I drive for a living in a job where I am pretty much up against the clock in a time pressured enviroment. I do not speed whatsoever as I think it doesnt help in getting you there any faster, all that behaviour does is upset other motorists & run the risk of getting points & fines. All I see these days are motorists on their phones, going round a roundabout without bothering to indicate or speeding in built up area's. I have no sympathy for those who break the law being punished.
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Speeding Offences
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For his kind of offence (driving at double the limit and over 100 mph) it comes under 'Grade C' where the fine can be around 3 times that average figure.
So how they get from circa £900 down to £85 suggests to me some very creative accountancy and richw hits the nail on the head.
I am aware of one self employed person who literally just pays for food and his tv licence, pretty much everything else is classed as a business expense. He even claimed the VAT back on the money he paid to the NEC for a pitch at the Classic Car Motor Show!
Zoidberg
Established Member
...
Thing is 41mph on the Radar would probably be approaching an indicated 50mph on the speedo
...
By law, a speedo is not permitted to read more than 45.1mph at an actual speed of 41mph - i.e. maximum over-read is 10%.
But 41 in a 30 is not clever, although I can think of a number of places where I wonder at the rationale for the limit being as low as 30.
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Butts
Veteran Member
The place he got caught was nowhere near a school , it was one of those areas that used to be 40mph but was reduced recently to 30mph.
I am not arguing he does not deserve to be punished, merely that a Fine and Points is a little excessive.
Perhaps it would be fairer if you got a £20 or £50 Fine for the first offence and escalate the amount for further violations.
It seems crazy that guy mentioned earlier doing 140mph on the A9 got an £85 Fine and The Community Service.
Is there a fixed scale for the fines, by the look of the above obviously not.
I am not arguing he does not deserve to be punished, merely that a Fine and Points is a little excessive.
Perhaps it would be fairer if you got a £20 or £50 Fine for the first offence and escalate the amount for further violations.
It seems crazy that guy mentioned earlier doing 140mph on the A9 got an £85 Fine and The Community Service.
Is there a fixed scale for the fines, by the look of the above obviously not.
In most areas it is plus 9mph now (i.e. 42)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13022347
However, Scotland does not offer the courses anyway.
There are guidelines - but if it's the case I saw, they were each fined £145, given suspended prison sentences, banned for 3 years and ordered to do 300 hours community service.
It doesn't seem unusual to have a reduced fine, or none at all, where other penalties are imposed instead.
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With all due respect the guy doing 140 should have been banned for life. Your son should have got what he got at least. I don't think your son should have got less because of someone else getting a ridiculously light punishment.
Butts
Veteran Member
As I mentioned before the further you are over the limit (within reason) surely the more benefit (in theory) you would receive from such a course. Do you have to pay for the course ? (silly question
)He is domiciled in The West Midlands.
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But do you feel £100 is a bit steep with 3 points as well - £50 sounds fairer to me.
As I mentioned before the further you are over the limit (within reason) surely the more benefit (in theory) you would receive from such a course. Do you have to pay for the course ? (silly question
He is domiciled in The West Midlands.
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But do you feel £100 is a bit steep with 3 points as well - £50 sounds fairer to me.
Mate you can pay much more than that for other offences that will definitely not cause anyone's death. Nothing against you or your son of course but people have to realise that driving is a privilege and not a right. We already have plenty of people still on the roads despite having killed people through being irresponsible. If anything the laws should be enforced more strictly and the penalties harsher if you are provably driving like a maniac, and plenty do.
Butts
Veteran Member
If they had a speed camera on most Motorways they could probably pay off the National Debt in a week
Do you have to pay for the course ? (silly question
My girlfriend got done for speeding recently and only last night signed up for a speed awareness course, it is £70.
She has yet to whine about getting the appropriate punishment for her offence though.
Butts
Veteran Member
If she takes the course are the fine and points nullified ?
transmanche
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No, I think the fine is far too low.
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The course is an alternative to taking the points.
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Butts
Veteran Member
What sum would you suggest ?
If they had a speed camera on most Motorways they could probably pay off the National Debt in a week
Yeah tell me about it. When I worked in Birchwood I got a lift there for a while off a fellow scouser, he was way over the speed limit in both directions, nearly got collared one day doing just over a tonne. Fortunately for him the police had other things on their mind. Thing is if you are doing 100 and suddenly come across someone doing 60 it is like doing 40 and suddenly noticing a brick wall in front of you, the lad driving slammed on and lost control. One of the scariest moments of my life. He was of course an excellent driver right until he f*cked up and over stretched himself.
transmanche
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For driving at more than 10mph over the 30mph limit? I would start at £300. Plus the points, of course.
For a first time offence, I'd consider halving the fine... if the driver went on a speed awareness course (at their own cost). Serial offenders, would have the fine doubled.
She was doing 37 in a 30 zone.
It was 3 points and £100 fine. If she completes the course, within 28 days, there is no fine or penalty points.
http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/new...ivers_aware_of_Helston_road_speed_limit_cut_/
Apologies I can't copy and paste the article due to technical issues, this article may be of interest though ref 40 limit to 30
Butts
Veteran Member
That sounds far more sensible - is there really a huge difference in absolute terms between 37 and 41 mph
transmanche
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But there has to be a cut-off somewhere...That sounds far more sensible - is there really a huge difference in absolute terms between 37 and 41 mph
Serial offenders I would ban for life. My father who has driven for 45 years without a single point on his license is proof it is possible.
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That sounds far more sensible - is there really a huge difference in absolute terms between 37 and 41 mph
I may be wrong but doesn't the injury cause increase exponentially with speed. Perhaps the fine should as well.
David
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Is that the case where there was 2 of them in close company, both doing 145 (ish) mph? If so, then they both got suspended sentences as well.
Puffing Devil
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So much misinformation in one place.... Let me try and put the record straight.....
You do not get a Community Penalty and a fine. It does not happen. If you are prosecuted in court you will normally pay Costs and a Victim Surcharge, in addition to either a fine or a community penalty. You may also pay compensation. It is quite often misreported as a "fine".
Costs for motoring matters run at around £60.
Victim Surcharge is 10% of a fine, minimum of £20, max £120. Or £60 if you get a community penalty (Work, Curfew, etc.). £80 if you are lucky enough to get a suspended sentence.
If you attend court you need to complete a means form. Fail to do that and the court will assume a weekly income of £400. The minimum level of income assumed is £110 - even if not earning or on benefits. The income on the means form is used to set the fine.
Fines relate to your weekly income and come in Bands: A=50% of income, B=100% of income and C=150% of income. For speeding you will be fined A or B. Plead guilty at the first appearance and you'll get a 1/3 discount.
You cannot get a Community Penalty for simply speeding. However - if your speed is so great, or your driving so poor, you may be prosecuted for Careless or Dangerous driving - hence the outcome for the 140mph hero above.
If you want to know what the bands are, have a look at the actual guidelines used in the court. They are available to all and can be seen here.. Speeding is on Page 131.
There is a fixed scale for fines, and dangerous driving. See the link above
If you opt for a speed awareness course you have not yet been prosecuted. The police have 6 months from the date of the offence to issue a summons. If you do not complete the course by the deadline set by the police, and it will be within 6 months, then you will go to court. Complete the course and the matter is done with. No prosecution, no record, nothing to tell the insurers. Unless they ask about courses.
There is no Band C for for speeding - check the guidelines. There never was £900 due. The guy was prosecuted for Careless or Dangerous driving.
See above - it's Suspended Sentence + Surcharge + Costs, not a fine. (It is possible to attach conditions, such as Work or a Curfew to a suspended sentence. Breach that and you're straight inside).
You do not get a Community Penalty and a fine. It does not happen. If you are prosecuted in court you will normally pay Costs and a Victim Surcharge, in addition to either a fine or a community penalty. You may also pay compensation. It is quite often misreported as a "fine".
Costs for motoring matters run at around £60.
Victim Surcharge is 10% of a fine, minimum of £20, max £120. Or £60 if you get a community penalty (Work, Curfew, etc.). £80 if you are lucky enough to get a suspended sentence.
If you attend court you need to complete a means form. Fail to do that and the court will assume a weekly income of £400. The minimum level of income assumed is £110 - even if not earning or on benefits. The income on the means form is used to set the fine.
Fines relate to your weekly income and come in Bands: A=50% of income, B=100% of income and C=150% of income. For speeding you will be fined A or B. Plead guilty at the first appearance and you'll get a 1/3 discount.
You cannot get a Community Penalty for simply speeding. However - if your speed is so great, or your driving so poor, you may be prosecuted for Careless or Dangerous driving - hence the outcome for the 140mph hero above.
If you want to know what the bands are, have a look at the actual guidelines used in the court. They are available to all and can be seen here.. Speeding is on Page 131.
There is a fixed scale for fines, and dangerous driving. See the link above
If you opt for a speed awareness course you have not yet been prosecuted. The police have 6 months from the date of the offence to issue a summons. If you do not complete the course by the deadline set by the police, and it will be within 6 months, then you will go to court. Complete the course and the matter is done with. No prosecution, no record, nothing to tell the insurers. Unless they ask about courses.
There is no Band C for for speeding - check the guidelines. There never was £900 due. The guy was prosecuted for Careless or Dangerous driving.
See above - it's Suspended Sentence + Surcharge + Costs, not a fine. (It is possible to attach conditions, such as Work or a Curfew to a suspended sentence. Breach that and you're straight inside).
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The 2 lads were actually racing on the A19 in North Yorkshire unless theres been 3 serious speeding cases this week.The other which no one has mentioned was one of Her Majestys Finest taking a prisoner up the A1 in a BMW X5. The prisoner asked him how fast the X5 could go so he showed him.140 was the answer then the prisoner reported him at Darlington police station and he's had his wrists slapped and not allowed to drive police vehicles for the time being.talk about 2 sets of rules. Dont know the full story but its in The Northern Echo if someone wants to find the link.I'll give you some sympathy Butts.To many people on here lead totally blameless lives and having seen what traffic cops get up to over the years i have no time for them.
Given speedos over read, usually by 3-4mph, he's lucky he wasn't actually doing the 45mph indicated on his speedo!!
RichmondCommu
Established Member
So why do you think that the speed has recently been reduced from 40mph to 30mph? My guess is that it's an accident black spot. Not only that but when the authorities amend the speed limit on a particular stretch of road they do all that they can to notify road uses. No excuses!
No they don't notify the road users when reducing to 30, see my link earlier in the thread, if they reduce to 30 and the Lamp posts are present it is illegal for them to erect notices of the reduced speed limit.
Wasn't the law changed for this? So as to allow repeater signs in 30mph areas? I thought that was an aim some time ago.
I do agree that in the 90s when the Gatso cameras were introduced, an awful lot of roads saw speed limits cut. I'm rather cynical and unconvinced that all of them were accident blackspots, and in any case, you should design out blackspots not just change a limit and hope.
We even had a new road open not too far from us with cameras on them!
I do agree that in the 90s when the Gatso cameras were introduced, an awful lot of roads saw speed limits cut. I'm rather cynical and unconvinced that all of them were accident blackspots, and in any case, you should design out blackspots not just change a limit and hope.
We even had a new road open not too far from us with cameras on them!
transmanche
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
The amount of damage increases as the square of the speed, but beyond a certain level the person hit is equally dead regardless of the damage casued. This threshold depends on various things but is typically in the region of 35mph - so yes doing 40mph in a 30mph zone could make all the difference in the event of an accident. Higher speeds also make accidents more likely because there is less time available to stop or avoid when becoming aware of a potential accident, and other road users may not anticipate a vehicle travelling at a speed well over the limit for that road.
Remembering of course that in any of these events the driver is likely to get away with cuts and bruises if that.
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This argument was extensively used about a local blackspot, the Manor Park Bends between Ilkley and Burley. Highly articulate and well co-ordinated campaign by the residents of Manor Park asking to straighten the A65 (which had been a blackspot since before most moved in) across unsuitable marshy land. Funnily, none of the campaigners pointed out that the work would add on average £200,000 to the value of each affected property. Instead, cameras and calming measures installed. No longer blackspot.
Like the Bingley by-pass, which from day one was seen as a racetrack by the local boys. Sensible move.
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