.

A low cost aircraft will do 3, possibly 4 cycles a day. That's 600-1,000 passengers over 24 hours who not only buy the flight, they buy food and drink, pay various additional fees, book car parking, hotels and car hire through affiliates.

A long haul flight aircraft does one trip and price is less of an issue to those customers who may only fly long haul very occasionally.