Ticket machines - tell me about the problems you've faced.

CC 72100 · 29 Sep 2012

Just used one at Exeter St Davids, and compared to my experience at Honiton (post #18), it was much, much easier. I'm not saying I'm a complete convert, but the screen was actually responsive and well laid out, and it didn't take an absolute age to print. I don't think it currently does, but it would be good if they could also do Ranger tickets, as it looks like it only does the 'normal' stuff at present.

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D841 Roebuck · 29 Sep 2012

I don't use automatic machines where a human alternative is available. This applies equally to Supermarkets as railway stations. With 2 million plus people unemployed this is a moral choice.

jon0844 · 29 Sep 2012

route:oxford said:
Biggest problem is that they are all designed for wheelchair users. Yes, make sure the majority of machines are "universal" - but in major stations please install machines suitable for people who are taller than 150cm.

Either install two (C&P) screens even if the card slot is lower down or make it possible to tip the card reader/display/pin pad up or down.

I'm sure someone can find a way to solve the problem. It seems that when some people think of making things accessible, they assume that a disabled person = wheelchair user.

SussexMan · 29 Sep 2012

D841 Roebuck said:
I don't use automatic machines where a human alternative is available. This applies equally to Supermarkets as railway stations. With 2 million plus people unemployed this is a moral choice.

You know, sometimes I just wonder whether there are more people employed in the design, research, manufacturing, installation, maintaining, renewal, etc of the technology than in the ticket offices!

Searle · 29 Sep 2012

Nothing major here, but yesterday, I wanted to buy a London z1-6 travelcard for that day, and the day after (today :P). At Hertford North you're able to do that, but you can't at Hertford East, and the ticket office was closed, which was annoying. Had to stop at Tottenham Hale and buy the ticket from the office, wasted a bit of my time >:

Butts · 30 Sep 2012

At Edinburgh Waverley there are a multitude of machines to choose from. Most people use the ones on the concourse or the ones adjacent to the booking office.

That leaves the two "Virgin" ones in the main waiting area unused and easy to access at almost any time of day.

I collect most of my tickets from FKG which hardly ever has any queues. The one time I had a problem I just went into the ticket office and they sorted it out for me.

Perns1972 · 31 Oct 2012

Thanks for all of your feedback here.

Do you know whether TOC branded ticket machines offer tickets for competing routes from their machines? And do you know whether they have to?

For example, when travelling from Kings Cross to Peterborough, would an East Coast branded machine offer tickets on FCC? And vice versa.

Also, would say a Virgin branded machine at Euston sell tickets for London Midland services to Birmingham as well as their own? And vice versa?

And finally, if I was using a Virgin or London Midland branded machine at Euston, would the machines also display the alternative route from Marylebone on Chiltern?

Thanks everyone,

Matt

maniacmartin · 31 Oct 2012

Yes, TVMs offer tickets on other operator's routes, as long as they have the same origin (e.g. London Terminals). They do make other operators' TOC-only tickets or routes less prominent though (ie hiding them on page 2 etc). Of course an East Coast ticket would likely be ANY PERMITTED, so valid on FCC anyway

Roverman · 1 Nov 2012

SussexMan said:
You know, sometimes I just wonder whether there are more people employed in the design, research, manufacturing, installation, maintaining, renewal, etc of the technology than in the ticket offices!

I agree with Sussexman. Whilst I can see Roebucks point I've yet to see any company increas it's staffing just because people choose to use a manned desk. All that happens is management bully the staff into either keeping the queues down or combing said queue to try and make customers use the machines.

maniacmartin · 1 Nov 2012

It's rather annoying when you need to buy a ticket that the TVM doesn't sell, so queue for a manned desk behind people buying tickets that the TVM sells.

Then again some infrequent travellers are so slow using TVMs I wish they used the manned desk so I can use ToD without big queues!

BOBmcbob · 1 Nov 2012

The 3 new ones at Romford are a joke - they don't do Oyster (despite the station being in Zone 6) and they don't take Amex....Apart from that they are great

CC 72100 · 10 Dec 2012

Had a case of TVM problems last night. Arrived at Exeter St Davids at 9pm, wanting to by a Devon Evening Ranger (£3.30 with YP railcard discount). The station is staffed, but no ticket office open. Duty Station manager nice enough and apologetic about it, but says I have no option but to buy the ticket that I didn't really want, wouldn't cover me for more of a journey if I wanted to stay on a train longer etc., and was 75p more expensive (£4.05 off peak day return to Totnes, with a YP railcard discount).

Ok, so before anyone says, yes it's only 75p. But it's principle - how many other people have overpaid because only the TVM was open? Why should I, the customer, have to buy a ticket that I don't really want, just because of the time I use the station - shouldn't the full range of tickets be available whatever time it is, providing the station is open? How hard would it be to have someone with an Avantix to issue tickets that machines can't?

What should I have done if I was after this specific ticket, if, for example, I was travelling to Plymouth or also having a ride out to Exmouth or whatever?

The railway shoots itself in the foot sometimes.

Mcr Warrior · 10 Dec 2012

Had a problem at Manchester Piccadilly a few months ago where a Northern TVM wouldn't offer a Cheap Evening Return fare to a local station (despite it being a few minutes after 1830) whereas the Virgin TVM did offer the fare (!)

cuccir · 10 Dec 2012

@AdamW

You were ill-advised.

Part 1, Section A, Point 3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (my emphasis):

3. Where the full range of tickets is not available
If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. You must then, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey. The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to Travel

So you should have been told to purchase a cheaper ticket that covered part of your journey, and then been allowed to excess on-board or at your destination. I'd suggest that in your case, an off-peak day return to Newton Abbott (£3.30 with a YP discount) would have been appropriate, unless there is a Permit to Travel machine at Exeter St Davids?

Perhaps you should email First Great Western and point out that you were overcharged due to poor advice.

Paul Kelly · 10 Dec 2012

cuccir said:
Perhaps you should email First Great Western and point out that you were overcharged due to poor advice.

If it was me I would make the complaint more in the direction of ticket machine not selling the cheapest available tickets, staff unaware of the correct course of action. Point out that they could either fix the ticket machine or give their staff better training, either of which would have solved the problem.

I have a hunch that the way the typical complaint is phrased, in terms of problems resulting from an interaction with a staff member, makes it far too easy for customer services to fob the complainant off by making the staff member a scapegoat (I have been in this situation myself in the past). Better to make them face up to the fact that their ticket machines that don't sell all available tickets and that their staff are confused due to inadequate training and the complexity of the fares system.

cuccir · 10 Dec 2012

I agree with the sentiment of aiming to avoid targeting the individual.

CC 72100 · 10 Dec 2012

@Indigo2 & cuccir

Exactly my thoughts. I had no problems with the staff member, she was decent enough about it, but I think that you've hit the nail on the head, it's inherently wrong that the ticket machines don't sell the full range and makes customers overpay. It's this deeper issue that should be fixed, not what the staff member does.

Part of me does wonder though, could you have a ticket machine, similar to that used by guards, made available for staff to use when the ticket office is closed for tickets that are not available on the TVM. Granted training would have to take place, but it could be a stop-gap measure.

Then again, what motive does the railway (FGW in this case) have for rectifying the situation? - no commercial one at least!

Roverman · 10 Dec 2012

I see no reason why a member of staff could not 'queue bust' (1 or 2 of you will be aware of that phrase already!) with one of those machines in the same way someone walks along the line at a drive-thru taking orders when the queue gets a bit long?

What I do like at Stafford is the VT staff in the Travel Centre will stick their head out of the door and try and take some people out of the queue.

island · 10 Dec 2012

There may not be a machine and float available.

Roverman · 10 Dec 2012

Then the manager should look into getting a spare one made available, I saw at least 12 machines unused at LM HQ on Monday last week so spares do exist. A float wouldn't be required as you could be card only which I imagine would still put a dent in the queue.

Mex · 10 Dec 2012

I don't know if anyone else has seen the 'miniature' TVMs made by Scheidt & Bachmann that have made an appearance on the minor stops on the North Clyde Line.

The full-size TVMs at places like Glasgow Queen St, Livingston North etc always accept my Amex, by the 'mini' ones do not.

IanXC · 11 Dec 2012

AdamW said:
Had a case of TVM problems last night. Arrived at Exeter St Davids at 9pm, wanting to by a Devon Evening Ranger (£3.30 with YP railcard discount).

Another way around this is that FGW's new WebTIS interface sells selected Rover tickets, so you could purchase the Devon Evening Ranger online and collect using ToD.

CC 72100 · 11 Dec 2012

IanXC said:
Another way around this is that FGW's new WebTIS interface sells selected Rover tickets, so you could purchase the Devon Evening Ranger online and collect using ToD.

That's actually a fair point. I was aware that the new booking engine allowed the purchase of rover tickets, but me and I'm sure quite a few other passengers in that situation wouldn't think to book a journey that they were making within half an hour on the internet! All tickets should still be available at the station when it is open though, regardless of what facilities are provided.

May well do that next time mind, thanks

IanXC · 11 Dec 2012

AdamW said:
That's actually a fair point. I was aware that the new booking engine allowed the purchase of rover tickets, but me and I'm sure quite a few other passengers in that situation wouldn't think to book a journey that they were making within half an hour on the internet! All tickets should still be available at the station when it is open though, regardless of what facilities are provided.

May well do that next time mind, thanks

No problem just a little work around - absolutely agree that its a crazy situation. Its not even as if other TOCs don't make certain day rangers available from TVMs!

MKD · 11 Dec 2012

London Midland machines at Milton Keynes Central:
a) Why do they drop the tickets in the orientation that means they don't come out of the restricted flap without needing to reach in and bend them out , ie why aren't they twisted as they fall to drop longest side down ?
b) Why is the receipt slip time-lagged after so people may/may not forget to pick it up ?
c) Why is the out slot so protected and not 100% visible so that people DO leave their tickets behind ? Most cash machines just push the cash out the front!

GENERAL
a) Why are some machines alpha input as ABCDE and some QWERTY ? Surely there should be a standard!

Goatboy · 11 Dec 2012

IanXC said:
Another way around this is that FGW's new WebTIS interface sells selected Rover tickets, so you could purchase the Devon Evening Ranger online and collect using ToD.

How handy - sadly though they still don't offer Railcard discounts for Devon and Cornwall Railcard holders, which I'd imagine most people who know about the Devon Evening Ranger would hold

The FGW website will allow people with a 'Scottish Youth Railcard' to buy online but not a 'Devon and Cornwall Railcard'. I find this deeply ironic.

Do any of the other TOC websites allow purchase of Rover tickets?

Edit: Actually, wow. The FGW site *DOES* allow puchase with the Devon and Cornwall Railcard but only if you go in via the NRES site first - ie if NRES passes it the journey details. How come its not available in the dropdown box to select as a railcard? Still can't buy the Evening Ranger though as you can't get NRES to suggest that.

CC 72100 · 12 Dec 2012

Goatboy said:
How handy - sadly though they still don't offer Railcard discounts for Devon and Cornwall Railcard holders, which I'd imagine most people who know about the Devon Evening Ranger would hold

The FGW website will allow people with a 'Scottish Youth Railcard' to buy online but not a 'Devon and Cornwall Railcard'. I find this deeply ironic.

Do any of the other TOC websites allow purchase of Rover tickets?

Edit: Actually, wow. The FGW site *DOES* allow puchase with the Devon and Cornwall Railcard but only if you go in via the NRES site first - ie if NRES passes it the journey details. How come its not available in the dropdown box to select as a railcard? Still can't buy the Evening Ranger though as you can't get NRES to suggest that.

I just played around with trying to by a Devon Evening Ranger with a standard, YP railcard - 'There are currently no delivery options available for the combination of tickets. Please try again later.'

bb21 · 12 Dec 2012

I seem to recall that Rovers and Rangers cannot be collected from TVMs so can only be delivered via the postal system.

AndyLandy · 12 Dec 2012

MKD said:
GENERAL
a) Why are some machines alpha input as ABCDE and some QWERTY ? Surely there should be a standard!

YES! That annoys me, too. Or specifically, ABCDE ones annoy me. It wouldn't be hard to have a button to change the layout.

What annoys me even more is the yellow-on-green lettering (or is it green-on-yellow?) Either way, it's nigh on impossible to read.

gingerheid · 12 Dec 2012

Problems I've had have all related to not being able to collect tickets because the reference number draws a blank, and no formal reason why this happens has ever been explained to me.

Ticket machines - tell me about the problems you've faced.

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