'Big man' vs Sam Main incident (final decision: no charges for either)

[ANorthernGuard]

I'm not sure what's gained by continuing this discussion. We're covering the same ground again and again and again. It's clear nobody is going to change their mind on this.

Carrot and Stick....Carrot and Stick

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If you can show me where I've discounted the opposing opinion to mine and said that my opinion is the only one that is correct I'll agree with you.

You're doing exactly that by arguing your point. Unless you are saying that you think your opinion isn't correct?

 

[Chapeltom]

Maybe in lala land. If someone says "Do you want him off" any reasonable person would take that to mean "Do you want me to get him off".

Maybe in lala land? Grow up, oh wait, you've consistently proved you think you know better than anyone else in this thread, I wouldn't expect you to.

"Do you want him off?" is considerably different to "Do you want me to get him off?" - the outcome may be the same but the question is different.

 

[Chew Chew]

You're doing exactly that by arguing your point. Unless you are saying that you think your opinion isn't correct?

I'm saying that my opinion is just that, my opinion.

Bungle73, on the other hand, is passing his/her opinion off as fact.

 

[Chapeltom]

I'm not sure what's gained by continuing this discussion. We're covering the same ground again and again and again. It's clear nobody is going to change their mind on this.

Agreed. The same posters keep arguing in favour of Main and the same posters keep defending the guard. Lets hope Main is charged, prosecuted and fined and Pollock is let go.

 

[Bungle73]

Maybe in lala land? Grow up, oh wait, you've consistently proved you think you know better than anyone else in this thread, I wouldn't expect you to.

"Do you want him off?" is considerably different to "Do you want me to get him off?" - the outcome may be the same but the question is different.

Why don't you grow up? Everyone and his dog knows exactly what was meant. The fact that now you are trying twist what was said to mean something different shows you know you have lost the argument.

I'm saying that my opinion is just that, my opinion.

Bungle73, on the other hand, is passing his/her opinion off as fact.

Show me where I did that? At least I'm not pulling random assumptions out of the air like everyone else is doing.

I'm not sure what's gained by continuing this discussion. We're covering the same ground again and again and again. It's clear nobody is going to change their mind on this.

Indeed. I'm out of here........

 

[ValleyLines142]

I think the big guy was right to have been arrested, he's only done himself no favours by assaulting the chav. If he hadn't have got involved it probably would have been a lot calmer. He had cuts and bruises to his face, he smashed his face on Linlithgow platform.

Yes, the chav was drunk and didn't have a ticket but all it took was the conductor to call the police and sort out fare evasion, so in a way the conductor hasn't acted responsibly either, just as well his retirement is in two weeks.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I think the big guy should have been arrested, he's only done himself no favours by assaulting the chav. If he hadn't have got involved it probably would have been a lot calmer.

Yes, the chav was drunk and didn't have the right ticket but all it took was the conductor to call the police and sort out fare evasion.

When was the last time you called BTP? they are so few and far between you can literally be waiting an hour or more and only then will they decide to call the local coppers, there isn't enough of them.

 

[ValleyLines142]

When was the last time you called BTP? they are so few and far between you can literally be waiting an hour or more and only then will they decide to call the local coppers, there isn't enough of them.

True, but they would have come eventually I'm sure, there's an extra unneccessary crime involved now.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe TOC's should start passenger profiling at station entrances then,barr people from travelling if they look like a chav or look like they may use foul language.

Nothing wrong with that idea!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

True, but they would have come eventually I'm sure, there's an extra unneccessary crime involved now.

The trouble is what would have happened in that hour, the outcome could have been alot worse (or the complete opposite), the trouble is with the lack of policing on the network and the fact Guards are almost powerless means situations like this will become more and more common until Traincrew get assaulted even more on a regular basis than now and thats the trouble.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The trouble is what would have happened in that hour, the outcome could have been alot worse (or the complete opposite), the trouble is with the lack of policing on the network and the fact Guards are almost powerless means situations like this will become more and more common until Traincrew get assaulted even more on a regular basis than now and thats the trouble.

How could the outcome become worse?? The big guy (I don't know his name, sorry, everyone else is referring to him as bigguy) assaulted the chav. I don't think (from the video) that the chav was going to get violent, just vocal.

What did annoy me was the fact that everyone clapped at the end, like some kind of show or act. I would have said to bigman what the f have you done quite frankly.

The police would probably have issued him with a fine at home.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

How could the outcome become worse?? The big guy (I don't know his name, sorry, everyone else is referring to him as bigguy) assaulted the chav. I don't think (from the video) that the chav was going to get violent, just vocal.

What did annoy me was the fact that everyone clapped at the end, like some kind of show or act. I would have said to bigman what the f have you done quite frankly.

The police would probably have issued him with a fine at home.

If Mr Main took the next step and Assaulted the Guard, he was already Verbally Assaulted the Conductor with potty mouth language, he was acting aggressively (everyone has different views on this, but this is mine) and the fact late teen Vs. almost Pensioner. it could have been far worse.

 

[ValleyLines142]

If Mr Main took the next step and Assaulted the Guard, he was already Verbally Assaulted the Conductor with potty mouth language, he was acting aggressively (everyone has different views on this, but this is mine) and the fact late teen Vs. almost Pensioner. it could have been far worse.

Fair enough. We obviously can't assume anything as we don't know what happened after, but I doubt he would have assaulted the conductor.

What I do want to know is, should the bigman have got arrested??

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Fair enough. We obviously can't assume anything as we don't know what happened after, but I doubt he would have assaulted the conductor.

What I do want to know is, should the bigman have got arrested??

My opinion is a emphatic NO!, however everyones view is different, in my view I wish there was more people like Mr Pollock willing to stand up for their morals however there is more chance of people watching someone getting the crap kicked out of them then actually helping, the joys of Broken British Isles (IMHO of course)

 

[amcluesent]

It's clear that the answer isn't to hold up the train while the conductor and wee neds have a barny of 'get off', 'make me, you ****wit', ad infinitum.

Without it becoming a fare - dodgers charter, have to have some of -

1) CCTV on board and the guard can note the date/time for follow-up against a mug-shot database
2) Guard photos offender for follow-up against a mug-shot database
3) Guards can carry a spray-canister of orange dye to squirt offender so BTP can pick-up later
4) Law is changed to allow wee neds to get a hell of a beating at the say-so of the guard.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It's clear that the answer isn't to hold up the train while the conductor and wee neds have a barny of 'get off', 'make me, you ****wit', ad infinitum.

Without it becoming a fare - dodgers charter, have to have some of -

1) CCTV on board and the guard can note the date/time for follow-up against a mug-shot database
2) Guard photos offender
3) Guards can carry a spray-canister of orange dye to squirt offender so BTP can pick-up later
4) Law is changed to allow wee neds to get a hell of a beating at the say-so of the guard.

We can all dream

 

[WestCoast]

Abusive language should NOT be tolerated. There are no excuses; drunk, ill or whatever. People like Mr Main show a lack of RESPECT. People can defend him all they like, but no member of staff should be subjected to that.

Certainly on an aircraft, language and attitude like that would mean removal of the person involved. Crew members instructions must ALWAYS be obeyed and that is law in the skies.

I don't see why a train should be any different.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Certainly on an aircraft, language and attitude like that would mean removal of the person involved. Crew members instructions must ALWAYS be obeyed and that is law in the skies....

Presumably they get given a parachute??????:roll:

 

[amcluesent]

I'm minded the guard, just a few weeks away from retirement, was brought up in an age when wee neds would be given the tawse nay bother. When cheeked by the scrote, he forget training and just wanted to belt him one and accepted the 'big mans' offer to do this.

 

[WestCoast]

Presumably they get given a parachute??????:roll:

If there is a disruptive person onboard, the captain may well divert if possible. Or they may be forcibly restrained.

No one should have to tolerate verbal abuse. End of.

 

[Tin Rocket]

Abusive language should NOT be tolerated. There are no excuses; drunk, ill or whatever. People like Mr Main show a lack of RESPECT. People can defend him all they like, but no member of staff should be subjected to that.

Certainly on an aircraft, language and attitude like that would mean removal of the person involved. Crew members instructions must ALWAYS be obeyed and that is law in the skies.

I don't see why a train should be any different.

Do you include mental illness in your list of NO excuses ,or people who suffer with an OCD such as swearing out loud? thats a broad brush your painting everyone with.,

 

[WestCoast]

Do you include mental illness in your list of NO excuses ,or people who suffer with an OCD such as swearing out loud? thats a broad brush your painting everyone with.,

Mental illness is obviously a special case, it depends on the individual case. You know I'm not talking about that either, I'm talking about those who choose to be abusive towards members of staff.

Mr Main was presumably of sound mind, are you defending him and his language?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Do you include mental illness in your list of NO excuses ,or people who suffer with an OCD such as swearing out loud? thats a broad brush your painting everyone with.,

Surely you mean Tourettes rather than OCD?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If there is a disruptive person onboard, the captain may well divert if possible. Or they may be forcibly restrained.

No one should have to tolerate verbal abuse. End of.

"Humour, it is a difficult concept" - Lt Saavik, Star Trek II

 

[asylumxl]

Do you include mental illness in your list of NO excuses ,or people who suffer with an OCD such as swearing out loud? thats a broad brush your painting everyone with.,

But someone with say Tourettes would usually apologise to those around them and explain.

Main had no excuse, just a little ned who thought he was a big man, who is now making excuses.

 

[WestCoast]

"Humour, it is a difficult concept" - Lt Saavik, Star Trek II

Sorry, I am usually up for a laugh on here too.

I feel quite strongly about foul mouths. I have a friend with Tourettes and that is nothing like this situation!!

 

[Tin Rocket]

Surely you mean Tourettes rather than OCD?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


"Humour, it is a difficult concept" - Lt Saavik, Star Trek II

Tourettes is often associated with an OCD or ADHD.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Is it really? I was unaware of that.

 

[WestCoast]

I am just trying to highlight an important issue here. It shouldn't be acceptable to respond in a way that Mr Main did here. Those who defend him don't seem to acknowledge that. Verbal abuse on public transport should be treated just as seriously as physical abuse, but sadly (IMO) it does not receive the same recognition.

Deliberate verbal abuse is identifiable. My mention of 'illness' was in response to Main's mention of Diabetes. I wasn't talking about Tourettes and so on, which has very little to do with the situation here.

 

[sonorguy]

I'm minded the guard, just a few weeks away from retirement, was brought up in an age when wee neds would be given the tawse nay bother. When cheeked by the scrote, he forget training and just wanted to belt him one and accepted the 'big mans' offer to do this.

I'd agree completely with you on this. Sadly, he really didn't help what was a difficult situation.