What features should a GBR loyalty scheme have?

[Bletchleyite]

It would be very, very nice to see a single national loyalty scheme. LNER Perks I guess would be the easiest one to roll it into if the LNER site/app was to form the basis of GBR's online retail, though I think others perhaps have more attractive features than the simple 2% cash back that offers.

£1 spent = 2p returned seems a lot more understandable than Avanti's system as well (e.g. the 75-mile minimum and maximum of two qualifying journeys per day means I've split some Carlisle / Glasgow to Watford / Milton Keynes tickets at Wolverhampton or Crewe to get two which count, and I don't think Avanti's give any benefits for season ticket holders).

I think both have good features. Having tiers is a good idea too - stuff like having a few dedicated seats in the unreserved coach available for people of a specific tier (DB did that) is a nice idea (or maybe specific seats that can only be reserved by those of a higher tier, which would avoid arguments), another might be a free upgrade to First Class on a weekend for the highest tier.

Perhaps the base could be the 2% cash back, but then add tiers based on the number of qualifying itineraries purchased? (Obviously you can game that by purchasing splits separately, but most people won't be bothered to do that).

Another nice idea might be discounts of some sort (or much higher cash back, say 20%) if you're a very frequent traveller or annual season ticket holder - perhaps a kind of Gold Card replacement?

 

[FlyingPotato]

I quite like Avanti's approach but that's also because most of my 75 mile journeys were paid for with tickets less than £15 (Railcard included), but I can see why people like LNER

What I don't like is GWR's new scheme as it seems impossible to get points on unless you are doing big spends each time, you can't collect them over time, so I wouldn't support anything like that being used

 

[Bletchleyite]

I quite like Avanti's approach but that's also because most of my 75 mile journeys were paid for with tickets less than £15 (Railcard included), but I can see why people like LNER

What I don't like is GWR's new scheme as it seems impossible to get points on unless you are doing big spends each time, you can't collect them over time, so I wouldn't support anything like that being used

GWR's looks a bit complex to be honest.

What you need is some sort of balance of high spenders (particularly in First Class) getting big rewards* but also the little guy getting something rather than nothing at all. 10% off on-board food and drink is a decent one to offer for everyone who joins, and might even be revenue positive if it encourages more purchases that wouldn't be made otherwise.

* Particularly to influence prolific business travellers to choose rail over air.

 

[cactustwirly]

Just copy airlines surely

Points per £1 spent/distance travelled

Can be redeemed on specific reward seats on quieter trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just copy airlines surely

Points per £1 spent/distance travelled

Can be redeemed on specific reward seats on quieter trains

Airlines normally also have some form of tier points which get you more privileges, e.g. access to business class lounges even when travelling economy, or extra checked bags (I had both of those when I was KLM Gold years ago). While the bags one wouldn't really work possibly aside from Lumo, I think something similar to this for really prolific users is a good idea too. One I mentioned upthread is the idea of having specific seats only reservable by those with Gold tier, sort of analogous to the "RESERVED CYCLIST" ones on Avanti.

In terms of your suggestion the LNER one basically does that at 2 pence in the pound. It's simple and effective enough, and everyone can earn something.

 

[cactustwirly]

Airlines normally also have some form of tier points which get you more privileges, e.g. access to business class lounges even when travelling economy, or extra checked bags (I had both of those when I was KLM Gold years ago). While the bags one wouldn't really work possibly aside from Lumo, I think something similar to this for really prolific users is a good idea too. One I mentioned upthread is the idea of having specific seats only reservable by those with Gold tier, sort of analogous to the "RESERVED CYCLIST" ones on Avanti.

In terms of your suggestion the LNER one basically does that at 2 pence in the pound. It's simple and effective enough, and everyone can earn something.

That would be difficult to achieve in reality.
BA has a very complex system for seating allocation of seating at check-in for this purpose, you can read all about "theoretical seating"
Trains don't really have an equivalent of row 1 on an aircraft, so I'm not sure what purpose having specific seats would serve

They also have a large amount of lounge space to cater for the extra status holders, Terminal 5 has 3 Business lounges for example.

 

[FlyingPotato]

Points per mile / £, can be either and will most likely decided by the analysts

Now you can have two options:
Points = Discounts for future journeys and lounge access

Points = Used to work towards tiers like Avanti / E*

Or a combined approach

As well, have discount for signing up like %10 off and maybe get a free drink every year with more free drinks depending on rank

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would be difficult to achieve in reality.

Would it? Avanti reserve the first couple of rows on one side of coach A for cyclists, for instance.

BA has a very complex system for seating allocation of seating at check-in for this purpose, you can read all about "theoretical seating"
Trains don't really have an equivalent of row 1 on an aircraft, so I'm not sure what purpose having specific seats would serve

Being able to reserve one when the train is already fully reserved rather than having to chance it alongside everyone else during the Euston scrum. I'd agree there aren't specific desirable seats in the same way as a plane*, but on many trains having *a* seat is desirable.

* Well, there sort of are, Coach A Seat 45 is *mine* on a Pendolino. But based on how often I get that seat and given that Avanti offer seat selection, I don't think *everyone* considers it desirable, particularly northbound where it's going backwards.

 

[vuzzeho]

Cheaper First/Standard Premium upgrades? Using points to discount/pay for train tickets? Joining an airline alliance could be nice, similar to DB joining Star Alliance.

 

[signed]

As a point of reference, Trenitalia CartaFreccia works as follows :

Silver: (1000 points)
- 10% more points per trip
- Access to the lower grade of lounges (FrecciaClub, a glorified waiting room)
- 2 free upgrades to Business per year
Gold:
- All the above
- 25% more points
- Access to FrecciaLounges
- Ability to change the time of your tickets onboard without penalty
- 3 free upgrades
- Dedicated WhatsApp customer support
Platinum: (7500 points)
- All the above
- Ability to buy and change the time of your tickets onboard without penalty
- 50% more points
- 4 free upgrades
- Access to SuperFlex fares
- 1 free reward ticket
Platinum Infinite:
- All the above
- Upgrade to Gold for one family member
- 100% more points
- 5 free upgrades
- Free access to the meeting rooms and salottinos (compartments) on the train
- Unlimited (didn't catch what that entailed) reward tickets

 

[station_road]

Existing TOC schemes are designed to get people to either book and/or travel on that TOCs services instead of others (same with airline loyalty schemes). When all trains are run by the same company, why would you want to have the cost of running a loyalty scheme?

 

[swt_passenger]

If there’s only one railway, with one ticket purchase system, not in bits competing with themselves, why would it need a loyalty scheme at all?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Existing TOC schemes are designed to get people to either book and/or travel on that TOCs services instead of others (same with airline loyalty schemes). When all trains are run by the same company, why would you want to have the cost of running a loyalty scheme?

If there’s only one railway, with one ticket purchase system, not in bits competing with themselves, why would it need a loyalty scheme at all?

Because the market is "travel", not "rail travel" - the idea of on-rail competition has proven one of the greatest fallacies of privatisation. It's a means of attracting people to go by train instead of coach, air or car, or even to get them to make extra journeys they weren't making anyway.

 

[stadler]

I think any new GBR loyalty scheme should allow you to claim points for tickets purchased at ticket machines and ticket offices and onboard trains. Most of these loyalty schemes are annoyingly for online purchases only. It should be more than possible to be able upload photos of your tickets to get points added.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think any new GBR loyalty scheme should allow you to claim points for tickets purchased at ticket machines and ticket offices and onboard trains. Most of these loyalty schemes are annoyingly for online purchases only. It should be more than possible to be able upload photos of your tickets to get points added.

This will be a lot easier when all tickets have barcodes, so yes, I don't see why a GBR loyalty scheme should not do this. The LNER one etc are of course to encourage you to use their online retailer, but GBR doesn't have the same motivation.

 

[signed]

If there’s only one railway, with one ticket purchase system, not in bits competing with themselves, why would it need a loyalty scheme at all?

Because loyalty programs, when done right, make a LOT of money, money that could very well serve a single national railway.

The following is a great video explaining the theory behind it

 

[A S Leib]

The LNER one etc are of course to encourage you to use their online retailer,

The LNER one at least lets you upload (digital, or all?) tickets bought elsewhere to get points on their app, although Avanti limits it to tickets bought through their website / app.

If travel credit is a way of providing rewards, it would ideally be possible to have that and delay repay or other compensation in one account.

 

[Zomboid]

I think the nectar model is pretty good as these things go.
Credit to spend on more tickets, but also you could redeem it at a greater rate in another way. Say you earn 1 points per £ spent on tickets, which you can redeem as 1p per point on tickets, but 5p per point at the buffet (if you buy an expensive enough ticket you might get a free drink on that journey) or 3p per point at the hypothetical GBR Model Railway Shop, or find some external partners to offer points and redemption opportunities.

 

[Brubulus]

Because loyalty programs, when done right, make a LOT of money, money that could very well serve a single national railway.

The following is a great video explaining the theory behind it

I agree here - focus should be on a GBR credit card - loyalty schemes should be a purely commercial activity that enables more funding for the railway in the most efficient way possible, and for this there should be a credit card focused points scheme with points per £ spent, with more points for anytime and first class tickets and a heavy focus on credit card integration.

Tier levels with lounge access ,discounts on food and drink and extra flexibility is potentially a good idea since the railway lounges are an underutilised commercial asset.

 

[Trainlog]

If enough points were earned, maybe some free day rover tickets would be a good perk of a loyalty scheme.

 

[Mikey C]

A national loyalty scheme would be a lot easier to earn points on than the current operator only ones, so I imagine it might be quite a bit meaner!

 

[UP13]

Existing TOC schemes are designed to get people to either book and/or travel on that TOCs services instead of others (same with airline loyalty schemes). When all trains are run by the same company, why would you want to have the cost of running a loyalty scheme?

They are competing with road and to a lesser degree air travel.

I would use the train more (my wife actually prefers how less stressful the train is than driving) but with small kids I tend to drive. Driving is almost always quicker (assuming we aren't going too far away) and is more expensive.

The car will still be quicker but we'd do more by train if it was more affordable, and a loyalty scheme would help.

 

[brad465]

If it was like the loyalty card for a warehouse play centre I used as a child, it would have the following over a dozen journeys: free (insert snack), 50% off, 2 fares for the price of 1, then the final entry on the card would be a free journey. After this the cycle repeats. I suspect this would be far too generous though and would certainly have to have maximum fares applied to the discount options.

 

[Mark J]

I have just noticed this...

Rewarding Rail - Making rail miles more rewarding.

www.rewardingrail.com

However, is only for Advance tickets.

The scheme offers points based upon miles traveled.

However, the sending off of ticket info and redemption seems complicated - having to email for all interactions.

I quite like Avanti's approach but that's also because most of my 75 mile journeys were paid for with tickets less than £15 (Railcard included), but I can see why people like LNER

What I don't like is GWR's new scheme as it seems impossible to get points on unless you are doing big spends each time, you can't collect them over time, so I wouldn't support anything like that being used

If you buy over £30 of split tickets through GWR, will that still qualify, or does a ticket have to be over £30?

Is the 10% off food and drink for bronze members one off, or a code that can be used on every service traveled on with catering?

 

[FlyingPotato]

I have just noticed this...

Rewarding Rail - Making rail miles more rewarding.

www.rewardingrail.com

However, is only for Advance tickets.

The scheme offers points based upon miles traveled.

However, the sending off of ticket info and redemption seems complicated - having to email for all interactions.


If you buy over £30 of split tickets through GWR, will that still qualify, or does a ticket have to be over £30?

Is the 10% off food and drink for bronze members one off, or a code that can be used on every service traveled on with catering?

I've not yet used GWR, I move between Avanti and GWR land, and am currently in Avanti land, but I think what they say is its £30 spent over the whole day so could be multiple tickets so yes splits work I think

For the 2nd question, If it's Avanti I'm in Silver and get the odd free drink voucher which often aligns with when I travel so I don't use the discount, but I think it's not a single use code, but it may have a reset time

But I'm sure there are experts for this (I'm not), and a better thread to discuss which scheme is bette

 

[lyndhurst25]

Loyalty scheme? Alternatively, they could just make the fares cheaper in the first place.

Supermarkets seem to be moving away from loyalty points, towards discounted members’ prices. The railway could do the same with its loyalty card. You could call it something like the “National Railcard”. I’d even pay, say £30 a year, up front to be a member.

 

[Anonymous10]

GWR's looks a bit complex to be honest.

What you need is some sort of balance of high spenders (particularly in First Class) getting big rewards* but also the little guy getting something rather than nothing at all. 10% off on-board food and drink is a decent one to offer for everyone who joins, and might even be revenue positive if it encourages more purchases that wouldn't be made otherwise.

* Particularly to influence prolific business travellers to choose rail over air.

Or a greggs style offering where for every 9 hot drinks you get one free.

 

[Mark J]

Still awaiting XC's 'loyalty programme'.

Bronze tier - 50 points

- Guaranteed nose to the wall standing room only by the toilet, on long distance journeys.
- Low chance your train will arrive on time.
- +20% premium on all fares.

Silver tier - 100 points

- Guaranteed standing in the carriage ailses.
- Better than usual chance your train will arrive on time.
- +10% premium on all fares.

Gold tier - 150 point

- Nearly guaranteed seat in standard class.
- Free use of the adjacent seat for your bag*
- +5% premium on all fares.
- 'Best efforts' to ensure your train arrives on time.
- Free cup of tea - if catering on board, and the catering rep can be bothered.
- FREE use of station toilets and standard waiting facilities on platforms.

* Applicable on full and standing trains only.

1 point earned, per £150 spent in a single transaction.

Loyalty scheme? Alternatively, they could just make the fares cheaper in the first place.

Supermarkets seem to be moving away from loyalty points, towards discounted members’ prices. The railway could do the same with its loyalty card. You could call it something like the “National Railcard”. I’d even pay, say £30 a year, up front to be a member.

The whole 'Members prices', 'Clubcard prices', and 'Nectar Prices' is just a glorified con.

It has just allowed Supermarkets to raise prices, then charge the old price on a select number of products - if you hold the relevant loyalty card.

Who is to say the railways would not do the same, if they had a similar scheme in place.

If anything, the Railways need to be more like Aldi and Lidl in terms of pricing, not the loyalty schemes of the big supermarket players.

 

[miklcct]

I think both have good features. Having tiers is a good idea too - stuff like having a few dedicated seats in the unreserved coach available for people of a specific tier (DB did that) is a nice idea (or maybe specific seats that can only be reserved by those of a higher tier, which would avoid arguments), another might be a free upgrade to First Class on a weekend for the highest tier.

Perhaps the base could be the 2% cash back, but then add tiers based on the number of qualifying itineraries purchased? (Obviously you can game that by purchasing splits separately, but most people won't be bothered to do that).

Another nice idea might be discounts of some sort (or much higher cash back, say 20%) if you're a very frequent traveller or annual season ticket holder - perhaps a kind of Gold Card replacement?

Any loyalty scheme need to be based on the distance travelled, not the ticket price, for it to be useful.

For example, 1 point for each km travelled on a Standard Class ticket, 2 point for each km travelled on a First Class ticket, no matter it is an Advance, Off-Peak or Anytime. This will attract people to hunt for cheap tickets for discretionary journeys. (for tickets with multiple permitted routes, the ORCATS allocation is used to calculate an average), and a higher multiplier for season tickets to attract regular commuters (e.g. using a multiplier of 14 for a weekly ticket, or a multiplier of 730 for an annual ticket)

 

[A S Leib]

This will attract people to hunt for cheap tickets for discretionary journeys

Club Avanti's distance-based and I think the main effect is that it's much easier to get qualifying journeys if starting from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Carlisle or Preston than from anywhere south of Birmingham. That might be less of an issue with a system based on points rather than full journeys.