Passengers abandon train at Lewisham with 3rd rails still live.

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by theironroad, 2 Mar 2018.

  1. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43266245
    _100258775_de27.jpg

    Apparently this train was held here for 3 hours.

    I imagine it's a DOO service but after an hour a controlled evacuation should have been authorised with the necessary switch off and block. It's perfectly understandable why people are going to jump out so close to the platform.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 3 Mar 2018
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  3. joncombe

    joncombe Member

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    A 376. DOO and no toilet. Not going to be good after 1 hour let alone 3.
     
  4. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    They’ve only been on the move 20 minutes or so. It’s closer to 5 hours.
     
  5. SF-02

    SF-02 Member

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    Indeed. Over an hour with no lights, heating or toilets on a packed 376 train (pics show packed trains as SE only running 2 an hour in peak instead of 8) is likely to cause medical difficulties with at least 1 person requiring attention, let alone 3 hours.
     
  6. Mike99

    Mike99 Member

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    was it 2K43 involved at Lewisham?, 17.19 Hayes to London Cannon Street. Arrived at 18.41, 57 minutes late and departed 22.01, 255 late.
     
  7. EonLeader

    EonLeader New Member

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    If it was heading into platform 4 as pictures appear to demonstrate, that'd be a Dartford train. Would hazard a guess that 2M48 (maybe 2M50) started it looking at (limited) reports
     
  8. KingJ

    KingJ Member

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    I think it was 2M48 - stuck just after Lewisham. 2M50 was then stuck just before Lewisham - pictured in #766. 2S54 was on the Tanners Hill Flydown and the rear was foul of the points - blocking 2R46, 2H50 etc from going down the fasts to Orpington. Attached was how things were looking at 18:29.

    (This is all just based off looking at the signalling maps across the evening and various pictures on Twitter though, I could be totally wrong).
     

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  9. 2HAP

    2HAP Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43266245

    Any complaints about the poor standard of journalism should be directed to the BBC. "Train tracks" FFS.
     
  10. John Bray

    John Bray Member

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    I guess that's one of the problems of building the new Tanners Hill link, it couples the slows and fasts so any Lewisham problems stop the mainline. Could the signallers have sent 2554 down the slow from LBG, or increased the spacing so it wouldn't attempt the fouling move? How reluctant are signallers to send trains to the wrong destinations if their route is likely to be blocked for some time?

    I reckon mainline passengers would be fuming to be delayed by problems advertised at a station they bypass.
     
  11. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

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    Clearly this was exceptionally dangerous with the live rail. It's easy to blame the passengers for their stupidity and putting their lives at risk, but why did the train company think that it was acceptable, sensible or safe to leave them there for THREE HOURS just yards from the station?
    What a poor way to treat your passengers
     
  12. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Unfortunately, whilst in these cases the railway knows very well what the risks are, there may be tens of stranded trains, all loaded with fed up punters who might bail out. Until it happens, it's impossible to know where to send your limited resources and start evacuating. It's a very troubling situation, but difficult to know what the answer is frankly.
     
  13. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    But what else could be done? It's stuck, in foul weather on congested infrastructure, so there's little chance of anything turning up to give it a push. As for getting pax off, this was I presume a DOO train? A small team of people are required to safely evacuate a loaded train, the Driver can't do it on his own. Indeed Driver and Guard is still pushing it for a controlled situation. Station staff are usually not PTS, and they certainly won't have been trained for a lineside evacuation, so despite their proximity in this case, they're not much good. So you're looking at NR staff, on-call managers, BTP etc, and of course they're all already running around like the proverbial chickens. So, what can you do really?!
     
  14. MP33

    MP33 Member

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    On the BBC news this morning they announced that they would be speaking on the telephone to someone from Maidenhead who was on the train behind. I thought why would they be passing through Lewisham at that time of evening. They quickly corrected the BBC by stating that they live in Maidstone.

    Well done BBC, you might get something right one day.
     
  15. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Anyone know how much communication there was with the stranded passengers - announcements, frequent updates etc.
     
  16. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Good grief..........shocking!!
     
  17. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Very little it seems as apparently the PA was inoperable so passengers relied on twitter.

    In fairness I can't really see what more Southeastern could have done in the circumstances?
     
  18. Kettledrum

    Kettledrum Member

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    It seems that rescue services turned up very quickly once the passengers started walking down the line. Why weren't they alerted sooner?
     
  19. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    Again, because until then it wasn't an emergency? There were probably numerous stuck trains at various times over the past few days, they can't attend them all just in case!
     
  20. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Police turned up to maintain order but I don't know about rescue staff?
     
  21. Nevasleep

    Nevasleep Member

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    If Southeastern, Network Rail, or BTP couldn't get any resources or a plan together in South London within hours, then fair enough.
    However no heat, lights, toilet, or communication for three hours, but yards from the station in an urban area, I can't blame the passengers either.
     
  22. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    What; do you mean before they evacuated the train ?
     
  23. Daz28

    Daz28 Member

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    2M48 left Lewisham at 1734 and got stuck just outside the station a few minutes later.
    SE twitter reported at 1813 that passcom activated on one of the trains stuck
    They were tweeting from 1820 that engineers were en route to get the train moving
    First reports of passengers self evacuating at 1840
    Once the power was off, that led to more delays and more people making their own exit.

    Whilst it is true that some people were stuck for three hours or more, the facts are the first selfish person to exit was only after an hour, and that then caused the next two to three hours of delays. It will be interesting to hear how much on train communication there was.
     
  24. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    I would like to know if the GSMR was working. If even the PA failed it's possible.
     
  25. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    If the PA had failed, none.
     
  26. BestWestern

    BestWestern Established Member

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    I think they have their own battery...
     
  27. Via Bank

    Via Bank Member

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    I don’t think some people really understand that a passenger railway is transporting humans, not inert robots.

    Three hours, yards from a station, is bound to cheese some people off. Three hours with no toilets is going to result in someone needing to go. At three hours with no light or heat in this weather, on an apparently crowded train, it's a miracle there were no major medical emergencies. I've seen one report on Twitter from a lady who used a towel to hide the fact she was having a panic attack from other passengers (because hysteria is contagious.)

    It's all well and good to say "it's dangerous" and "it's illegal," but if they think they might be in for an overnight stay on a packed train with no toilets or heat a la the New Forest incident, can you blame them? Especially if they were told the power was off because people were walking on the tracks - meaning they knew it was safe?

    I know I sound like a stuck record but this keeps happening, and the relevant parties need to get their acts together and understand that in situations like this, people will self-evacuate.
     
  28. Bromley boy

    Bromley boy Established Member

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    This is it basically.

    From watching the incident unfold on Open Time Trains last night there were three trains stuck in the immediate Lewisham area (one was thankfully in the station at p1).

    All SE metro trains are driver only and have no gangway connection between units. Once the juice is switched off the emergency batteries will last 30-45 mins and best practice is to cut the unit out before these are exhausted (otherwise it may be impossible to cut back in). Cold and dark, no PA announcements, and stories on the news about passengers being stuck over night on a train the previous day. I can see why people might have been tempted to take matters into their own hands (not that I would ever condone egressing).

    There were also at least two trains stuck between London Bridge and Lewisham. I’ve seen pictures of some passengers self-evacuating at north Kent east junction, which is some way up the line from Lewisham, near new cross. This is what would have buggered the job completely as it prevented anything moving on the mainline, otherwise it *might* have been possible to bypass the problems at Lewisham by sending trains down the mainline.

    I’d imagine the juice being switched off in this area is also why it wasn’t possible for some trains to head back wrong road to London Bridge.
     
  29. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Ours do not. As evidenced by the Chilleham incident. There is a battery backup option that may be installed but TOCs were given an option to have it at an additional cost.
     
  30. amcluesent

    amcluesent Member

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    Indeed. It is inevitable, same as it won't be long before drivers simply go past police who have closed a motorway for hours because there's a person standing a bridge parapet.
     
  31. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Again WHO agreed to this and signed it off. Utter madness.
     

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