theageofthetra
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A bit conservative with the 90 on many London routes
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Passenger information: the railway needs to catch up
- Thread starter Bletchleyite
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R
RailUK Forums
Rubbish!
There is no reason why the railway cannot keep people more informed using current technology.
Firstly, I will I declare a conflict of interest here as my job is a Head of Innovation and Future.
With the advent of the Internet of Things, there is no excuse for things not being interconnected. The railway generates a huge amount of data, it is just they have not had the will to exploit that data for to improve the customer expereince.
Technology currently allows us to send push notifications to smart phones advising passengers on platforms of delays, reverse formation, As well as informing pre-booked tickets of any changes that may affect their journey.
There is even technology available that can be fitted to trains that would allow messages to be sent to phones whilst on-board to advise of broken toilets, offers on the buffet trolley, delays and the such like.
The privatised railway does not encourage Innovation, due to the short term nature of franchises, although Network Rail is adressing this with the Digital Railway initative.
If you could see the technological advances that are currently being worked on outside of the railway, you will realise just how far behind they are in the digital revolution.
There is no reason why the railway cannot keep people more informed using current technology.
Firstly, I will I declare a conflict of interest here as my job is a Head of Innovation and Future.
With the advent of the Internet of Things, there is no excuse for things not being interconnected. The railway generates a huge amount of data, it is just they have not had the will to exploit that data for to improve the customer expereince.
Technology currently allows us to send push notifications to smart phones advising passengers on platforms of delays, reverse formation, As well as informing pre-booked tickets of any changes that may affect their journey.
There is even technology available that can be fitted to trains that would allow messages to be sent to phones whilst on-board to advise of broken toilets, offers on the buffet trolley, delays and the such like.
The privatised railway does not encourage Innovation, due to the short term nature of franchises, although Network Rail is adressing this with the Digital Railway initative.
If you could see the technological advances that are currently being worked on outside of the railway, you will realise just how far behind they are in the digital revolution.
I completely agree with you - I've just been travelling by rail in Germay and it's embarassing just how good their provision of basic information is. Right from how long the train is, whereabouts on the platform to wait for first or second class, and then station announcements, details about live running and push notifications about platform changes etc. for tickets I'd purchased through the DB app.
Back to the UK and in many cases I've no idea whereabouts on the platform to wait, PIS are often incorrect and don't keep up with platform changes or still show a train long after it's left. Stations like Birmingham New Street are confusing even for a seasoned rail traveller like me because they talk about first class being at the front of the train on arrival but don't say which way it will arrive and the platforms there don't have marked sectors A, B, C etc. so I've still no idea whereabouts on the platform to wait.
We can surely do a lot better that we currently do?
Yes certainly room for improvement. On more than half of the journies this year I've made on Advance tickets at least one of the booked trains haven't actually run at the times booked. In no case have any of the TOCs bothered to contact me to let me know (having got my email address when booking). It does make a bit of a mockery of the rule that the ticket is valid only on the trains shown on the ticket, when there aren't now trains at those times. Airlines always inform passengers if the times of a booked flight changes (in fact, I think they are required to?) it should not be hard for TOCs to do so as well.
Also need to sort out the mess of the displays that show the next 3 trains when there is major disruption. What usually happens is they show the first 3 trains (often meant to have come some times ago) as "Delayed". But because they have run out of room if a train does arrive and it's not one of those delayed trains they don't appear on the screen so you have to hope someone is making announcements to tell you where the train that has arrived is actually going to. Sometimes it has been left to the guard to shout where the train is going and calling.
I can also remember when my commute used to take me to Waterloo East that if there is a delay the display would usually show the train as "On Time" until it was 1 minute late. Then it would become 2 minutes late and then every 2 minutes the displays would just add another 2 minutes to the "Expected" time until the train actually arrived. I suspect the system was aware that the train was at Charing Cross (2 minutes away) but did not know when it was actually going to leave.
Interestingly I noticed at a few GWR stations in Devon recently, a displayed had been installed on some of the platforms which was basically the diagrams from the signal box, with the train head codes displayed showing where they are. They had "Staff Use Only" written on them but useful if you know the head-code of your train you can see exactly where it is! I have seen a similar display at Kings Cross too, but that one has been there for years.
Also need to sort out the mess of the displays that show the next 3 trains when there is major disruption. What usually happens is they show the first 3 trains (often meant to have come some times ago) as "Delayed". But because they have run out of room if a train does arrive and it's not one of those delayed trains they don't appear on the screen so you have to hope someone is making announcements to tell you where the train that has arrived is actually going to. Sometimes it has been left to the guard to shout where the train is going and calling.
I can also remember when my commute used to take me to Waterloo East that if there is a delay the display would usually show the train as "On Time" until it was 1 minute late. Then it would become 2 minutes late and then every 2 minutes the displays would just add another 2 minutes to the "Expected" time until the train actually arrived. I suspect the system was aware that the train was at Charing Cross (2 minutes away) but did not know when it was actually going to leave.
Interestingly I noticed at a few GWR stations in Devon recently, a displayed had been installed on some of the platforms which was basically the diagrams from the signal box, with the train head codes displayed showing where they are. They had "Staff Use Only" written on them but useful if you know the head-code of your train you can see exactly where it is! I have seen a similar display at Kings Cross too, but that one has been there for years.
Also I don't like the change at the displays at some South West Trains station which are now changed to show "Stand clear, this train is ready to leave" about 1 minute before the train is actually due to leave, so you can no longer see where it is going.
Some stations take a train off the boards 1 or 2 minutes before departure to stop last minute runners, but it doesn't really work at some locations. In some cases it can make things worse as someone holds the doors while shouting to anyone to tell them where it is going.
Dr_Intoxicated
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Excellent post, nice to see such a positive attitude for a change from negative winging.
Dougal2345
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I'm also not sure why they are changing the platform displays, at Southampton Central for example, from the very clear LED ones that have been there for many years, to ones with smaller text that I find far more difficult to read from any distance...
Looking at my phone's text history, I see one from Virgin informing me that my train is ready on platform 3 (this was just last week). The technology is there, but I obviously had given my details when I bought my Advance ticket. If I'd just had an open ticket, I wouldn't have got the reminder.
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A while back I met the Innovation Team at DB, they are a very switched on team and working on some exciting projects.
Surely a lot of this relies on members of the public giving their mobile number to the TOC, many people will not wish to do this, if you have bought a ticket on line, they will indeed have your email, and could send info this way, OK if you catch it before you leave home, either that or read it when you get back.
As for being on train and having info directed to your mobile, fine if you have bluetooth on maybe, not everyone has, or even wants heaps of apps on a mobile phone.
Sort out the information we have on stations and on trains first, then maybe filter it down to mobiles.
Surprising how many think that having everything done via apps/email/online is the be all and end all, but then will moan when booking offices shut, and guards disappear as surplus to requirements.
As for being on train and having info directed to your mobile, fine if you have bluetooth on maybe, not everyone has, or even wants heaps of apps on a mobile phone.
Sort out the information we have on stations and on trains first, then maybe filter it down to mobiles.
Surprising how many think that having everything done via apps/email/online is the be all and end all, but then will moan when booking offices shut, and guards disappear as surplus to requirements.
Controller1701
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So your train gets shown with a delay of 30 minutes so you then go to Starbucks on the High Street, during that time your train makes up 10 (by any means available to it) and as the new driver is booked to pass on that train they are already in the new cab as the train rolls in and so is ready to depart 22 minutes after the booked departure time, so the train then departs with a delay of 23 minutes, you then return 29 minutes after the booked departure to find the train now well on the return journey?
Paul
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Quite, but it seems some members here are incapable of seeing that view and want everything to work on the mobiles.
How many more times does it need to be said: not everyone is connected all the time, not everyone has a smart phone.
Fine put the info in that system, but it cannot and should not be the only way, as is being implied here.
Only some things here rely on mobiles being used passengers.
The bigger issue actually relates to collecting and collating existing data, then displaying it more efficiently.
Currently there's a lot of information that is only being delivered by some channels, so there are people who aren't getting it; railway staff especially, but also that example passenger without access to the app or who can't see the twitter feeds.
By improving the overall flow of information, you can both have better information at the platform screens and automatically notify other customers about delays on their pre-booked tickets.
It's not either/or, it's both
The bigger issue actually relates to collecting and collating existing data, then displaying it more efficiently.
Currently there's a lot of information that is only being delivered by some channels, so there are people who aren't getting it; railway staff especially, but also that example passenger without access to the app or who can't see the twitter feeds.
By improving the overall flow of information, you can both have better information at the platform screens and automatically notify other customers about delays on their pre-booked tickets.
It's not either/or, it's both
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Platform screens could show more information. Perhaps not all screens, but they could be replaced with screens that could (I do think some stations went backwards with some replacement displays that had smaller text and less overall space for scrolling or fixed text).
When someone buys a ticket online, they could be invited to opt in to alerts for a chosen service - or to check on demand (for open tickets). That app could then have proper notifications, so you get something popping up on your lock screen or on your smartwatch.
Those who don't want to, or don't have the technology, can ignore. And said technology doesn't mean we ditch the idea of giving information on platforms.
Despite often carrying two or even three connected devices with me when out, I do get a little upset when I see screens reporting issues and telling customers to find out more on the website. What's wrong with using screens there?
What's wrong with dynamic poster boards that can relay information? Some TOCs seemed to dabble with touchscreens but they've all but gone, so I assume they didn't work or were a trial that didn't work out?
And as tickets get printed with Aztec codes on them, imagine if you could scan that into a rail app to get information about that journey with no logging in or entering to/from. Your GPS location could make sure information was accurate even if you're part way on your trip and took a break of journey.
Given the value of 'big data' and the ability for TOCs to get information on where passengers are, I'm surprised they haven't jumped at the chance to engage more with passengers on their journeys. Perhaps the day after a trip you can ask how things went? If people have an account, you'll know if they do a trip regularly or infrequently.
You can offer discounts or other incentives, or process delay repays more quickly..
The opportunities are endless and nearly all of the necessary tech is already there and working right now.
When someone buys a ticket online, they could be invited to opt in to alerts for a chosen service - or to check on demand (for open tickets). That app could then have proper notifications, so you get something popping up on your lock screen or on your smartwatch.
Those who don't want to, or don't have the technology, can ignore. And said technology doesn't mean we ditch the idea of giving information on platforms.
Despite often carrying two or even three connected devices with me when out, I do get a little upset when I see screens reporting issues and telling customers to find out more on the website. What's wrong with using screens there?
What's wrong with dynamic poster boards that can relay information? Some TOCs seemed to dabble with touchscreens but they've all but gone, so I assume they didn't work or were a trial that didn't work out?
And as tickets get printed with Aztec codes on them, imagine if you could scan that into a rail app to get information about that journey with no logging in or entering to/from. Your GPS location could make sure information was accurate even if you're part way on your trip and took a break of journey.
Given the value of 'big data' and the ability for TOCs to get information on where passengers are, I'm surprised they haven't jumped at the chance to engage more with passengers on their journeys. Perhaps the day after a trip you can ask how things went? If people have an account, you'll know if they do a trip regularly or infrequently.
You can offer discounts or other incentives, or process delay repays more quickly..
The opportunities are endless and nearly all of the necessary tech is already there and working right now.
For things like toilets out of order or anything useful to know in advance, if the train manager on such a service is aware of this, would it be possible for that train manager to send a message to stations en-route, and then a loudspeaker announcement made to passengers at those stations?
If you choose to leave the station and the train makes up time then that's your problem. If a train hasn't left Stafford then there is no way it can be in Crewe in 15 mins. I could have had 2 cups of coffee on the station in that time.
Truly(as said upthread)
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Although not on the railway, I am currently working on a project that will totally replace customer facing staff with AI.
I foresee a time in the not too distant future where there are no human staffed booking offices at all (maybe with next 10 years)
If you look at the likes of IBM Waton or Amazon Web Services, the technology is there waiting to be deployed, I recently witnessed a demostration of AI carrying out open heart surgery and they have also trained AI as a lawyer who has already one court cases in the USA.
With all the advancement in Artifical Inetlligence, programming machine learning to sell a ticket from Euston to Birmingham is one of the easiest things to do.
I would rather that people on stations were paying attention to what is going on around them rather than plugged in to their mobile phones - and shut off from the real world!
They need to be thinking of the people flowing around them and where they actually need to be, rather than what has just been posted by a friend on facebook (or some such mindless crap.) Private Eye had a great cartoon a few years ago with a moron walking along looking only at their phone and saying something like "I've got this brilliant app: It tells me where to put my feet!"
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Oh look another scheme to make people redundant!! Great NOT!!
Llanigraham
On Moderation
And what happens to disabled people unable to use technology?
hock:
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
There would need to be a custom edition of the AI to replace the staff in Blackpool North
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
You could say all those things about Easyjet but that doesn't prevent it from being a good idea.
Here's a thought, you could even announce the content of the message at stations or on the train as appropriate - at the right time of course.
EM2
Established Member
They couldn't be checking for and reading relevant information on their company-issued mobile phone, of course.
EM2
Established Member
We often read on this forum that there are too many announcements, and they're not important, and we don't need them all.
So why are spoken announcements irrelevant, and written announcements relevant?
So why are spoken announcements irrelevant, and written announcements relevant?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Because getting a text or an email isn't as annoying as hearing announcements (often broken or over a bad PA). One you can opt into and the other you can't.
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