GPS-based PAYG trials on EMR / Northern

[Edvid]

Your chance to try simpler train tickets in Yorkshire and the East Midlands this September

Up to 4,000 rail passengers can take part in each route of the pay-as-you-go ticketing trials.

www.gov.uk

From today (6 June 2025), thousands of passengers across the north and East Midlands will have a chance to volunteer to take part in a new digital ticketing trial.

Backed by government funding, the trials will use GPS-based technology to track train journeys, ensuring passengers pay the best fare for the journey they take.

Digital ticketing builds on the government’s plans to overhaul the railways to make them simpler, more flexible and passenger-focused. Ahead of the creation of Great British Railways, the government continues to work to deliver positive changes like this for passengers – attracting more people back onto our trains, boosting the economy and delivering on the government’s Plan for Change.

The trials being operated by East Midlands Railway (EMR) and Northern Trains will run along these routes:

• Leicester to Derby to Nottingham
• Harrogate to Leeds
• Sheffield to Doncaster
• Sheffield to Barnsley

Rail Minister, Lord Peter Hendy, said:

Contactless ticketing is making journeys easier to navigate for millions of passengers and now our digital trials are actively recruiting volunteers to help expand this technology across Yorkshire and the East Midlands. Simplifying ticketing is a major part of our plans to overhaul the railways. I encourage anyone who regularly gets the train along these routes to get involved and help us build a ticketing system that delivers a better experience for passengers and communities across the country.

Unlike the previous rollout of pay-as-you-go, which uses contactless payment at barriers, these trials will use GPS-based technology to track people’s location throughout their train journey.

Up to 1,000 passengers will be able to take part in each route of the trials, meaning 4,000 passengers in total. The first trial to get underway will be on EMR between Leicester, Derby and Nottingham, kicking off at the beginning of September. The other routes, operated by Northern, will begin between September and November, with each running for 9 months from the start date.

Anyone interested in taking part should check EMR and Northern Trains’ websites, where a recruitment campaign has been launched.

Alex Hornby, Commercial and Customer Director, Northern Trains, said:

These trials mark an important step forward in simplifying rail travel and making the experience as frictionless as possible for our customers. By trialling pay-as-you-go technology on some of our routes, we’re helping to shape a future where hopping on a train is as easy as checking in and out. We will now be reaching out to regular customers on those routes to see if they would be willing to participate in these trials later this year. We’re excited to see how they respond and look forward to playing our part in modernising how people travel by rail in the north.

These trials are expected to build on the success of the rollout of contactless ticketing at 53 stations across the south east. Since its introduction, more than 2 million entries and exits have been made using contactless cards or mobile devices, averaging around 140,000 a week – showing how popular the system is with customers using those stations already.

The department is also working closely with Greater Manchester and the West Midlands to develop their proposals for rolling out contactless ticketing even further.

Jenna Cowie, Interim Commercial Director at East Midlands Railway, said:

We’re excited to be part of a project that aims to improve the way people travel and it is a great opportunity for our customers in Derby, Nottingham and Leicester to be among the very first in the country to experience a new, smarter way to buy train tickets. This trial is all about making train travel easier, faster and more intuitive. No more fare confusion – just check in and out with your phone and travel knowing you’ll automatically pay the best-value fare for your journey.

Those interested in participating can access the links below:

Pay As You Go Trial | EMR

Experience the Future of Rail Travel We're looking for volunteers to be among the first to try our new digital pay as you go ticketing system.Experience digital pay as you go on select routes between:

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Digital pay as you go trials

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

[Mods, feel free to move this post into https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gps-based-fare-calculation-and-split-ticketing.282328/ ]

 

[dmncf]

I wonder if it will use the same software as ScotRail Tap & Pay?

Tap & Pay

We're trialling a new convenient way to travel with a dedicated mobile app.

www.scotrail.co.uk

(link to ScotRail webpage describing Tap & Pay)

 

[sheff1]

How would "best fare for the journey" work bewteen Sheffield and Doncaster where services are operated by TPE and XC as well as Northern ? Do participants have to let the first train go and catch a later one, which may be an all stations stopper ?

No mention there of Railcard or SY Concession Pass holders being catered for.

 

[Kilopylae]

I can't for the life of me figure out what they're envisioning. Do you still need to tap in and out? If so, what's the GPS for? If not, how do they propose people get past the barriers?

It's also plainly lying when it says it will give the best priced ticket, as it won't offer splits (or at the very best, it will calculate them with Trainline's janky engine).

 

[JonathanH]

Do you still need to tap in and out? If so, what's the GPS for?

The use of GPS would appear to ensure that people don't go "off route", or if they do, are charged the appropriate fare for doing so. It would be a way of extending a tap in / tap out system over a wider area.

 

[cool110]

No mention there of Railcard or SY Concession Pass holders being catered for.

The EMR sign up form asks which Railcards you have, so I would guess they're planning to have them at some point.

 

[bluenoxid]

The interesting bit is when there’s a rail replacement bus or someone travels on a road parallel to the railway.

 

[LowLevel]

It'll be interesting to see how it works - the EMR one I know has been in development for literally years, I happened to bump into a manager testing an early version on their journeys to and from work what must have been 18 months to 2 years ago.

 

[Starmill]

You just know it's going to be havoc when trains are diverted, phones are left behind in bags by mistake, GPS glitches, people turn their phones or location off to conserve battery, etc etc. Classical "en****tification" to fix what isn't broken with something that will inevitably break frequently.

Fairtiq solves all of those problems by using Bluetooth on the train in addition to GPS.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

The use of GPS would appear to ensure that people don't go "off route", or if they do, are charged the appropriate fare for doing so. It would be a way of extending a tap in / tap out system over a wider area.

Fairtiq doesn't require any tapping in or out, which is a lot easier. You literally just swipe to start and stop your journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2025 ==

The interesting bit is when there’s a rail replacement bus or someone travels on a road parallel to the railway.

You wouldn't be charged if you don't begin a journey.

 

[Haywain]

It's also plainly lying when it says it will give the best priced ticket, as it won't offer splits

It says best fare, not best fares. In the same way as GTR's KeyGo it won't do split tickets, but if it's using a similar back office it will do break of journey.

 

[redreni]

The use of GPS would appear to ensure that people don't go "off route", or if they do, are charged the appropriate fare for doing so. It would be a way of extending a tap in / tap out system over a wider area.

Not being constrained by the routeing guide (and thus being able to do things like Paddington to Twyford or Maidenhead via Reading if it's quicker) is one of the advantages of PAYG for passengers. Nice to see the railway doing it's best to negate it!

 

[sheff1]

I can't for the life of me figure out what they're envisioning. Do you still need to tap in and out? If so, what's the GPS for? If not, how do they propose people get past the barriers?

No barriers in South Yorkshire, so at least that question doesn’t apply here.

It says best fare, not best fares.

The best fare between Sheffield and Doncaster is often the Offpeak day return. So, as above, I wonder how it will work when only 1 of the 3 operators on the route is included in the trial ?

 

[ivorytoast28]

It sounds all nice, fancy and modern but what purpose does it serve or who does it improve anything for?

Is it for rail operators to stop people taking routes their ticket doesn't allow? Can't believe that's a particularly high percentage of ticket irregularities to begin with and someone looking to do it just wouldn't use this method unless the plan is to remove all other ticketing methods

Is it to remove the need for ticket gate tap ins? Then they'd need to force everyone to use it and I'd argue signing up for apps on your phone, connecting etc is far more cumbersome than just tapping a card on a gate anyway

Or is it to give passengers the best fare? Isn't that what tfl already do with tapping. Isn't that what the aim should be for ticket retailers anyway

 

[redreni]

Or is it to give passengers the best fare? Isn't that what tfl already do with tapping.

No.

 

[cool110]

Is it for rail operators to stop people taking routes their ticket doesn't allow? Can't believe that's a particularly high percentage of ticket irregularities to begin with and someone looking to do it just wouldn't use this method unless the plan is to remove all other ticketing methods
...
Or is it to give passengers the best fare? Isn't that what tfl already do with tapping. Isn't that what the aim should be for ticket retailers anyway

The missing link is combining parts of those together, where you can have different routes with different fares. Any tap based system needs something like the pink readers and/or OSIs to distinguish between them, the former of which depends entirely on the cheaper route being the one requiring a change. That works well enough in London where the direct route is via zone 1 and changes are needed to avoid it, but falls apart elsewhere where the direct route is cheaper or even both routes can be direct.

For example Blackpool - York has via Burnley fares that are intended for Northern's direct service, while the Any Permitted is set by TPE on the assumption of going via Manchester.

 

[Kilopylae]

The best fare between Sheffield and Doncaster is often the Offpeak day return. So, as above, I wonder how it will work when only 1 of the 3 operators on the route is included in the trial ?

If it has live train running data it could try to cross-reference that with the GPS to infer which train you're on. (Not that this wouldn't be chaos when things went wrong!)

 

[Haywain]

I wonder how it will work when only 1 of the 3 operators on the route is included in the trial ?

Where does it say that only one is included in the trial? It says it will be operated by Northern, but doesn't say it will exclude other operator's services. In the same way, the EMR trial area appears to include XC services.

 

[sheff1]

Where does it say that only one is included in the trial?

That’s the way I read it as the other operators were not mentioned. If it does include all operators then fair enough.

 

[redreni]

That’s the way I read it as the other operators were not mentioned. If it does include all operators then fair enough.

PAYG and TOC restrictions don't mix, I wouldn't have thought. The system in London where TfL runs the PAYG scheme but the non-TfL TOCs participate seems to work fine. With a TOC-run pilot, I would expect PAYG to be available on all routes within that TOC's network, including on other operators' services, unless otherwise stated.

 

[jayah]

I can't for the life of me figure out what they're envisioning. Do you still need to tap in and out? If so, what's the GPS for? If not, how do they propose people get past the barriers?

They have this in Switzerland. You open an account in their App and link it to a bank account.

When you want to travel you tell the app you are starting your journey. From GPS it figures out where you are and generates and barcode to show as required on route. When you are at your destination you close the journey.

No tapping, no gatelines and no expensive hardware or infrastructure required. All the principles of daily / weekly capping can apply, as well as linking to any railcards you might have, which is a big weakness of Contactless.

 

[Russel]

EMR Sign up site doesn't work, I've messaged EMR to let them know and they say they are aware of the issue and are working on resolving it...

Great start

 

[Autoticketgate]

I wonder if it will use the same software as ScotRail Tap & Pay?

Tap & Pay

We're trialling a new convenient way to travel with a dedicated mobile app.

www.scotrail.co.uk

(link to ScotRail webpage describing Tap & Pay)

No - I was doing some unrelated Googling and stumbled upon the fact that Trainline have won this contract, one of four. They've been oddly quiet about it, I found out about it from a bunch of "parroting investor relations announcements" sites, the source seems to be here (via this page)

Trainline plc (the "Company") is pleased to announce that it has been selected by Rail Delivery Group (RDG), following a competitive tender process, as a technology supplier to support one of four digital pay-as-you-go (DPAYG) trials. The DPAYG trials will run across the Northern Rail and East Midlands Railway (EMR) networks, commencing between September and November, with each running for nine months from their respective start date.

The DPAYG trials represent a strategic opportunity for Trainline to demonstrate the benefits of its in-app solution in a live environment - ahead of DPAYG's potential rollout to cities and regions around the UK - as well as to support the UK Government's broader rail reform programme.

The Company notes that while it has been selected as a preferred bidder, formal contract documentation has not yet been executed. A further announcement will be made upon formal contract signing.

Here's the tender award and tender notice - the other winners are Tracsis (owners of iBlocks who operate the Scotrail system), ECR/Hopon and Fairtiq.
No obvious info on when/where the other trials will be other than "2025 and 2026" and "urban geographical areas without existing or planned contactless card or smartcard-based PAYG schemes"

 

[redreni]

I'm unsure why DfT would want RDG and the legacy privatised TOCs doing anything at all other than tucking over until their contracts expire?

I would personally prefer it if PAYG schemes would follow the TfL model, i.e. be run by the PTEs within areas reflective of the democratic structure of local and regional government, rather than TOCs' perceived 'patches'.

It is interesting that they want to replace tapping in and out on physical readers at stations with app-based check-ins verified with GPS surveillance. While I do not trust transport operators with the data they already have (which they have, so far, allowed teenagers to hack into and have also misused spuriously to deny me delay repay compensation), I wonder if this might create splitting opportunities without leaving the train?

E.g. train pulls into station, user checks in or out and switches to/from another ticket (e.g. a season ticket), user can continue their journey on the same train. Currently if you want to do splits involving PAYG, you invariably have to step back a train because of the requirement to tap in or out at the barrier or validator post.

I'm sure we can trust them not to use the GPS data they get from the app to detect that the passenger checked out but remained on the train, and not to then start harassing the passenger without checking if they held another ticket for their onward travel.

 

[Haywain]

I'm unsure why DfT would want RDG and the legacy privatised TOCs doing anything at all other than tucking over until their contracts expire?

Because there is a recognition that the world doesn't stand still waiting for parliamentary legislation to be enacted?

I would personally prefer it if PAYG schemes would follow the TfL model,

The TfL model isn't perfect, therefore it is appropriate to look at other potential schemes and a trial is the right way of doing that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TfL model isn't perfect, therefore it is appropriate to look at other potential schemes and a trial is the right way of doing that.

And travel areas don't always follow local Government boundaries. Not including Ormskirk in a Merseyrail PAYG scheme would for example be nuts, similarly not including Hadfield/Glossop in a Manchester one. And Oval couldn't exist under @redreni's approach, not to mention that a rail PAYG scheme that only worked within the Milton Keynes unitary (or even Bucks as a whole) would be a bit useless.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I believe it's Trainline providing this, and that a special 12 month Rover ticket has been set up so that a barcode can be used to get through gates, on-board scans etc.

(Also interestingly means Trainline have developed ranger/rover functionality in their app).

Look for EMR PAYG ZONE 1

Originally it was going to be the Worksop-Nottingham and Nottingham to Grantham line, but seems to have changed.

 

[redreni]

Because there is a recognition that the world doesn't stand still waiting for parliamentary legislation to be enacted?

Sure, but why not do this pilot in areas where the principal TOC has already been nationalised?

As for the boundaries, they have to be somewhere and they're always going to be arbitrary and upsetting to some people to a degree. I just think having democratic oversight of fares and PAYG schemes is good, so I would make the boundaries align with elected mayors' areas. I would also like to see PAYG schemes that support multi-modal journeys and fare capping: the best RDG's members have done with this is probably GTR capping bus fares on KeyGO at the PlusBus rate if a qualifying rail journey was made on the same day, but that only works in some areas and I can't help thinking having a city region or a metro area in charge would be a better bet. Several of my friends in London live a bus ride from their nearest train or tube station and the fact they get the bus fares thrown in with the applicable daily or weekly cap makes a real difference to them - the rest of the country should benefit from this too.

Hopefully elected mayors' areas align somewhat sensibly with where there are high capacity, frequent, turn-up-and-go rail services, and if not, that is a matter those mayors should be aiming to sort out (or the administrative and electoral boundaries are wrong, which is entirely possible). If areas border each other and want to make their PAYG schemes interoperable and offer through fares, great.

 

[Haywain]

Sure, but why not do this pilot in areas where the principal TOC has already been nationalised?

Err, like Northern? And it may be that the TOCs had already done work on such schemes. so bringing them to the trial stage was relatively easy.

 

[35B]

Sure, but why not do this pilot in areas where the principal TOC has already been nationalised?

As for the boundaries, they have to be somewhere and they're always going to be arbitrary and upsetting to some people to a degree. I just think having democratic oversight of fares and PAYG schemes is good, so I would make the boundaries align with elected mayors' areas. I would also like to see PAYG schemes that support multi-modal journeys and fare capping: the best RDG's members have done with this is probably GTR capping bus fares on KeyGO at the PlusBus rate if a qualifying rail journey was made on the same day, but that only works in some areas and I can't help thinking having a city region or a metro area in charge would be a better bet. Several of my friends in London live a bus ride from their nearest train or tube station and the fact they get the bus fares thrown in with the applicable daily or weekly cap makes a real difference to them - the rest of the country should benefit from this too.

Hopefully elected mayors' areas align somewhat sensibly with where there are high capacity, frequent, turn-up-and-go rail services, and if not, that is a matter those mayors should be aiming to sort out (or the administrative and electoral boundaries are wrong, which is entirely possible). If areas border each other and want to make their PAYG schemes interoperable and offer through fares, great.

I presume you'd be in favour of removing Oyster/PAYG from those parts of TfL that are outside of the Mayor's responsibility then? The shape of the network (which isn't the same as TOC boundaries) seems a reasonable starting point.

 

[redreni]

I presume you'd be in favour of removing Oyster/PAYG from those parts of TfL that are outside of the Mayor's responsibility then? The shape of the network (which isn't the same as TOC boundaries) seems a reasonable starting point.

I think that ship's sailed. I do think it was significantly easier for people to know how far they could travel using PAYG when, as a rule, PAYG validity on non-TfL trains ended at zone 6. The further it is extended, the less likely it becomes that a PAYG system that can't accommodate Railcards or splits is giving people reasonable value for money. And I do think it's unfortunate that people who rely on TfL services and pay some of the highest fares don't get to vote in Mayoral elections.