Does Bournemouth Airport need better public transport provision?

[PTR 444]

The link to the petition is here:

Welcome to BCP Council | BCP

This has just been reported on tonight’s South Today bulletin, which I am currently watching. Let’s hope that this gives it some traction.

 

[Dougal2345]

The link to the petition is here: (removed)
This has just been reported on tonight’s South Today bulletin, which I am currently watching. Let’s hope that this gives it some traction.

Many of us hope the opposite. I certainly don't want my Council Tax funding a service to make it easier for people to fly abroad at enormous environmental cost, and spend their money overseas rather than locally.

'Plane travel has enough tax breaks as it is. If people want to fly from Bournemouth airport, I suspect they can afford to pay for a taxi to get there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

funding a service to make it easier for people to fly abroad at enormous environmental cost, and spend their money overseas rather than locally.

Oh for goodness’ sake

 

[PTR 444]

Many of us hope the opposite. I certainly don't want my Council Tax funding a service to make it easier for people to fly abroad at enormous environmental cost, and spend their money overseas rather than locally.

'Plane travel has enough tax breaks as it is. If people want to fly from Bournemouth airport, I suspect they can afford to pay for a taxi to get there.

Maybe a bus service might encourage more people to fly into Bournemouth rather than out of it. Yes that’s still a significant environmental cost but at least arrivals would be boosting Bournemouth’s economy rather than draining it.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Almost all these flights are "bucket and spade". likely to be used predominantly by people living nearby or in the wider region, travelling in family groups with plenty of luggage. Many of them are probably also early morning departures or late evening arrivals. All these factors mean that few airport passengers are going to find public transport access suitable. The airport demographics that might do so are incoming visitors (no car available), some business travellers (often travelling alone, less luggage) and those going on shorter "city breaks" (more couples than families, less luggage), but it's hard to see many of those using that set of flights. Also the airport isn't located somewhere a route predominantly serving a more popular destination can call on the way.

So it's going to be difficult to make airport public transport viable, as evidenced by the fact no commercial bus company has apparently managed to do so. East Midlands is an example of a smaller airport with a similar demographic and a reasonable bus service, but this has been subsidised and the airport had about three times more passengers in 2023 as well as probably much more employment clustered around it.

Some may not want to hear this, but a sensible national airport strategy would probably close Bournemouth airport and develop Southampton as the regional gateway, having a rail service and potentially more "critical mass" for public transport if more flights were concentrated there.

Yes I’ve thought that too. Or even open the Heathrow Southern Railway and connect Dorset and Hampshire with Heathrow.

I came up with a high speed rail conceptual system last year that would see an extension of HS1 domestic services through Euston to Heathrow, then down to the SWML with exactly this reasoning in mind.

 

[Mark J]

Was there ever a rail line that used to run near to the site of Bournemouth Airport?

 

[cactustwirly]

Many of us hope the opposite. I certainly don't want my Council Tax funding a service to make it easier for people to fly abroad at enormous environmental cost, and spend their money overseas rather than locally.

'Plane travel has enough tax breaks as it is. If people want to fly from Bournemouth airport, I suspect they can afford to pay for a taxi to get there.

Very flawed logic, have you not heard of Air Passenger Duty? That's a large proportion of most fares? Have you not thought about the economic benefits that the airport brings to the local economy, with the jobs it provides etc and access to international trade for local businesses

Surely it's more environmentally friendly for people to use local airports rather than drive to Heathrow and Gatwick?

 

[Dougal2345]

Was there ever a rail line that used to run near to the site of Bournemouth Airport?

I did go into that a bit earlier in the thread:

Having said that, as we're in the Speculative area, we could consider re-opening the railway to Hurn, and its station, a bracing 1.5 mile stroll from the airport. In the past there have been seemingly serious proposals to reopen the Brockenhurst to Ringwood line - that could be extended to Hurn, or linked all the way through to Christchurch

 

[Mark J]

I did go into that a bit earlier in the thread:

So surely that would be the ideal option then, along with the long mooted reopening proposals to Ringwood.

 

[d70g]

I do find it rather bizarre that folk are advocating a Ringwood > Bmth Airport/Hurn > Bournemouth rail reinstatement, considering the limited traffic this would generate, plus the rail corridor having been built on before the junction with the west-facing SWML in Christchurch.

 

[William3000]

Far fetched this may sound, a sort of automated monorail system to the station suspended above the A338, I'm thinking of New York's JFK AirTrain thus with lower cost Luton DART like fleet.

No driver to employ, can run at quieter less in demand timings, no getting stuck in traffic, less expense of digging up to lay rail track, quicker to get into service.

More chance this happening with Leeds-Bradford or Doncaster to their larger population size than Bournemouth.

The Bournemouth/Poole conurbation is much bigger than Doncaster.

 

[Zomboid]

If you basically can't get to an airport by bus, then it has inadequate public transport provision.

And if an airport as busy as Glasgow apparently can't justify a rail link, then a small regional one like Bournemouth certainly won't.

Get the airport onto a useful bus service first.

 

[Dougal2345]

If you basically can't get to an airport by bus, then it has inadequate public transport provision.

Get the airport onto a useful bus service first.

But who's going to pay? Why should the council subsidise a bus service to assist a private sector enterprise like the airport?

I feel sure the airport could afford to stump up for a minibus service once every 2 hours between it and, say, Bournemouth Travel Interchange. And if it can't, why should the public?

The 30-minute frequency service asked for in the petition is ridiculous.

Surely it's more environmentally friendly for people to use local airports rather than drive to Heathrow and Gatwick?

Probably not, actually - it would likely be more environmentally friendly if people drove all the way to their destinations, rather than took the 'plane.

So if they have to drive some of the way there, eg Heathrow/Gatwick, there's likely a net reduction in pollution.

 

[Zomboid]

But who's going to pay? Why should the council subsidise a bus service to assist a private sector enterprise like the airport

When did I say the council should pay?

If nobody can make a profit from running a bus to an airport then that's how we end up in this kind of situation, but I can't see how it helps the airport to be inaccessible to anything other than cars.

But if a bus to the airport can't make a profit then the idea of a train being viable is pretty laughable.

 

[Alfonso]

There is mention of both bus and highway improvement in the section 106 planning agreement and a transport forum. I presume that it was renegotiated at some point, possibly during covid.

 

[Topological]

Airports serve many different markets. Some are clearly beneficial for attracting inbound passengers, whilst some are designed entirely around outbound travel. Some outbound destinations do support local entrepreneurs in expanding their business opportunities, but others are dominated by holidaymakers.

To push all traffic to Heathrow is to do a major disservice to the regions. However, that does not mean having multiple small airports in each region either.

A bigger regional offering that leveraged Southampton and Bournemouth would appear to make more sense. Then the question would be about connectivity there. Reaching Bournemouth on a regular connection from Southampton (assuming that is the choice) would be much more sensible and not too unattractive.

The danger is you end up with a situation like we have with Swansea*, Cardiff, Bristol and Exeter, where none of the airports are able to command the full range of flights and there are 4* sets of NIMBY issues.

* Swansea no longer operates commercial flights, but did have a brief flirtation with reopening for an Exeter flight 2 years ago. I include Swansea because it has a similar population to Bournemouth and the areas are arguably similar also. Swansea at 240k is bigger than Bournemouth at 196k, but then Bournemouth, Poole and Christchurch is ~400k. The Bournemouth postcode has ~500k and the Swansea postcode has ~700k. (All statistics via Census 2021 and other estimates vary around these approximate numbers). The similarities of Swansea/Cardiff and Bournemouth/Southampton appear reasonable to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I feel sure the airport could afford to stump up for a minibus service once every 2 hours between it and, say, Bournemouth Travel Interchange. And if it can't, why should the public?

Airports traditionally did do stuff like that, but then along came low-cost airlines who insist on effective subsidies to serve airports rather than being able to charge landing/handling fees that actually cover the costs of airport service provision, and we end up here (and with other ludicrous stuff like charging a fiver for the Luton people mover when it'd be free at a traditional airport like it is at Birmingham and Gatwick).

 

[edwin_m]

I feel sure the airport could afford to stump up for a minibus service once every 2 hours between it and, say, Bournemouth Travel Interchange. And if it can't, why should the public?

The 30-minute frequency service asked for in the petition is ridiculous.

That illustrates another problem with buses to smaller airports. If the service is infrequent air passengers won't want to use it, because nobody wants to hang around for an hour or more to make a 20-minute journey if they just miss one when they get through arrivals. So unless there is the demand to sustain that sort of frequency, then it's difficult to do anything beyond providing for workers at shift change times.

 

[AlastairFraser]

So surely that would be the ideal option then, along with the long mooted reopening proposals to Ringwood.

Not necessarily. The airport wouldn't really justify a rail station on its own at the moment, due to low passenger numbers, and it's a bit of a trek from the old trackbed to the airport.

A parkway station on the site of the old Hurn station with a shuttle to the airport would be a decent idea IF it had direct access to the A338 to attract traffic from West Moors/Ashley Heath/St Ives, but Ringwood to Bournemouth alone probably wouldn't be busy enough to make it a priority for reopening.

Reopening the older Castleman's Corkscrew and using part of the existing main line as a tram-train loop (Brockenhurst - Ringwood - Ashley Heath - West Moors - parkway for Ferndown - Canford Bottom - Wimborne - Merley - Broadstone - Creekmoor - Poole - Parkstone - Branksome - Bournemouth centre - Bournemouth station - Pokesdown - Christchurch - Hinton Admiral - New Milton - Sway - Brockenhurst) would probably be a better target for investment in that area as it would serve far more people.

 

[AlterEgo]

Probably not, actually - it would likely be more environmentally friendly if people drove all the way to their destinations, rather than took the 'plane.

So if they have to drive some of the way there, eg Heathrow/Gatwick, there's likely a net reduction in pollution.

How do you work that out? Most of the destinations served by Bournemouth Airport are either not served directly by Heathrow or Gatwick, or are closer, and involve less flying than doing so from London.

 

[Dougal2345]

How do you work that out? Most of the destinations served by Bournemouth Airport are either not served directly by Heathrow or Gatwick, or are closer, and involve less flying than doing so from London.

I Googled "Bournemouth Airport Destinations" and much (not all) of what came up seemed to be roughly due East or South East of Bournemouth - Krakow, Geneva, Venice, Crete etc., so Southampton, Gatwick and Heathrow are all vaguely on the way...

But the crucial point is that a 100 mile drive to another airport will cause a minuscule amount of pollution when compared to several hundred miles on a 'plane... and of course if the train or coach is taken to Southampton/Gatwick/Heathrow, even less. And larger 'planes from Gatwick and Heathrow may be more efficient than smaller ones from smaller airports...

 

[AlterEgo]

I Googled "Bournemouth Airport Destinations" and much (not all) of what came up seemed to be roughly due East or South East of Bournemouth - Krakow, Geneva, Venice, Crete etc., so Southampton, Gatwick and Heathrow are all vaguely on the way...

Nearly all of Bournemouth’s destinations are closer in great circle terms from Bournemouth than they are from Gatwick or Heathrow. (Or Southampton, in many cases). Bournemouth principally serves summer sun destinations by movements.

Smaller airports usually have fewer restrictions on their airspace, with little to no holding required and a larger proportion of the flight spent at or near to cruise, the most efficient way to fly. Just twice around one of the Heathrow or Gatwick holds eats up about ten minutes and 40-50 miles at horribly inefficient fuel burn rates.

A typical Palma Mallorca to Bournemouth flight: https://fr24.com/data/flights/by6403#3a8ccb8a

Typical Palma flight arriving into Heathrow: https://fr24.com/data/flights/ba497#3a8d1b93

On those flights, the PMI-BOH took 25 minutes to go from cruise to wheels down, and the PMI-LHR 45 minutes. That’s a lot of additional pollution in addition to the longer flight distance.

I just picked the most recent PMI flights and no surprises there. I did so as it’s the top destination from Bournemouth. (All of these routes are closer from BOH than any of the London or Southampton airports, in fact you need to get to number 8 on the wiki table to find a route which is further):

Rank	Airport	Total passengers	Change 2023 / 24
1	Palma de Mallorca	137,601​	4.5%
2	Alicante	102,326​	17.0%
3	Málaga	95,285​	16.9%

But the crucial point is that a 100 mile drive to another airport will cause a minuscule amount of pollution when compared to several hundred miles on a 'plane...

But flights from Bournemouth to the destinations they serve are less lengthy than they are from London. You’d be better off telling people to drive from London to Bournemouth to save 60 miles of aviation fuel plus any additional holding.

and of course if the train or coach is taken to Southampton/Gatwick/Heathrow, even less. And larger 'planes from Gatwick and Heathrow may be more efficient than smaller ones from smaller airports...

Which large planes are you envisaging serving Krakow and Venice and Geneva and all the other short haul destinations? These are all served with A320 or 737 family aircraft.

Bournemouth attracts lower cost base competitors with a lower carbon footprint per passenger as they don’t usually carry cargo, have more passengers per plane taking less luggage, and usually operate very new aircraft.

 

[Dougal2345]

Nearly all of Bournemouth’s destinations are closer in great circle terms from Bournemouth than they are from Gatwick or Heathrow. (Or Southampton, in many cases). Bournemouth principally serves summer sun destinations by movements.

Well I think you've picked up on a throwaway remark I made, qualified with 'likely', and analysed it to death there.

Although perhaps the more important point was the one below (also qualified with a 'likely'):

Probably not, actually - it would likely be more environmentally friendly if people drove all the way to their destinations, rather than took the 'plane.

 

[WibbleWobble]

I covered a lot of this in post #8 (and apologies for repeating anyone else), but look at it this way:

Most flights serving Bournemouth are holiday charter flights, with a smattering of scheduled flights mainly operated by Ryanair. As such, these flights only run once or twice a week, and flight times vary by day. Naturally, the holiday flights will vary by season, but most will not run over the winter.

To operate a regular, frequent bus service will not be commercially viable because a particular trip may only be busy one day of the week (and possibly be a fresh-air express for the entire winter). We're not talking about Heathrow, Gatwick or Manchester where there's flights taking off or landing every few minutes. Even Bristol has over 10 times the passenger count of Bournemouth.

Arrivals are harder to judge because of flight delays - a flight could be on time one week, and six hours late the next. Again, a bus could be busy one day, but carry nobody the next because the flight is suffering a five hour delay. This is much harder with later arrivals, as Bournemouth's runway closes overnight, so anything landing after 21:30 gets diverted (unless they can get air traffic control to stay later), usually to Gatwick or even Birmingham.

As the airport is much smaller, there's a smaller staffing level, so again that affects any potential passenger levels. The existing service 737 is geared more towards the neighbouring business park - buses cater for shift times there as there is a much larger worker count there (even Amazon had a depot there until they moved to a larger site in Poole). The old A1 was an airport contract, the 737 being introduced by Yellows on a much pared-back timetable after the funding was pulled (why pay for a bus service when those passengers could come by car or taxi, so the airport gets more money from drop-off fees?). It is also why the 737 was sent via the suburbs - benefits more of those workers at the business park.

As for trams, momorails and whatever, if a bus service couldn't pay, then there is no chance any other mode of transport would do better! Not on the low number of flights Bournemouth sees each day. There would need to be a substantial increase in flights (and passengers willing to travel to the airport) to make a more frequent bus service pay. Southampton's proximity means load is split (and that airport has the advantage of a railway station). Additionally, Heathrow is only 90 minutes away, Gatwick and Bristol a further 30 minutes each - the concentration of airports in the south is also disadvantageous for a small airport.

Admittedly, there are plans to extend the terminal building to cater for Jet2's schedule - that could release Section 106 funding that would pay for a bus service (as the owners would have to use that on external infrastructure improvements!).

 

[supervc-10]

And having driven many, many times to Northern Spain, from the catchment area of Bournemouth airport, I can say safely that it is deeply unpleasant, takes forever, and I am very glad that my mother's fear of flying has now abated enough to allow her to do that same route on a Ryanair 737 to Girona. From Bournemouth, most of the time (Bristol is also convenient for them). My parents will typically get someone to give them a lift to the airport - usually whichever one of us siblings they've roped into looking after their dogs!

The cat is out of the bag, and the British public are not going to be giving up their holidays in the Med for Bournemouth beach, Skegness, or Blackpool any time soon.

The only public transport option the airport could reasonably expect would be a subsidised bus, and given that there isn't one, I doubt the airport will bring one in. The only way it could happen would be to have the council require it as part of conditions for expansion.

 

[Mike Machin]

Unlike most other airports, relatively few people using Bournemouth airport are ‘travellers’ in the true sense of the word.

Virtually none are using the airport for business flights and very few are using it for ‘friends and family’ visits. A small number are on city breaks and for some of them perhaps, better public transport links would potentially be an advantage.

But, the vast majority are holidaymakers, many on inclusive holiday packages and with their families together with a week or two’s worth of luggage.

With Bournemouth primarily a ‘sun route and bucket and spade’ airport, an occasional bus and a reliable taxi service will probably suffice.

 

[Dougal2345]

And having driven many, many times to Northern Spain, from the catchment area of Bournemouth airport, I can say safely that it is deeply unpleasant, takes forever, and I am very glad that my mother's fear of flying has now abated enough to allow her to do that same route on a Ryanair 737 to Girona.

Off-topic question, but wouldn't the ferry have been a better alternative to driving..?

 

[WibbleWobble]

Off-topic question, but wouldn't the ferry have been a better alternative to driving..?

Cost is astronomical! Even the shorter Channel crossing to Northern France is three times as much as using Dover and stopping over in a cheap hotel!

 

[fandroid]

As I understand it, BCP is looking to join with Dorset and Wiltshire in the race to get a regional mayor. Then transport , including that region's only commercial airport, is likely to get a rather more strategic focus.

It has always struck me that a big opportunity was lost in not protecting the routes of the old Castleman's Corkscrew and other local closed lines. The south Dorset area historically developed around those routes but has mostly lost the opportunity to improve public transport by reusing them in some way.

 

[PTR 444]

As I understand it, BCP is looking to join with Dorset and Wiltshire in the race to get a regional mayor. Then transport , including that region's only commercial airport, is likely to get a rather more strategic focus.

It has always struck me that a big opportunity was lost in not protecting the routes of the old Castleman's Corkscrew and other local closed lines. The south Dorset area historically developed around those routes but has mostly lost the opportunity to improve public transport by reusing them in some way.

Doesn’t the proposed Heart of Wessex authority cover Somerset as well, in which Bristol Airport would also be included?