TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[trawscymru27]

Arriva have added the new timetables to their website:

10/20/40/40 here: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/Wales/WAAB10,20,40,50_260212_220112.pdf

41 here: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/Wales/WAAB41_260212_220112.pdf

It appears that Richards Bros will have to re-time some services again to ensure connections to/from Cardigan can be met, especially northbound. The new 41 service is pleasing, and provides more buses from Llandysul, though the new Bwcabus journeys replacing service 551 will now be surplus. Also, the 20 (Aber - Cardiff) still runs via Pencader (and Llanwnen according to the map!?), depsite this having at least an hourly service on the 40 and 41, so is not much quicker even though Swansea has been left out. Work is still needed...

On another note, there are more pictures of the Stagecoach Tempos on Flickr, here http://www.flickr.com/photos/gcbp/6776197875/

and here http://www.flickr.com/photos/gcbp/6776197549/in/photostream/

I think the livery is rather underwhelming.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Arriva have added the new timetables to their website:

10/20/40/40 here: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/Wales/WAAB10,20,40,50_260212_220112.pdf

41 here: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/Wales/WAAB41_260212_220112.pdf

It appears that Richards Bros will have to re-time some services again to ensure connections to/from Cardigan can be met, especially northbound. The new 41 service is pleasing, and provides more buses from Llandysul, though the new Bwcabus journeys replacing service 551 will now be surplus. Also, the 20 (Aber - Cardiff) still runs via Pencader (and Llanwnen according to the map!?), depsite this having at least an hourly service on the 40 and 41, so is not much quicker even though Swansea has been left out. Work is still needed...

I think I found the 40/50/10/20 timetable as well...

It appears Arriva have been watching Johnny English Reborn (the scene where they fly a helicopter along a road) and decided to use a helicopter on the 40 and 50 (how else will they get from Carmarthen station to the bus station in 2minutes and knock 4 minutes off the jouney time between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron?) Seriously, how do they expect to keep time, esspecially on the 07:20 from New Quay to Aberystwyth University which is pretty close to getting stuck in the morning traffic jam (which at it's peak stretches back as far as Llanfririan)?

The Richards Bros services certainly look like needing ajustments. Unfortunatly the northbound 40 timetable has reversed the current problem (making the southbound Richards services wait an extra 5 minutes) and now appears to be going to force the Richards X50 through services to depart Aberystwyth nearer the hour (the last one is 6pm at the moment, which is too early if you finish work or university at 6, the old 6:15pm departure time was much more useful, and the 16:10 could do with being retimed to depart a little later (at 16:15) too in my opinion). Whatever happens, it looks as if (b leaving at 16:00 dead instead of (supposedly, it is often late) 16:10 at present) all the college students (rather than just some of them) will be bundled onto the frequently overcrowded 16:10 X50.

The 41 (and Bwcabus fixed service 551) doesn't seem to really replace the old 551 that stopped on 5th Dec (that came all the way from New Quay).

So the TrawsCambria consultation responce said improved legroom (and access to toliet facilities) were priorities, so how come it appears WAG have ordered the same X1200 Tempos as X40 (yes, I'm aware of the two X1260 Cardiff buses, but they only have decent legroom at 4 seats I think), 704 and 550 (which have insufficent legroom, unlike the two X1260 Tempos for the X50)?

 

[mbonwick]

Don't forget that legroon depends on the number of seats fitted.
I wouldn't be surprised if WAG have specified one or more rows to be removed and a toilet fitted.

 

[anthony263]

Don't forget that legroon depends on the number of seats fitted.
I wouldn't be surprised if WAG have specified one or more rows to be removed and a toilet fitted.

No toilets on the tempo's.

As for the Trawscambria livery this has been discussed on the welsh bus news group and the majority of the opinions are that it is a bit plain and could have been a lot better.

 

[Sun!]

I am quite confused about this Arriva thing as surely WAG have bought new Tempos for what would have replaced the X40, when Arriva are going to use their own buses, so what will happen with the new buses, and all the buses that now run on the X40 currently as the WG and Ceredigion Council own them?? Also Arriva currently operates Aberysywth-Aberaeron and Carmarthen-Cardiff commercially, so will they operate this new service entirely commercially or have Councils agreed to subsidise? (Service 41 surely must be subsidised by Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire)

What have they also done to the timings?Aberystwyth-Lampeter will now take 64 minutes rather than 80 as current. And Lampeter the Carmarthen Railway Station 52 minutes instead of 62 as current. And McArthur Glen- Cardiff will take 26 minutes instead of 40. Are the new VDL Arriva buses rocket propelled? Arriva also have form in Aberystwyth of changing bus timetables to unrealistic levels where you'd struggle to do the route in the car during rush-hour with practically no layover time.

The loss of the X40 for the Traws network will give it a major blow as it will leave a large rural part of the country unversed. Richard Bros will also have to re-jig their route to better connect with Arriva services, I do however wonder if WG will want Richard Bros to run all their services Cardigan-Aberaeron-Aberysywth with TrawsCymru buses.

Some good news is the new Arriva 10, 20, 40, 50 service is vastly improved on the old X40/ 550 services. Far better earlier and later times and incomparable Sunday timetables due to the vast improvement. The old/ current timetable- http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/Wales/WAABX40_051211_211111.pdf
I do however wonder with all the extra services, how do Arriva think they are going to make money on the route? I know the buses are well used and many are full with standees, which isnt ideal on a long distance route with long windy roads, but it seems to much to me.

The new TrawsCymru livery is vomit inducing foul. It also got so much written on it, and it's confusing to read.

 

[anthony263]

Arriva are taking over the service commercially.

I do think that the services to Cardiff should serve Swansea as they seem to save less than 5 minutes and have more than 2 trips in each direction per day maybe at least 4 direct services between Aberystwyth & Cardiff.

New new vehciles will be low floor double deckers with coach seats which should help encourage more passengers especially with the reduced journey times. I am not sure what coaches Arriva plan to use on the services which run beyond Carmarthen Railway Stn - Cardiff.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Don't forget that legroon depends on the number of seats fitted.

Of course, that's why the Cardiff X40s (X1260 Tempos) have only 4 seats with ample legroom while the X1260 Tempos on X50 have 4 rows of 4 seats with ample legroom. I think the Cardiff X40s have an extra row of 4 seats, while the X50s have the same number of seats as the 550s and Carmarthen X40s (and taking out a whole row of seats on those would have too much impact, removing one of the folding seats on each side might provide additional legroom without too many negatives though).

As for the Trawscambria livery this has been discussed on the welsh bus news group and the majority of the opinions are that it is a bit plain and could have been a lot better.

The TrawsCymru livery is plain and disapointing, Richards Bros' and Stagecoach's TrawsCambria liveries are much smarter.

I've tried to make up (in Photoshop) a smarter & neater livery for the TC4, based on the current Stagecoach TrawsCambria livery but without the Arriva-isum. Unfortunatly my logo doesn't really work very well when put on the bus (or a WAG express 57 for that matter, which is what I initally made the logo up for).

 

[tnwbb]

Arriva currently have two DAF SB4000's from Arriva Midlands in their Paint Shop in Liverpool with the fleet numbers of 0001 and 0002 for TrawsCymru services.

Here's a link to some photographs taken by a member of staff for me as I was unable to visit, http://www.thenorthwestbusblog.co.uk/2012/01/coaches-for-arriva-buses-wales.html

Hope this is of use.

 

[anthony263]

Arriva currently have two DAF SB4000's from Arriva Midlands in their Paint Shop in Liverpool with the fleet numbers of 0001 and 0002 for TrawsCymru services.

Here's a link to some photographs taken by a member of staff for me as I was unable to visit, http://www.thenorthwestbusblog.co.uk/2012/01/coaches-for-arriva-buses-wales.html

Hope this is of use.

Nice I look foreward to taking a trip on 1 of these as well as the new deckers

 

[Rhydgaled]

What have they also done to the timings?Aberystwyth-Lampeter will now take 64 minutes rather than 80 as current. And Lampeter the Carmarthen Railway Station 52 minutes instead of 62 as current. And McArthur Glen- Cardiff will take 26 minutes instead of 40. Are the new VDL Arriva buses rocket propelled?

I think the will buses will have to be able to fly, or drive through solid objects (eg. cars) without damage. As I said earlier, I don't think Carmarthen station to Carmarthen bus station can be done in the two minutes they have timetabled, or achive their claimed reductions in journey time between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron.

Also, take a look at the 07:25 New Quay - Aberystwyth 550 service. It is currently timetabled to be at North Parade, Aberystwyth at 08:30, which it rarely manages. In the new timetable, the equivelent service 50 is 07:20 from New Quay, but timetabled to reach Aberystwyth station (not all that far from North Parade) at 08:13. Let's allow 2 minutes to go from the station to North Parade, that's a claimed 15 minutes earlier arrival than the current service, despite the new service only leaving New Quay 5 minutes earlier.

The loss of the X40 for the Traws network will give it a major blow as it will leave a large rural part of the country unversed. Richard Bros will also have to re-jig their route to better connect with Arriva services, I do however wonder if WG will want Richard Bros to run all their services Cardigan-Aberaeron-Aberysywth with TrawsCymru buses.

I really, really, want to see the Richards Bros X50 extended to Aberystwyth all day. They don't even need more buses, YJ55BKE and YJ55BKF are sufficent for a 2-hourly X50 service (and a lot more comfortable than Arriva's current Tempo fleet on X40/550). They could use an extra comfortable Tempo or two (or refurbish their third Tempo (YJ55BJK) to make the legroom match YJ55BKE/BKF) though to operate the 19:45 and 20:55 services (550, though as the 20:55 only goes via New Quay I think (not Aberporth as well) I think it should be re-numbered 50) from Aberystwyth though (currently these seem to be operated by YJ55BKE/BKF, but they wouldn't be able to if they ran all X50 services).

Some good news is the new Arriva 10, 20, 40, 50 service is vastly improved on the old X40/ 550 services. Far better earlier and later times and incomparable Sunday timetables due to the vast improvement.

There are some improvements yes, including later evening services from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen, but there is no service 40 arriving in Aberystwyth before 9am (currently there is an X40 (from Pencader I think though) arriving at the station at (I guess) about 08:50, but I suppose that is a bit late to get to work/college/university by 9 anyway). Also, they appear to be closing the Pencader and New Quay outstations, since there are really early services down from Aberystwyth arriving at Syond Inn/New Quay/Carmarthen in time to run the first morning services from those places to Aberystwyth. The only strange thing there is the 23:20 from Aberystwyth to New Quay, which arrives after midnight and doesn't appear to have a return working. A mistake perhaps?

 

[Greenback]

As I said earlier, I don't think Carmarthen station to Carmarthen bus station can be done in the two minutes they have timetabled

There is no way they will be able to depart from the bus station and then depart again from the rail station two minutes later, especially if there are passengers being picked up there. It would be very difficult just to arrive at the rail station two minutes after leaving the bus station!

 

[Rhydgaled]

It would be very difficult just to arrive at the rail station two minutes after leaving the bus station!

Exactly. Unless they have a bus that can fly across the river, their timetable isn't going to work.

 

[Greenback]

It might just be possible with no other traffic, a clear run and a following wind, but I don't think it's achievable on a regular basis - maybe once in every ninety trips?!!

 

[anthony263]

It might just be possible with no other traffic, a clear run and a following wind, but I don't think it's achievable on a regular basis - maybe once in every ninety trips?!!

You could just about drive between the 2 in 2 minutes but then you need a few minutess to pick up the passengers especially if they are oap's who dont have their bus passes ready and are too be chatting to their freinds about something stupid like what they did at bingo or they saved some money on a cake etc

 

[Welshman]

You could just about drive between the 2 in 2 minutes but then you need a few minutess to pick up the passengers especially if they are oap's who dont have their bus passes ready and are too be chatting to their freinds about something stupid like what they did at bingo or they saved some money on a cake etc

OOh - that's rather ageist!

How about:-

"especially if they are young people who dont [sic] have their money/bus passes ready and are too be[sic] chatting to their freinds[sic] on their mobiles about something stupid like what they did to their girlfriends/boyfriends last night, or they saved some money on a top/pair of trainers etc"?

 

[anthony263]

OOh - that's rather ageist!

How about:-

"especially if they are young people who dont [sic] have their money/bus passes ready and are too be[sic] chatting to their freinds[sic] on their mobiles about something stupid like what they did to their girlfriends/boyfriends last night, or they saved some money on a top/pair of trainers etc"?

Thats actually me making an observation and being polite. I could say a lot worse and you should listen to what some other bus drivers have to say which will be a lot worse than what I will

 

[Welshman]

Thats actually me making an observation and being polite. I could say a lot worse and you should listen to what some other bus drivers have to say which will be a lot worse than what I will

Yes, I appreciate what you are saying, and my comments were made with tongue-in-cheek, hence the

Surely the point is that all passengers will delay a bus by boarding and alighting, and a timetable which does not allow for that is unrealistic. After all, isn't the bus there for the passengers?

I can see that the process takes longer now than it used to, since bus companies started advising passengers to ring the bell to request the driver to stop at the next stop, and then remain seated until the bus stops. I realise this is to avoid alighting passengers being thrown to the floor if the bus stops suddenly, but it all takes more time, especially if the alighting passenger is seated near the rear of the bus.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, I appreciate what you are saying, and my comments were made with tongue-in-cheek, hence the

Surely the point is that all passengers will delay a bus by boarding and alighting, and a timetable which does not allow for that is unrealistic. After all, isn't the bus there for the passengers?

I can see that the process takes longer now than it used to, since bus companies started advising passengers to ring the bell to request the driver to stop at the next stop, and then remain seated until the bus stops. I realise this is to avoid alighting passengers being thrown to the floor if the bus stops suddenly, but it all takes more time, especially if the alighting passenger is seated near the rear of the bus.

Despite the advice, almost all the passengers on the buses that I have used still walk to the front of the bus before it stops.

I am glad of this, because most of the timetables around here are not realistic enough to allow for a minute or two at every stop while people get off and then others get on.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I can see that the process takes longer now than it used to, since bus companies started advising passengers to ring the bell to request the driver to stop at the next stop, and then remain seated until the bus stops. I realise this is to avoid alighting passengers being thrown to the floor if the bus stops suddenly, but it all takes more time, especially if the alighting passenger is seated near the rear of the bus.

Since the buses all have poles to hold on to, and passengers sometimes have to stand holding these poles for their whole journey anyway, that advice seems pointless and hence I am one of those who tend to ignore it. The extra time taken for passengers to get on and off if they have to be seated at all times while the bus is in motion is also the reason why I find the WAG plan to force school buses (alright in itself, but many of these vehicles are then used on public services during the day) to have seat belts concerning. There is of course a law that if seat belts are fitted to the vehicle, you MUST use them at all times when the bus is moving. That probablly means no standing passengers allowed and no walking up to the front before the bus stops to save extentions of other passenger's journey time.

 

[DaveHarries]

There was to be an official launch of the new Tempos at Brecon Bus Station on 01st March but I had an email informing me that this launch has been cancelled. Not sure as to why.

Four of the Tempos have now been delivered and there is some suggestion that they could enter service during the coming few days on the existing timetable. This will give Stagecoach the chance to take the existing ones off the road for repainting and other work.

Will post again if I hear anything else.

Dave

 

[anthony263]

A video of similar double deckers for Rhyl which are the same as the vehicles that Arriva have ordered for their new service 40/50 which will arrive in august.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6b9ocB6vfw&feature=g-u-u&context=G2aea969FUAAAAAAAMAA

 

[Rhydgaled]

It appears an invitation to tender was issued for TC1 (which they are calling T1, does that mean the TC1/TC4 routes claimed on the TrawsCymru website are well and truely deceased?) and L1 (Llandysul - Carmarthen), with a closing date of 21st November 2011 and opening of tenders on the same day. The start date of the service was given as 1/4/2012. I assume therefore that they must have operned the tenders, and chosen a prefered bidder, before Arriva decided to go it alone. If I'm right, what then happens to whoever was prefered bidder? Alternativly, was Arriva the prefered bidder, in which case isn't there a breach of contract on both sides here?

Is there anywhere more information on this tender, and it's outcome, can be found?

Are the new Tempos in service on the Newtown - Cardiff route yet, and if so has anyone seen any photos of the interior online that I could have a look at? The TrawsCambria/Cymru website really needs updating to explain all the messy stuff that is going on with X40/T1/TC1/40/whatever it is tonight. It appears that it really is a mess, and I'm just a regular passenger on a TrawsCambria route, somebody who actualy has responsibilty for some of this stuff must be tareing their hair out.

 

[anthony263]

It appears an invitation to tender was issued for TC1 (which they are calling T1, does that mean the TC1/TC4 routes claimed on the TrawsCymru website are well and truely deceased?) and L1 (Llandysul - Carmarthen), with a closing date of 21st November 2011 and opening of tenders on the same day. The start date of the service was given as 1/4/2012. I assume therefore that they must have operned the tenders, and chosen a prefered bidder, before Arriva decided to go it alone. If I'm right, what then happens to whoever was prefered bidder? Alternativly, was Arriva the prefered bidder, in which case isn't there a breach of contract on both sides here?

Is there anywhere more information on this tender, and it's outcome, can be found?

Are the new Tempos in service on the Newtown - Cardiff route yet, and if so has anyone seen any photos of the interior online that I could have a look at? The TrawsCambria/Cymru website really needs updating to explain all the messy stuff that is going on with X40/T1/TC1/40/whatever it is tonight. It appears that it really is a mess, and I'm just a regular passenger on a TrawsCambria route, somebody who actualy has responsibilty for some of this stuff must be tareing their hair out.

2 of the new Tempo's have entered service and some photographs have been published on the welsh bus photographs group on google

I have been given a heads up about some possible changes with the X63 Swansea - Brecon and 1 or 2 other trawscambria or connecting routes.

Edit found some photos on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/welshpete2007/

 

[Rhydgaled]

I'm currently on YJ55BKF (Richards Bro's Wi-Fi equiped Tempo), and just heard some passengers suggest that Arriva have been bought by a German company. I know that part of course, and the identity of the German company in question (DB). What I didn't know (and having just got it from a fellow passenger this is dubious info) was that the Germans (DB) aren't very interested in the bus operation and will close Aberystwyth depot (the outstations in New Quay and Pencader look like they are going anyway when the new timetables (10, 20, 40 & 50) come in) if it doesn't make them enough money by a certain date. Didn't catch when the date was though.

Any idea if this dubious info is confirmed, or is it a myth you can bust?

 

[anthony263]

There was talk of it, although from what I know of speaking to some other bus enthusiasts on the welsh bus news group the depot in Aberystwyth is staying open as Arriva are looking like they may get more work down in the west wales area especially with First loosing some tenders.

Although there has been no word about what is happening to the outstations

I think the main group to keep an eye on over the next 12-18 months are stagecoach with them looking to expand their south wales operations further to the west especially with First group wining some contracts from their depot in Cardiff which I think has caused some alarm.

 

[Greenback]

I would have thought that if DB wanted to divest themselves of their bus operations they would look to sell them off rather than close them down?

 

[anthony263]

I would have thought that if DB wanted to divest themselves of their bus operations they would look to sell them off rather than close them down?

Yes that is what a lot of others have said on other forums

 

[Greenback]

Yes that is what a lot of others have said on other forums

Good, it's not just me then! Closing down depots must cost a company money, whereas selling the business will raise money!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Good, it's not just me then! Closing down depots must cost a company money, whereas selling the business will raise money!

Then why does the new timetable make it look like they won't be using the mini-depots at New Quay and Pencader?

Sounds more sensible to sell the business rather than close depots though, as you say. However, could they sell the Aberystwyth portion of the business if it doesn't make a large enough profit for their likeing but they still want to keep the rest of Arriva bus?

 

[trawscymru27]

The new Richards timetable for the X50/550 has appeared on their website. They have changed their services to provide good connections with the new Arriva services for most of the day, and there are more through X50 services.

http://www.richardsbros.co.uk/PDF Timetables/X50 550 27th feb 2012.pdf

There are also new Bwcabus fixed services now that Arriva's 10, 20 and 40 don't run via Cribyn.

http://www.richardsbros.co.uk/PDF Timetables/616 617.pdf