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Split operator service (Manchester to Barrow/Glasgow)

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Agent_Squash

Agent_Squash

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Hi,

Was travelling back up to Cumbria today, where it appears a new split at Preston has been created. The train from Manchester Airport arrives at 1359, and the front section (operated by TPE) goes to Glasgow Central, while the back section (operated by northern) goes to Barrow in Furness. Is there any reason for this rather interesting splitting pattern?
 
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Starmill

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http://www.brtimes.com/#!train?uid=Y04663&date=20170603&back=#!board?stn=PRE&date=20170603&show=dep

That's... odd. It doesn't tell us what the other portion is. I think it's an error. I have seen this before but I can't remember where.

http://www.brtimes.com/#!train?uid=...board?stn=PRE&filt=BIF&date=20170603&show=dep

It appears the service does not run with two portion IDs, and the Northern service to Barrow-in-Furness just starts at Preston.

An oddity of the hired-in Class 185 stock at Northern.

Interesting that the Glasgow service has to go non-stop from Preston to Carlisle - presumably a consequence of the extra wait to detach at Preston and the slower acceleration of diesels.
 
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driver9000

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That service has run for a few years previously being Transpennine throughout on both portions. It is shown as a Glasgow/Barrow from Manchester. The inward working is a Windermere/Glasgow which attaches at Preston.

None of the portion worked trains run with 2 numbers when they're together.
 
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Galvanize

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Noticed at Preston last September on my way back from Blackpool, the sharing of traincrew to work services...TPEx Class 350 arrived from Glasgow heading towards Manchester Airport. TPEx Guard handed over to a Northern one to work the train onward from there. I'm guessing the Northern guard must have been a former TPEx employee based at Blackpool North who was TUPE'd to Northern in 2016?
 
driver9000

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Galvanize said:
Noticed at Preston last September on my way back from Blackpool, the sharing of traincrew to work services...TPEx Class 350 arrived from Glasgow heading towards Manchester Airport. TPEx Guard handed over to a Northern one to work the train onward from there. I'm guessing the Northern guard must have been a former TPEx employee based at Blackpool North who was TUPE'd to Northern in 2016?
Click to expand...

Correct although Northern no longer work TPE services. Blackpool and Barrow crews were transferred to Northern but there is a handful of Northern services crewed by TPE.
 
Starmill

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Galvanize said:
I'm guessing the Northern guard must have been a former TPEx employee based at Blackpool North who was TUPE'd to Northern in 2016?
Click to expand...

I believe so, but I think the practice only lasted for a year after the change.
 
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enrag2000

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driver9000 said:
That service has run for a few years previously being Transpennine throughout on both portions. It is shown as a Glasgow/Barrow from Manchester. The inward working is a Windermere/Glasgow which attaches at Preston.

None of the portion worked trains run with 2 numbers when they're together.
Click to expand...

I was on 1M94, the Glasgow-Manchester train, a few Saturdays ago, which was well-filled being a 185. At Lancaster it was mobbed by people mainly going to Manchester most of whom could not find a seat. At Preston, it was joined to the train ex-Windermere 1N27 which had arrived a few minutes earlier so most of the Lancasters changed to the other unit. It occurred to me that the Windermere portion would have been announced at Lancaster as for Preston whereas if it had been announced as for Manchester it would have made everyone's journey more comfortable.
 
driver9000

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enrag2000 said:
I was on 1M94, the Glasgow-Manchester train, a few Saturdays ago, which was well-filled being a 185. At Lancaster it was mobbed by people mainly going to Manchester most of whom could not find a seat. At Preston, it was joined to the train ex-Windermere 1N27 which had arrived a few minutes earlier so most of the Lancasters changed to the other unit. It occurred to me that the Windermere portion would have been announced at Lancaster as for Preston whereas if it had been announced as for Manchester it would have made everyone's journey more comfortable.
Click to expand...

Yes that is frustrating and bizarre at Lancaster which has long announced one half of a train that will be join with the following one at Preston as not being a Manchester service. The PIS on the trains would also bill it up as a Preston service. I can only assume it's to avoid confusion for passengers with seat reservations who might end up in the wrong portion and cause delay at Preston. That's just a guess on my part though.....
 
D6975

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YorkshireBear said:
So Northern and TPE run joint services which split? I assumed this had ended...
Click to expand...
I don't think this is the case.
What is happening is that some 185s are hired out to Northern.
An individual 185 doesn't necessarily spend the whole day on hire though.
So it could be on a TPE service, get detached and thenceforth be on hire to Northern. Similarly, one on a Northern turn can terminate and then come off hire and work a TPE service.
 
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jopsuk

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In the past during engineering there have been attempts at running GC and Hull services joined to share a path, with the primary issue being the unreliability of 180 coupling especially when not used for ages
 
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Greybeard33

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D6975 said:
I don't think this is the case.
What is happening is that some 185s are hired out to Northern.
An individual 185 doesn't necessarily spend the whole day on hire though.
So it could be on a TPE service, get detached and thenceforth be on hire to Northern. Similarly, one on a Northern turn can terminate and then come off hire and work a TPE service.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe the joined train between Preston and the Airport counts as a TPE service operated by a TPE crew. Northbound a Northern crew takes over the rear portion at Preston and it becomes the Northern service to Barrow. Southbound the Northern service from Windermere terminates at Preston and the TPE crew takes over the front portion for the onward joined working to the Airport.

According to journey planners the journeys between the Airport and Barrow/Windermere require a same platform change at Preston.
 
driver9000

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randyrippley said:
Why are they not joined at Lancaster?
Click to expand...

Easier to do at Preston and it's where the crew will change (although there is nothing to stop a few change at Lancaster). Preston is also better to hold the train if one portion is delayed without studying the job up.
 
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