Not so Greater Anglia

SprinterMan · 9 Nov 2012

jonmorris0844 said:
I think the only valid complaint was the release of the 317/7s and trying to run a service with few backups (thus short forming some trains).

However, if a few short formations is the price to pay for having saved a load of money leasing them - which has enabled GA to spend that money on proper deep cleans and refreshes, I am sure that many people would actually think it was a good thing.

Completely agree, when I first heard the 317/7s were going I was annoyed with GA but their loss has been more than worth it to get the 153, 156, 321/4 and now 170 refurbs. TBH, the 317/7s weren't that great anyway, they didn't have nearly enough seats for what they were being used for, the inter-carriage doors on them were downright dangerous, the lease was very expensive and due to the windows, the air-con used alot of power but didn't actually work.

Adam

RailUK Forums

ginger · 15 Nov 2012

jonmorris0844 said:
I think the only valid complaint was the release of the 317/7s and trying to run a service with few backups (thus short forming some trains).

However, if a few short formations is the price to pay for having saved a load of money leasing them - which has enabled GA to spend that money on proper deep cleans and refreshes, I am sure that many people would actually think it was a good thing.

Well chaps......a picture speaks a thousand words (or 000s for a season ticket)....many many people have expressed their opinions on this thread both good and bad.....

But just for once think about the passengers........who pay 000s every year to suffer this everyday! And just before everyone leaps on the "GA Deep Clean" bandwagon, consider this....these photos are taken AFTER the so called DEEP CLEAN!

http://www.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/ga-pics/

Have a look and then interested to see who on this thread actually thinks about the people who pay for this!

johnnyp_360 · 16 Nov 2012

some horrendous photos but I can quite belive them. I wonder why GA put them on their website.

HH · 16 Nov 2012

johnnyp_360 said:
some horrendous photos but I can quite belive them. I wonder why GA put them on their website.

LOL, that's not GA's website.

I notice that none of the photos are dated, which sort of defeats ginger's point. And I can't see why the story in the clipping at the top is a fail by GA.

jopsuk · 16 Nov 2012

HH said:
And I can't see why the story in the clipping at the top is a fail by GA.

Clearly people being utter arseholes is entirely within the control of GA... :lol:

jon0844 · 16 Nov 2012

ginger said:
http://www.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/ga-pics/

Have a look and then interested to see who on this thread actually thinks about the people who pay for this!

A dirty tray table? that could have been done just hours ago - irrelevant.

The other pictures show a mix of dirt, mostly made up of rubbish. A lot of rubbish (including chewing gum) can appear every single day, and if you travelled at night (on a weekend especially) you'd see how bad a train can get with food on the seats, sticky fizzy drinks and beer on the walls and puke etc. What you see might be a tiny fraction of what was in the train, and appeared long after the last deep clean.

Many passengers are like animals and even a brand new train would be trashed in minutes.

Then there are the photos of peeling trim/paint which can't be washed - indeed, the chemicals and scrubbing will probably make things worse. That will need a proper refresh, with the removal of the seat covers, carpet and new anti-graffiti paint etc.

Isn't that happening?

GA has a huge fleet to do, while keeping trains in service, so how do you propose they fix all of these things? Where are the photos of the trains they HAVE done for comparison purposes?

Pugwash · 16 Nov 2012

ginger said:
Well chaps......a picture speaks a thousand words (or 000s for a season ticket)....many many people have expressed their opinions on this thread both good and bad.....

But just for once think about the passengers........who pay 000s every year to suffer this everyday! And just before everyone leaps on the "GA Deep Clean" bandwagon, consider this....these photos are taken AFTER the so called DEEP CLEAN!

http://www.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/ga-pics/

Have a look and then interested to see who on this thread actually thinks about the people who pay for this!

The most shocking of those photos are the class 360 seat covers, they have not been replaced since the trains were introduced by first way back in 2003, and are showing it.

jon0844 · 16 Nov 2012

Yes, the 360s have looked bad for many years (certainly from long before GA) and they need to be totally refreshed. That wear does look like the result of people putting their feet on the seats though, not just people sitting on them.

SprinterMan · 16 Nov 2012

These pictures are from before the 321s were deep cleaned, which is a long process as there are over 90 321s, 17 of which have gotten a brand new interior anyway. If people are complaining that the seat covers on the 360s are a little threadbare, then they need to get perspective on things. I mean look at some of this stuff, really:
http://www.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/the-not-so-greater-anglia/

The “Not So“ Greater Anglia
The ageing Class 90 locomotive dragging a mishmash of outdated MK3 carriages is a familiar site on the Norwich to London mainline and almost seems a little too familiar! The fact that the last Class 90 entered service way back in 1990 and that the majority of the rolling stock used in Greater Anglia’s ‘fast train’ arrangements was manufactured between 1975 & 1988 goes a long way to explain this. Although reliable in their day, it is obvious that that day has long since passed, leaving the commuters of today wondering where all their money is going?

What the hell! Most places in the country would kill for our stock. FGW have 150s on 6 hour Penzance-Cardiff workings, Northern have pacers on busy commuter runs and long distance services like Leeds-Lancaster-Morecambe. 90s are not "ageing", they are only 2 years older than the Eurostar.

The only thing wrong with the coaches is that NX furnished them with a slightly odd interior colour scheme that feels a little dated. I personally quite like it, but I can see why some wouldn't. Our Mark 3s are really no worse than Grand Central's, or the Pretendolino or ATW's old "Premier" Mark 2s. What GA should do is tac a Merseyrail 142 on to the back of one of the IC sets and make everyone who posts on this website use it. Then they might get some perspective on things. As a semi-regular user of this line, I can tell you things are 10x better now than they were under NX a year or two ago, and I just wish people would be grateful for this for once.

Adam

jopsuk · 16 Nov 2012

describing them as a "mish mash" is a little odd as well- on the exterior, aren't the vast majority still in debranded on livery?

43074 · 16 Nov 2012

I notice non of the pics on GreaterAnglia complaints website show any of the refreshed 321/4s or 153s, which actually look quite smart. Also, how is this pic (http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8485/8182404990_2da0f9144e_z.jpg) of a relatively clean Class 90 hauling a uniform rake of Mark 3 coaches a GA fail?
Apparently, the GA 90s recorded more than 70,000 Miles per Technical Incident recently, according to a Rail magazine 'fleet news' story an issue or two back.

tbtc · 16 Nov 2012

Just an average guy, looking to make an improvement to the day to day travelling experience of the British public.

Not a troll who's registered a slightly biased URL to try to keep making the same points?

NXEA! · 16 Nov 2012

Things are far better under GA then they were under NX it has to be said. The 153's look very smart and are clean inside now, and the 156's are going to have DDA modifications, an interior refresh, passenger information systems fitted, and a repaint into GA White and red doors. The 170's are being cleaned for once, as are the 321's, perhaps the most neglected fleet! Considering GA have done this in 9 months with NX doing nothing in almost 8 years speaks volumes. The only things that could be bettered are a refresh of the 77 ex FGE 321's, the 21 360's and the Mark 3's! You can't ask for too much though.

Beveridges · 16 Nov 2012

Class 90s aging? They arent old for an electric loco, at least it wouldn't be if it was built properly. Several General Motors (in other countries) are still working reliably after 40 years.

Maybe GA should get some 142s & 150s to replace their 90 hauled Mk3s so passengers can enjoy some "newer" stock

It mentions delays and overcrowding as though its only GA that gets it due to its old stock - but you get the same on First Trans Pennine Express and they've got the newest stock on the network.

christopher · 16 Nov 2012

I'm sure that Greater Anglia could run the Orient Express and people would still moan! :roll:

Things have been a hell of a lot better since GA started for a start they're investing in stock (Deep Clean, PIS screens on 315's etc) which is far more than what NX would of done

ginger · 16 Nov 2012

wonderful comments which clearly show that Passengers (customers have a choice...most of us don't) come last in peoples opinions......if anyone finds this acceptable for 000s a year then they should hang their head in shame......

Lots of excuses about big fleets...old refurbs...zero cleaning and poor maintenance etc etc etc....but how about the 80,000 people who use these trains in the rush hour alone and pay for this COMMUTER railway.....all very well refurbishing the 153s/156s and all the stock that carries less than 5% of the customers but what about the majority of passengers? (remember the people paying the bills?) Other professional TOCs managing commuter railways into London manage it!!!

And let's look at the numbers! is this an unprofitable franchise? er no! According to the DFT it is the 2nd most profitable line in the UK for premium payments.......alas fact.....so we get taxed taxed and taxed again with zero investment which is desperately needed. Blame? Combination of the DFT and Abelio I am afraid....Abelio got greedy in the bidding! £15m a month in premium payments and zero investment? Even NXEA only ever managed £9m.....god overbid! Look at the WC debacle!

So under the new GA deal WE passengers are paying a 25% premium for lots of other lines to have decent professional TOCs who value their passengers/customers and at least clean the trains and not overbid and come up with excuses all the time!

GA 10x better than NXEA? Really? Maybe to work for but certainly not to travel with! WE the paying passengers certainly dont see any improvement after 9 months.....deep clean was a joke by the way! More pics to come.....keep watching!

Beveridges · 16 Nov 2012

Passengers do have choice - plenty of choice:

Train
Bus
Car
Cycle
Stay overnight in a Hotel near work to avoid commuting altogether
Transfer to an easier location to commute to (if the job allows - This is what I did when I was sick of commuting into Manchester)
Relocate
Walk (Yes I heard of someone who walks 10 miles to work if he has to come in when there are no trains running)

Plenty of choice really so I think the description "Customer" is accurate. Sometimes the alternatives are so bad compared to the train that the train seems like the only option, but some people don't even have a rail service and have to put up with those alternatives.

ginger · 16 Nov 2012

Beveridges said:
Passengers do have choice - plenty of choice:

Train
Bus
Car
Cycle
Stay overnight in a Hotel near work to avoid commuting altogether
Transfer to an easier location to commute to (if the job allows - This is what I did when I was sick of commuting into Manchester)
Relocate
Walk (Yes I heard of someone who walks 10 miles to work if he has to come in when there are no trains running)

Plenty of choice really so I think the description "Customer" is accurate. Sometimes the alternatives are so bad compared to the train that the train seems like the only option, but some people don't even have a rail service and have to put up with those alternatives.

all completely unrealistic for most people in North Essex....but as I said previously the majority of passengers seem overlooked by most people in this topic! Just cattle!

tbtc · 16 Nov 2012

ginger said:
all very well refurbishing the 153s/156s and all the stock that carries less than 5% of the customers but what about the majority of passengers? (remember the people paying the bills?)

Ah, so the passengers on the diesel lines don't count? Only passengers on your train matter? Only passengers on the EMU pay the bills?

ginger said:
under the new GA deal WE passengers are paying a 25% premium

I look forward to your detailed maths explaining this 25%

ginger · 16 Nov 2012

tbtc said:
Ah, so the passengers on the diesel lines don't count? Only passengers on your train matter? Only passengers on the EMU pay the bills?

I look forward to your detailed maths explaining this 25%

first point......yes they do but what about the majority? the commuters? 80,000 of them DAILY.....are there 80,000 people daily who use the local rural routes? No! The rural routes however are VERY important....my point is simple....for any TOC they are easy quick and cheap to deal with....I grew up on one of these lines.....love them....BUT it is the majority of commuters who pay the entire franchise....fact I am afraid......

Second point.......maths....very simple calculation.....NXEA (at the end of their tenure) turnover £500m per annum appx - premium payments £100m per annum......equals 20% profit for the DFT....not rocket science

Abelio? Estimated turnover £550m per annum.....mmmmm....simples maths with all the cost cutting leads to the logical DFT conclusion of 25% (possibly more...I was being generous to the DFT)....

When are we actually going to realise this is a vital public service, that passengers actually matter and standards need to come up to those of other professional TOCs in and around London? Why are passengers who pay 000s every years get treated like idiots?

Are the former NXEA / current GA staff standards that low? Take a look at SWT....SE....Southern.....Chiltern......TFL....FCC.....FGW....whilst they may all have gripes they are no where near as bad as the trains that WE have to put up with!

So, again, why on GA do Passengers / customers come last?

PS by the way according the the latest DFT figures GA are now in Cap and Collar.....11% behind revenue targets.....so the £420m PPs is beginning to look like another WC overbid fiasco aka WC!

jon0844 · 16 Nov 2012

The only thing important to you seems to be you. Plenty of people in Essex will use other means of transport so you really do talk nonsense. Most commuters are happy to commute or they'd do something about it. Perhaps you should too?

Or are you saying that the roads to London are empty as people are forced onto these old, dirty, trains you're now paying a 25% premium for?

HH · 17 Nov 2012

ginger said:
Abelio got greedy in the bidding!

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of greedy. AFAIK Abellio bid a very low profit margin and are not making even that. Probably making no money at all.

dk1 · 18 Nov 2012

HH said:
Perhaps you need to look up the definition of greedy. AFAIK Abellio bid a very low profit margin and are not making even that. Probably making no money at all.

Exactly. No shareholders to please so no problem

SprinterMan · 18 Nov 2012

dk1 said:
Exactly. No shareholders to please so no problem

Greater Anglia is as good as nationalised (albeit by the Dutch government), which is good as they are less likely to strip the franchise of anything good and just try and make money like NX did. Like when NX put aside £10mil. for the 321 refurbishment then took it as profit instead. Please ginger, they aren't the best TOC in the UK but they could be a helluva lot worse.

Adam

Not so Greater Anglia

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member