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Notice of fine & Collection order

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najaB

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No it will not. I was told this by a police officer - he would need either (1) evidence from a second officer or (2) evidence from a speed gun.
As I understand it - and I'm happy to be corrected - hand held speed guns aren't linked to a camera so it would be impossible to provide that evidence. As such, I don't believe that what you were told is 100% correct.

You don't happen to be from Scotland, by any chance, where the rules on corroboration are different to the rest of the UK?
 
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island

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No it will not. I was told this by a police officer - he would need either (1) evidence from a second officer or (2) evidence from a speed gun.

The evidence from a speed gun being that the constable says he pointed the speed gun at the defendant's vehicle and it said...

Last I checked speed guns don't have little till roll printers to issue dockets saying what speed was recorded.
 

talltim

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If what the OP says is true, the RPI was either lying or misheard and then refused to back down. It might across better to push the second explanation.
 

jkdd77

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Since this is a byelaw 18 (and 23) prosecution, the question of short-faring is not relevant.

In relation to byelaw 18, and again assuming that Mossley had no purchase facilities at the time of travel, the prosecution must essentially prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that the OP boarded at Ashton.

The OP will presumably present sworn direct testimony, under oath, that he boarded at Mossley, perhaps supported by indirect circumstantial evidence such as evidence of car parking, past journeys, and local residence.

Northern will presumably present the RPI's sworn testimony that the OP said he boarded at Ashton. This is merely second-hand evidence, since the RPI did not see the OP board. Furthermore, the RPI could well have misheard, and indeed it would be possible, from the point of view of the bench, that the OP boarded at Mossley but mistakenly (or otherwise!) claimed to have boarded at Ashton (perhaps attempting to short-fare?), which would still leave him not guilty of the specific byelaw 18 offence as charged.

I find it difficult to see how a properly directed bench could be sure beyond reasonable doubt that the OP boarded at Ashton. Even if they think he asked from a ticket from Ashton, this still does not prove he boarded at Ashton. He/ she may have boarded at Mossley and attempted to short-fare, which would leave him guilty of other, more serious offences, but not the specific byelaw 18 offence of which he/ she is charged.

In my opinion, the OP is more likely to be found guilty of the (less serious) byelaw 23 offence than the byelaw 18 offence. If the OP is considering pleading guilty to only one charge, then, IMO, it should be 'NG' to byelaw 18 and 'G' to byelaw 23.

However, if the OP, upon seeing his/ her solicitor to make the SD, was able to get advice as well, he/ she should probably follow that advice, which may well include not making posts on a public internet forum.
 
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najaB

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Since this is a byelaw 18 (and 23) prosecution, the question of short-faring is not relevant.
True. But it doesn't change the fact that the crux of the matter is a mismatch between where the OP says they boarded where the RPI's report says that they boarded.
In relation to byelaw 18, and again assuming that Mossley had no purchase facilities at the time of travel, the prosecution must essentially prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that the OP boarded at Ashton.
That the OP attempted to purchase a ticket from at Ashton - thereby claiming to be guilty of the Byelaw 18 offence.
I find it difficult to see how a properly directed bench could be sure beyond reasonable doubt that the OP boarded at Ashton. Even if they think he asked from a ticket from Ashton, this still does not prove he boarded at Ashton. He/ she may have boarded at Mossley and attempted to short-fare, which would leave him guilty of other, more serious offences, but not the specific byelaw 18 offence of which he/ she is charged.
I return to the point I made earlier - it is possible that the TOC is relying on more than just the RPI's report because, as you point out, it isn't strong evidence in and unto itself of a Byelaw 18 report. What that other evidence could be is left as an exercise for the reader.
 

Shempz

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I return to the point I made earlier - it is possible that the TOC is relying on more than just the RPI's report because, as you point out, it isn't strong evidence in and unto itself of a Byelaw 18 report. What that other evidence could be is left as an exercise for the reader.


Or it could be that the TOC has offered no other evidence whatsoever to the court, except for the RPI's statement.
 

najaB

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Or it could be that the TOC has offered no other evidence whatsoever to the court, except for the RPI's statement.
Naturally. That is what the the OP needs to take into consideration if they decide to plead not-guilty after making a statutory declaration.
 
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