Is It Time To Lock People On Trains?

whhistle · 3 Mar 2018

Yet another story of people releasing doors and walking down the tracks.

Is it time to stop the ability to open doors like this from the inside so this can't happen?
Yes, I understand fire, this and that, but it's almost becoming normal for people to do this.
Perhaps needs a couple of people to die right there on the tracks before the public realise this isn't a good idea - no matter what the customer thinks.

RailUK Forums

richa2002 · 3 Mar 2018

No, of course not. They simply take their choice and accept the consequences.

farleigh · 3 Mar 2018

Of course that is not a good idea. As above, adults should make correct choices. If not, there is a consequence.

Gemz91 · 3 Mar 2018

whhistle said:
Yet another story of people releasing doors and walking down the tracks.

Is it time to stop the ability to open doors like this from the inside so this can't happen?
Yes, I understand fire, this and that, but it's almost becoming normal for people to do this.
Perhaps needs a couple of people to die right there on the tracks before the public realise this isn't a good idea - no matter what the customer thinks.

Almost becoming normal? How many examples of this do you know of where it has happened this year?

416GSi · 3 Mar 2018

No. A few reasons,

Issues of this kind are rare, why make the procedures even more complicated than they are all ready.

People need release the emergency exit mechanism to release the doors anyway. If there was an accident and someone got killed because they had no exit the railways would be in real trouble from a legal health and safety perspective and the press would have a field day.

In my view the railways have got it about right, that said sometimes there is nothing to be done about the stupidity of a small minority of people.

Skymonster · 3 Mar 2018

whhistle said:
Perhaps needs a couple of people to die right there on the tracks before the public realise this isn't a good idea - no matter what the customer thinks.

Perhaps needs a couple customers to die while confined on a train before the industry really attempts to understand what drives people to such desperate measures as getting off a train between stations and actually does more to rescue them?

MP33 · 3 Mar 2018

The RAIB report into the Abergele accident in the 1840's gives reasons why it is not a good idea to lock passengers in. Although wooden rolling stock and steam traction played its part.

Via Bank · 3 Mar 2018

whhistle said:
Yet another story of people releasing doors and walking down the tracks.

Is it time to stop the ability to open doors like this from the inside so this can't happen?
Yes, I understand fire, this and that, but it's almost becoming normal for people to do this.
Perhaps needs a couple of people to die right there on the tracks before the public realise this isn't a good idea - no matter what the customer thinks.

No.

These are human beings and paying customers.

If you don’t want people to self-evacuate, don’t keep a crowded train stopped for three hours with no toilets or heating - ESPECIALLY not in an urban area within a few yards of a station.

This forum never ceases to amaze me.

Daz28 · 3 Mar 2018

Via Bank said:
No.

These are human beings and paying customers.

If you don’t want people to self-evacuate, don’t keep a crowded train stopped for three hours with no toilets or heating - ESPECIALLY not in an urban area within a few yards of a station.

This forum never ceases to amaze me.

The first person to self-evacuate didn’t wait an hour.

amcluesent · 3 Mar 2018

Why not release clouds of sedative gas in the carriages just to be sure that pax won't interfere with the smooth running of the railways?

ComUtoR · 3 Mar 2018

Via Bank said:
No.

These are human beings and paying customers.

If you don’t want people to self-evacuate, don’t keep a crowded train stopped for three hours with no toilets or heating - ESPECIALLY not in an urban area within a few yards of a station.

This forum never ceases to amaze me.

When you self evacuate. Don't then blame the TOC for the problems that then arise. Which came first. The evacuation or the three hour wait. It was already highlighted in a different thread which came first.

Ash Bridge · 3 Mar 2018

Perhaps it's time to make an example with some of these selfish irresponsible idiots, after all there is plenty of footage readily available to recognise who they are?

Dhassell · 3 Mar 2018

Ash Bridge said:
Perhaps it's time to make an example with some of these selfish irresponsible idiots, after all there is plenty of footage readily available to recognise who they are?

I read a news article earlier with BTP stating that some of those who bailed could be facing criminal procedures, but even then, I expect they will be let off lightly.

GatwickDepress · 3 Mar 2018

Good Point said:
Why not release clouds of sedative gas in the carriages just to be sure that pax won't interfere with the smooth running of the railways?

Reminds me of the opening scenes to Battle Royale. Perhaps we should sedate one trainload of passengers a year and have them fight to the death on a tropical island somewhere in Berkshire. Winner gets a free Network Railcard.

Ash Bridge · 3 Mar 2018

Dhassell said:
I read a news article earlier with BTP stating that some of those who bailed could be facing criminal procedures, but even then, I expect they will be let off lightly.

Sadly I too wouldn't be at all surprised if that turned out to be the case.

yorkie · 3 Mar 2018

No it is clearly not a good idea. It's not going to happen.

And self-evacuations are not that common either.

robbeech · 3 Mar 2018

ComUtoR said:
When you self evacuate. Don't then blame the TOC for the problems that then arise. Which came first. The evacuation or the three hour wait. It was already highlighted in a different thread which came first.

The almost an hour wait in a cramped heating stuck on full environment with zero communication from the driver not far from a station came first.
Then the self evacuation.
Then the 3 (actually 5) hour wait.
Then the egg.
Then the chicken.

theironroad · 3 Mar 2018

416GSi said:
People need release the emergency exit mechanism to release the doors anyway. If there was an accident and someone got killed because they had no exit the railways would be in real trouble from a legal health and safety perspective and the press would have afield day.

In my view the railways have got it about right, that said sometimes there is nothing to be done about the stupidity of a small minority of people.

Well they better not use most London tube trains as they have no ability to open the doors from inside in an emergency.

Bromley boy · 3 Mar 2018

robbeech said:
The almost an hour wait in a cramped heating stuck on full environment with zero communication from the driver not far from a station came first.
Then the self evacuation.
Then the 3 (actually 5) hour wait.
Then the egg.
Then the chicken.

Unfortunately the first egress was after more like one hour. This then led to the switch off and the resulting 3-5 hour wait, with the knock on of further egresses.

EDIT - sorry re-reading, you’ve acknowledged that. I would still say the first egress was unreasonable, after an hour stuck on a heated, lit train with driver able to make announcements.

I can understand people exiting cold/dark trains when incommunicado much more.

Antman · 3 Mar 2018

Ash Bridge said:
Perhaps it's time to make an example with some of these selfish irresponsible idiots, after all there is plenty of footage readily available to recognise who they are?

How selfish irresponsible and idiotic was it not to want to be stuck in a train going nowhere in the freezing cold? Think again!

GW43125 · 3 Mar 2018

theironroad said:
Well they better not use most London tube trains as they have no ability to open the doors from inside in an emergency.

You can climb out of the “door of death” or where the stock doesn’t have one, you can get out through the cab.

If you’re going to hold people in a sealed, cramped metal box without aircon for any length of time, you deserve it when they bail on you.

Has anyone ever passed out on a train stuck somewhere?

TheEdge · 3 Mar 2018

Good Point said:
Why not release clouds of sedative gas in the carriages just to be sure that pax won't interfere with the smooth running of the railways?

I've been suggesting that for years. Sounds like the perfect solution. My TOC don't agree for some bizarre reason.

3141 · 3 Mar 2018

theironroad said:
Well they better not use most London tube trains as they have no ability to open the doors from inside in an emergency.

And in most tube tunnels there's no space for people between the train and the side of the tunnel if they did open the doors.

Via Bank · 3 Mar 2018

Daz28 said:
The first person to self-evacuate didn’t wait an hour.

Well, an hour on a packed train with no toilets is still not really acceptable. Especially so close to the station.

If you're at a stage where your customers want to self evacuate, you're letting them down. End of. Sorry.

robbeech · 3 Mar 2018

I appreciate that the PA system needs electricity and after the batteries run out this will not work but on at least one of the trains (and if we believe people on Twitter some others too) there were no announcements in the first hour or so whilst power was still on. Whether this is the driver not making them or a faulty pa* we do not know but either way passengers like to be informed.

*i’ve said it on here before that many units leave the depot with faulty pa systems. I’ve been told that this is NEVER possible as it is not allowed and I must be wrong, by people who do not seem to travel on those trains.

Lucan · 3 Mar 2018

MP33 said:
The RAIB report into the Abergele accident in the 1840's gives reasons why it is not a good idea to lock passengers in.

I immediately thought of the Armagh disaster of 1889 https://everipedia.org/wiki/Armagh_rail_disaster/ in which there would have been time to evacuate the passengers if it were not for the fact there was only one key (and no staff to spare) to open all the doors. I understood that in the light of disasters such as these it was made illegal to lock passengers in with no means of escape, and IMHO it would be insane otherwise.

Antman · 3 Mar 2018

Dhassell said:
I read a news article earlier with BTP stating that some of those who bailed could be facing criminal procedures, but even then, I expect they will be let off lightly.

Do you really think anybody is going to be prosecuted?

Harbornite · 3 Mar 2018

A better idea would be to lock the trains BEFORE any passengers board. All passengers seem to do is cause trouble...

ianBR · 3 Mar 2018

It should not take three hours to evacuate trains that are within walking distance of station platforms. Some of the reports are truly shocking. A 75 year old woman being forced to urinate in front of everyone on a packed train with no toilets.

If passengers were given regular updates of what was happening and could see that action was being taken I doubt they would find it so necessary to self-evacuate. Surely after one hour of a train being stuck in central london it should be possible to line up an evacuation with local station staff.
Clearly things would happen more quickly if the train was filling with smoke and the industry clearly doesn't appreciate how horrific conditions are onboard packed commuter trains when things go wrong.

pemma · 3 Mar 2018

whhistle said:
Is it time to stop the ability to open doors like this from the inside so this can't happen?
Yes, I understand fire

Do you? As you realise fire can prevent staff from reaching a certain part of the train or making announcements which are heard by passengers in that part, you seem to be suggesting it's OK for passengers in that part of a train to suffer serious consequences including death because in some rare instances passengers have self evacuated when it's not appropriate to do so. Would you think it's OK for a member of on board staff to put in a situation where they might die just to make an example if one or two guards hadn't been following safety procedures correctly?

Is It Time To Lock People On Trains?

On Moderation

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member