St Erth Park and Ride

Requeststop · 29 Jun 2013

Last Saturday, during my second UK rail trip this year, I took the chance to stop off at St Erth to see what was happening regarding the proposed St Ives relief Park and Ride development at St Erth. Not much to see so I went to the station office to ask.

I was told that they were waiting for agreement by all parties to the proposed disabled access from platform 1 and 2. When this is agreed then the car park will be extended eastwards towards the St Ives junction, and the old St Ival creamery will be demolished to make up to 700 spaces for cars to park and to help relieve St Ives from the car parking nightmare it presently has.

What will happen to Lelant Saltings? Apparently it will allowed to slowly run down. (Joy of Joys) and Lelant, (very biased here at it was my home station since the late 50's) will it loose its status as a request stop and get it's more regular service back? No answer.

I should add, that it is also proposed to extend platform 4 and to run services from both platform 3 and 4 as a shuttle to and from St Ives with some services calling also at Lelant and Carbis Bay. And as old and biased as I am, the ride on the line is still, after nearly 60 years, the best in our nation.

St Erth is the best of old GWR stations in Cornwall. A lovely station building, sparklingly clean toilets, a small and efficient ticket office, and a delightful café/shop with great prints of railways to view. However, the bridge between Platform 1 and 2 is getting a bit old and rusty and the station building roof on Platform 1 is also in need of attention.

I hope that any development of St Erth is in keeping with its lovely GWR design.

The photo's I have added were taken on a gloomy and drizzly Saturday, but I have to report that in St Ives, 3 miles to the north the weather was absolutely glorious. I hope you enjoy them.

RailUK Forums

edwin_m · 29 Jun 2013

Thanks for the info, this one does indeed seem to have gone a bit quiet.

I suspect (and this is just speculation!) that the delay may indeed be to do with preserving the heritage character of the station, and how to get step-free access without having a massive footbridge overshadowing everything. Unfortunately (going by Streetview) the existing underbridge appears to have only a very narrow footway so it wouldn't be possible to put wheelchair ramp up from here.

I hope the branch manages to retain decent connections, particularly to the east but also to Penzance, so that it serves the rail network as well as park and ride.

Greenback · 29 Jun 2013

Thanks for the update. St Erth is one of my favourite stations in England, it simply oozes with character!

Llanigraham · 29 Jun 2013

The access to Lelant Saltings car park is silly; why they allowed the houses to be built like that amazes me.
Last time we were down (in June) I forgot that Lelant wasn't always called at, but the train still stopped to pick me up.
Daughter has now moved to Carbis Bay but I haven't caught the train from there as we normally bring the 'van down and stay at Lelant Downs.
I've visited the Box at St Erth, but fear it hasn't long to live now. They have a very nice aquarium.

brillopad · 30 Jun 2013

Interestingly there is an easement that allows passengers from Truro and beyond to double back to St Erth from Penzance - presumably to facilitate disabled passengers wanting to get to St Ives.

Can't imagine why platform 4 would be needed for anything - the branch is at full capacity with two trains per hour as it is.

nanagrampy · 30 Jun 2013

In the summer, the trains are full almost every service. If they're going to build a larger car park at St Erth, they'll need to do some work to improve capacity. They could quite easily add an extra carriage or two and extend the platforms (at least at St Ives and St Erth). The line must be a gold mine for FGW, but unless they add more carriages, the service is going to become too busy and start losing customers.

Apart from this, it all sounded a good idea until I read the plans for Lelant Saltings. I guess they want to develop the site for housing? I don't know the number of parking spaces at Lelant Saltings but it seems that by replacing it with with St Erth, you're not adding that much capacity into St Ives: especially when you consider people will also use this station for Penzance and Truro(?). Why don't they keep Lelant Saltibgs and also build the facility at St Erth?

Requeststop · 30 Jun 2013

nanagrampy said:
In the summer, the trains are full almost every service. If they're going to build a larger car park at St Erth, they'll need to do some work to improve capacity. They could quite easily add an extra carriage or two and extend the platforms (at least at St Ives and St Erth). The line must be a gold mine for FGW, but unless they add more carriages, the service is going to become too busy and start losing customers.

Apart from this, it all sounded a good idea until I read the plans for Lelant Saltings. I guess they want to develop the site for housing? I don't know the number of parking spaces at Lelant Saltings but it seems that by replacing it with with St Erth, you're not adding that much capacity into St Ives: especially when you consider people will also use this station for Penzance and Truro(?). Why don't they keep Lelant Saltibgs and also build the facility at St Erth?

I believe that the County Council will put significant funding into the development and a large amount of money is also promised by the EU. I'm not too sure as to the plans for the Saltings. There may be local opposition to more housing as Lelant has grown significantly over the last 2 decades. Keeping the present Saltings development is difficult. Access to the Park and Ride facility is very difficult.

30907 · 30 Jun 2013

nanagrampy said:
In the summer, the trains are full almost every service. If they're going to build a larger car park at St Erth, they'll need to do some work to improve capacity. They could quite easily add an extra carriage or two and extend the platforms (at least at St Ives and St Erth).

Is the idea is to run a two-train service using 3 and 4 at St Erth alternately? - it would only improve the frequency slightly but there would always be a train ready to board at St Erth, a bit like Gatwick Express (as originally intended).

Not sure St Ives can be extended safely because the outer end is minimum width on a narrow site. It can take 6 cars according to the Quail plan (or whatever it's called now): I recall hearing of 5, but last time I was there midsummer it was only a 4-car.

edwin_m · 30 Jun 2013

If there was a bit of joined-up thinking they would move St Ives station back to its original site so the platform could be longer and the passengers would have less far to walk. This would involve reducing or removing the car park that occupies the old station site, which would be relocated to the park and ride to reduce congestion on the approach roads.

Greenback · 30 Jun 2013

edwin_m said:
If there was a bit of joined-up thinking they would move St Ives station back to its original site so the platform could be longer and the passengers would have less far to walk. This would involve reducing or removing the car park that occupies the old station site, which would be relocated to the park and ride to reduce congestion on the approach roads.

I feel that would be the best option, but it would add considerably to the costs. It was a mistake to convert the old station to a car park, and it would be logical to make it easier for people arriving by train to access the town, while at the same time removing parking from St Ives to encourage people to use the new park and ride facilities instead.

yorksrob · 30 Jun 2013

Whilst I agree that it's a shame that the platform isn't longer, I suppose that at least the car park makes it easier for locals to use the route in the other direction !

That is the only positive really! Of course, a smaller car park would serve the locals well enough, and there is plenty of room for a two platform station with long platforms and a car park for locals!

jopsuk · 30 Jun 2013

yorksrob said:
Of course, a smaller car park would serve the locals well enough, and there is plenty of room for a two platform station with long platforms and a car park for locals!

locals that aren't in walking distance (and most of the town is within walking distance- we're really talking those outside of St Ives) are surely as well going to one of the other stations. THe best thing for locals would be more through services to Penzance- for that you'd probably want operational double track through Long Rock into the station

yorksrob · 30 Jun 2013

I don't remember writing the second part of my previous post !

ANDYS · 30 Jun 2013

Just to add that my son and myself popped into the station on a number of occasions during our family holiday last year. Fantastic, friendly station with lots of character. I hope they can keep it that way.
Also excellent staff and once they knew my son was into trains they were a great help at helping us to see the fuel train that runs once a week. My son came home with not only his own photos but some that a very kind member of staff gave to him along with a DVD of his recent trip around Europe.
The station, staff and train crew on the branch line were a credit to FGW.

TEW · 1 Jul 2013

jopsuk said:
locals that aren't in walking distance (and most of the town is within walking distance- we're really talking those outside of St Ives) are surely as well going to one of the other stations. THe best thing for locals would be more through services to Penzance- for that you'd probably want operational double track through Long Rock into the station

Through services to Penzance was a priced option in the ITT for the aborted new franchise. It probably would require double track at Long Rock and it will also double the requirement for units. The service would require 4 150s in the Summer and there just aren't any extra units at the moment.

Requeststop · 1 Jul 2013

TEW said:
Through services to Penzance was a priced option in the ITT for the aborted new franchise. It probably would require double track at Long Rock and it will also double the requirement for units. The service would require 4 150s in the Summer and there just aren't any extra units at the moment.

The Park and Ride is not really expected to become a reality until the earliest summer 2015. No doubt there will be an enquiry to keep the NIMBY's quiet for a while too so maybe 2016?

Llanigraham · 1 Jul 2013

To be honest, road access to a P & R at St Erth will be better than at Lelant Saltings, which is what I suspect they are trying to do.
Probably put some traffic lights on the exit as well.

TEW · 1 Jul 2013

Requeststop said:
The Park and Ride is not really expected to become a reality until the earliest summer 2015. No doubt there will be an enquiry to keep the NIMBY's quiet for a while too so maybe 2016?

Through trains to Penzance would be very useful aside from the St Erth Park and Ride. The competing bus corridor is half-hourly from Penzance-St Ives. Not many people actually want to travel to St Erth so not having to rely on a connecting service to Penzance would be good.

Zoe · 1 Jul 2013

TEW said:
Through trains to Penzance would be very useful aside from the St Erth Park and Ride. The competing bus corridor is half-hourly from Penzance-St Ives. Not many people actually want to travel to St Erth so not having to rely on a connecting service to Penzance would be good.

If through trains were introduced though, could some St Erth calls end up getting removed from London trains in order to improve overall journey times from Penzance to London? It would increase journey times for anyone travelling from St Ives to London.

John R · 1 Jul 2013

nanagrampy said:
The timings are very tight on the line to maintain a 30 min frequency, particularly with large numbers loading or unloading at Lelant Saltings. Switching the P&R to the end of the line will mean that timings will become better as there will be one less stop with a long dwell time. Of course, the passengers still have to get on or off at St Erth, but this can be happening as the driver changes ends, so less of a time penalty, if any.

TEW · 1 Jul 2013

Zoe said:
If through trains were introduced though, could some St Erth calls end up getting removed from London trains in order to improve overall journey times from Penzance to London? It would increase journey times for anyone travelling from St Ives to London.

I doubt it, the numbers travelling all the way from Penzance to London are fairly low anyway. The loss of convenience for anybody travelling to St Ives from anywhere East of St Erth would outweigh any small time saving benefits I would have thought.

yorksrob · 1 Jul 2013

TEW said:
I doubt it, the numbers travelling all the way from Penzance to London are fairly low anyway. The loss of convenience for anybody travelling to St Ives from anywhere East of St Erth would outweigh any small time saving benefits I would have thought.

Indeed, by the time you've been on the train for the five and a half hours or so from Paddington, the stop at St Erth isn't going to make that much difference !

Be3G · 1 Jul 2013

Back when there used to be more direct trains from St. Ives to Penzance and vice versa I do actually recall making some London <-> St. Ives journeys by double-backing via the end of the mainline. I can't remember exactly what my reasoning was, but I think it might have been poor connections between the London and St. Ives trains at St. Erth so Penzance seemed a better place to wait (e.g. more facilities inside and outside the station).

This, by the way, is a fairly long time ago now something like 812 years. Thankfully the branch line service has improved considerably since then, but alas I haven't been down to Cornwall so much to make use of it.

edwin_m · 2 Jul 2013

yorksrob said:
Indeed, by the time you've been on the train for the five and a half hours or so from Paddington, the stop at St Erth isn't going to make that much difference !

Maybe so for Paddington, but it could be more significant for a nearer and probably more likely destination such as Truro.

Zoe · 2 Jul 2013

Be3G said:
I can't remember exactly what my reasoning was, but I think it might have been poor connections between the London and St. Ives trains at St. Erth so Penzance seemed a better place to wait (e.g. more facilities inside and outside the station).

I seem to remember the Regional Railways timetables in the early 1990s advising passengers for St Ives to travel via Penzance although I can't find any copies to confirm this.

edwin_m · 2 Jul 2013

I have a vague memory of something similar - I think it was related to the difficulty of carrying luggage over the footbridge from Down main line trains.

83G/84D · 3 Jul 2013

The last I heard the planned start date for work at St Erth was late summer for completion by Spring 2014. There will be a small car park and drop off / pick up point on the upside where the existing car park is and the main car parking area will be on the down side in a field where the Jehova's Witnesses building currently is.

It is not possible to safely walk under the rail bridge along the road so I heard that a new footbridge meeting all disability / safety requirements would be built.

I was also told Saltings station would not be closed completely but would retain a limited (parliamentary type) service. There is also a signal at the end of the platform so some sort of access would need to be retained to this. Years ago trains used to turn round at Lelant Saltings and return to St Ives so even if the station did completely close the platform might be retained with limited access.

I heard the platform there is second hand from the long closed Chacewater to Newquay line!

Signalling alterations and track improvements would have to be made if the siding at St Erth was to be used as another bay platform so not sure if this will happen.

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