Manchester77
Established Member
Hi I heard that the S8 stock was designed to have some 2+3 style seats and I was wondering if anyone: knows anything else about this and secondly if it will/would be implemented?
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S8 stock seating
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Mutant Lemming
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http://www.train-photos.com/picture/number14167.asp
http://www.train-photos.com/picture/number14166.asp
A mix as pictured on the links
http://www.train-photos.com/picture/number14166.asp
A mix as pictured on the links
Dstock7080
Established Member
The MET will also soon temporarily receive 3 S7+1 trains as cover while 30 of their own S8s are returned to Derby.
These will have full longitudinal seating, the extra "M2" car to be numbered into the temporary formation, then removed into a newly built train after the project at Derby is finished and the M2 car renumbered again.
This should please the various MET User Committees!
These will have full longitudinal seating, the extra "M2" car to be numbered into the temporary formation, then removed into a newly built train after the project at Derby is finished and the M2 car renumbered again.
This should please the various MET User Committees!
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Dstock7080
Established Member
Several theories, some more plausible than others!, from bogies to wiring loom problems.
tom1649
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Shame they can't keep 3 'A' Stocks running while the mods are carried out.
MCR247
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At least it isn't something really bad which means the 30 sets have to be grounded!
CarltonA
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Is it 30 cars or 30 sets which need to recieve rectification at Derby?
Peter Mugridge
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30 complete 8 car units; the first 30 that were built.
Nym
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Can I just add another, "Well done Derby" and point to the sig...
transmanche
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The build quality of the S8 units I've been on doesn't seem to be as good as the 378 units I've been on - the S8s seem to have lots of rattling panels etc. Aren't they both built by Bombardier in Derby?
fgwrich
Established Member
I wouldn't exactly say Built, more assembled in Derby (or Bashed Together). For some reason, Bombardier Derby is starting to remind me of the old British Leyland workmanship / Work philosophy .
RE Dosent supprise me about the build quaility issues, the last unit i went on several months ago had the felt stripes placed between the panels falling out, and the ride quality didnt exactly feel 100 '/, either.
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M2 car added to give better braking in rheo and eventually when the great volt up comes in - regen. So I've heard anyway.
Just take a look in the defect books and you'll see whats wrong with them, shocking workmanship from the agency workers at Bombardier.
Just take a look in the defect books and you'll see whats wrong with them, shocking workmanship from the agency workers at Bombardier.
causton
Established Member
I'll ask next time I'm on one
...this intrigues me though! I want to actually do that now! :P
MCR247
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But still people say we should buy from
them...
them...
Like the Victoria Line trains then. At least they're consistent in being bad.
WinterChief
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All Cars on S Stock provide rheo/regen and friction brake as they all have motors so regardless of any car added the proportion of cars to brakes will still be the same.
When new trains come in there will always be problems. However, some of these originated from design, some from manufacture and some from general wear and tear.
Can you please explain?
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MCR247
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Bombardier Derby are well known for being
at building trains
There are strips/padding between various panels, presumably to stop them rubbing or squeaking, and on many (most?) they're partially hanging out or simply never fitted properly in the first place.
That shows a total lack of attention or pride in the quality control department. If I had the job of looking over future tenders, I'd reject Bombardier until they could prove that they could get deliver a train that has no such faults.
I remember a few week old 377/5 delivered to FCC, where the door to the disabled toilet got stuck after opening half way. It was unable to open any further or close itself. Aren't they 'stress tested' to work hundreds or thousands of times like most things?
WinterChief
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But was this the fault of the design team in the sense that the wrong type of felt sealant was bought for the job? The team that were installing it, were they not installing it correctly/ properly? Was the component taken apart for routine maintenance and the depot staff not correctly applying it? Is it just being pulled out by members of the public or normal wear and tear?
If this is all that is wrong with the train from a travellers point of view, that's doing pretty good! Out of all the upgrades recently (Met, Jubilee, Vic) on the tube the Victoria Line has been by far the best and the most efficient. Very little closures, very few failures, not that many problems with the stock and I still get a train every two minutes.
They are tested, but that is no match for the public, as indeed Bombardier found out with sensitive edge - it needed some modifications for it to work properly, yet that was tested like mad in Derby.
The door problem was yet another issue that should have been fixed before delivery, given the problem with people holding open the doors was so well known - already being a major cause of delays on the stock it was replacing!
So all the testing at Derby was obviously being done incorrectly to not be detected until put into service.
So all the testing at Derby was obviously being done incorrectly to not be detected until put into service.
MCR247
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And tbh its a pretty big thing to miss?
fgwrich
Established Member
A how much was London Underground quoted at Fixing this - a fix which they came up with themselves, whilst Bombardier sheepishly claimed that they had sort of known about this over a phone conference. (Yes, i have been re-watching The Tube lately, and i remember that episode quite well. Guess why?) :roll:
It's interesting to see some of the more recent London Underground new stock news - I think it was infrarail this/last year, where both Bombardier & Siemens was interviewed by either Rail or Modern Railways about future new deep level stock. Siemens gave clear and concise answers about various technological aspects ranging from regen braking, power efficiency to how it would achieve fully working Air Conditioning in this new stock, with some figures and computer models to show with it. Bombardier on the other hand...gave some sort of muddled answers revolving around any new deep level tube stock will be a completely brand new product started on a blank piece of paper, By using the new Victoria line stock as a base. So it's not new then, just typically recycled. Welcome to Bombardier.
Now, whilst we can admit that Old Dalby is no Wildenrath, Bombardier should not only be testing their stock for all eventualities, including doors being held back / objects getting trapped in doors, passengers leaning on the doors during service, each item of rolling stock should also be quality control checked before it leaves the factory. After all, its becoming a very repetitive subject now, isnt it?!
Dstock7080
Established Member
Off topic but on this very issue of testing, anyone know why the '09 Stock didn't visit Old Dalby and were delivered by road, whereas the S Stock spend weeks on the test track and are delivered complete by rail?
Manchester77
Established Member
Because the 2009 stock was built wider than any other stock to take advantage of the Victoria lines wider tunnels.
transmanche
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IIRC, 2009 stock is confined to the Victoria line due to its size - so can't use the connection onto the Piccadilly line at Finsbury Park. And I don't think there's a connection onto NR at Northumberland Park depot. So the only way to deliver them would be by road.
317666
Established Member
A friend of mine sent me the following quote about 2009TS unit 11040, further proving how good Bombardier are at building tube stock:
"The panels with the 4-5 inch holes drilled in for the external door access cocks were in the wrong place. It was not acceptable to repair the one and drill the other, so they the car was disassembled to the point where they could be swapped.
By wrong place, I mean behind the wrong set of seats further down the car."
"The panels with the 4-5 inch holes drilled in for the external door access cocks were in the wrong place. It was not acceptable to repair the one and drill the other, so they the car was disassembled to the point where they could be swapped.
By wrong place, I mean behind the wrong set of seats further down the car."
Nym
Established Member
They really weren't paying attention when they built these were they?
Why do I get the feeling I'll end up in Northumberland Park some day soon?
Why do I get the feeling I'll end up in Northumberland Park some day soon?
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