Any LUL train operators who can explain the radio? And more...

elmjuniper · 21 May 2017

Hi there!
I hope I'm not double posting, I've searched the forum and not found anything yet about the radio used on a LUL train.

I'm currently writing a book about a LUL train operator and was wondering if anyone knows anything about the radio in the driver's cab? And what sort of language is used when communicating with Control (if that's what it's called).
I've watched several videos on YT, but no one mentions how this all works. I drive the tube in Sweden, but I'm not sure the same terminology and etiquette are used when using the radio.

So basically my questions are:
1. How does the radio work? Can everyone hear everyone (all other drivers) on the radio?
2. What sort of terminology is used to communicate with Control (that's what we call the radio control center)?

I pretty much want to pick any LUL train operator's brain or anyone with this knowledge.

Hope I make sense!

RailUK Forums

Mojo · 21 May 2017

It really depends on the line's custom and practice and the individual controller on duty as to how they communicate. There's the option of a one-to-one call or a broadcast over the open channel. Messages sent over the open channel normally you can only hear one side of it (ie. what the controller is saying). If a driver wants to speak with controller or signal operator then they press a button in the cab and when the controller calls them it will be on a one to one. Drivers can broadcast on the open channel too, but unless they are replying to a call to that train most controllers will usually ignore it.

Daniel · 22 May 2017

Mojo has covered most things, only thing I'll say is controllers don't ignore calls on the open channel, it's just often they don't hear them. Unless the controller has the radio headset to his or her ear at that moment it's difficult to hear from the speaker in an open control room at a moment you're not expecting a radio call.

Terminology it's the usual, over, out, etc, but the specifics are down to the driver and controller - everyone has different quirks, as long as safety critical information is passed accurately and in accordance with the rule book it's fine.

elmjuniper · 22 May 2017

Thank you both so much for your replies!
They were truly helpful and really she light on this for me.
It sounds like it is indeed similar to here.

So, can control see all of the underground or is it like here where each line has their own?

Also thanks to the admin who moved this and I apologise for posting it in the wrong place.

Dstock7080 · 22 May 2017

elmjuniper said:
So, can control see all of the underground or is it like here where each line has their own?

Most Lines has its own control room although the Metropolitan/H&C-Circle (Hammersmith-Aldgate) are combined, signal operators can sit in another room or signal cabin.

Cab based Connect radio permits direct calls to Line Controllers, Signal Operators, depot shunters/control towers; calls to any handheld radio; calls to any base station (station/booking on point); calls to any LU automatic telephone; calls to any other operative train cab; messaging system between Connect units; emergency one-touch call.

elmjuniper · 22 May 2017

Dstock7080 said:
Most Lines has its own control room although the Metropolitan/H&C-Circle (Hammersmith-Aldgate) are combined, signal operators can sit in another room or signal cabin.

Cab based Connect radio permits direct calls to Line Controllers, Signal Operators, depot shunters/control towers; calls to any handheld radio; calls to any base station (station/booking on point); calls to any LU automatic telephone; calls to any other operative train cab; messaging system between Connect units; emergency one-touch call.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.

Sounds similar to over here then.

LU_timetabler · 18 Aug 2017

Emergency one-touch call, otherwise known as the MayDay button. In the control room this call goes to the top of the controller's screen, flashes red and sounds a VERY nasty sounding buzzer, rather than a sound that is more akin to a normal telephone if it is a normal call from an operator. I've been lucky enough to be observing in the Control Room of the Piccadilly Line during 2 major incidents. When the Mayday call happens, the Service Manager is also alerted and joins the Line Controllers in the Control Room. The Line Controllers in this situation would speak to the driver with the Mayday on one to one and all other trains by general call - (takes valuable time to tap in their number.) The Service Manager would be co-ordinating with the on-site incident response on a separate radio channel, and relay any critical instructions / info to line controllers. During this time it is all about listening - since there are 2 line controllers on shift and only 1 can make a radio call at a time, the other may be on the phone to signallers or listening to the Service Manager's call to find out what is going to happen next. This is a classic time of when having all the signallers and the line controllers in the same control room really helps. Because if a line controller wants to re-route a train he needs to tell driver and signaller separately. If the signaller is in the room, he can tell the driver on the radio and the signaller will hear and not need to be told separately. LU are working towards getting all line signalling and line control into one place (at least for each line, if not whole network).
Each line is controlled separately from its own control room, except for over-laps. For instance Picc controllers can see District trains when the District trains are in their area of control (Hammersmith to Ealing Broadway). Metropolitan Control see Picc trains when the Picc trains are on Metropolitan tracks between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge.

Standard operation - all drivers calling in must state their train number and location / direction of travel. They will then be asked by the controller to state their message. There are then various phrases for certain specific scenarios that are covered in the driver / controller rule book. Ignoring these details can result in misunderstandings and thus in accidents. So ignore the rules and be too informal at your own peril.

bluegoblin7 · 19 Aug 2017

LU_timetabler said:
Emergency one-touch call, otherwise known as the MayDay button. In the control room this call goes to the top of the controller's screen, flashes red and sounds a VERY nasty sounding buzzer, rather than a sound that is more akin to a normal telephone if it is a normal call from an operator. I've been lucky enough to be observing in the Control Room of the Piccadilly Line during 2 major incidents. When the Mayday call happens, the Service Manager is also alerted and joins the Line Controllers in the Control Room. The Line Controllers in this situation would speak to the driver with the Mayday on one to one and all other trains by general call - (takes valuable time to tap in their number.) The Service Manager would be co-ordinating with the on-site incident response on a separate radio channel, and relay any critical instructions / info to line controllers. During this time it is all about listening - since there are 2 line controllers on shift and only 1 can make a radio call at a time, the other may be on the phone to signallers or listening to the Service Manager's call to find out what is going to happen next. This is a classic time of when having all the signallers and the line controllers in the same control room really helps. Because if a line controller wants to re-route a train he needs to tell driver and signaller separately. If the signaller is in the room, he can tell the driver on the radio and the signaller will hear and not need to be told separately. LU are working towards getting all line signalling and line control into one place (at least for each line, if not whole network).
Each line is controlled separately from its own control room, except for over-laps. For instance Picc controllers can see District trains when the District trains are in their area of control (Hammersmith to Ealing Broadway). Metropolitan Control see Picc trains when the Picc trains are on Metropolitan tracks between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge.

Standard operation - all drivers calling in must state their train number and location / direction of travel. They will then be asked by the controller to state their message. There are then various phrases for certain specific scenarios that are covered in the driver / controller rule book. Ignoring these details can result in misunderstandings and thus in accidents. So ignore the rules and be too informal at your own peril.

Interesting contradiction.

Any signaller (or any other member of staff for that matter) worth their salt (and who values their job) will insist on getting crucial safety critical messages passed by the controller over a recorded line even if they are sitting next to each other. It covers the backs of all involved if an action is questioned down the line.

I am also intrigued about what this 'driver/controller' rule book you speak of is?

DownoSignalman · 25 Aug 2017

bluegoblin7 said:
Interesting contradiction.

Any signaller (or any other member of staff for that matter) worth their salt (and who values their job) will insist on getting crucial safety critical messages passed by the controller over a recorded line even if they are sitting next to each other. It covers the backs of all involved if an action is questioned down the line.

I am also intrigued about what this 'driver/controller' rule book you speak of is?

Absolutely. Recorded line always.

Any LUL train operators who can explain the radio? And more...

elmjuniper

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RailUK Forums

Mojo

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Daniel

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elmjuniper

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Dstock7080

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elmjuniper

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LU_timetabler

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bluegoblin7

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DownoSignalman

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