Snow Service Changes 25/02/18 onwards.

[GodAtum]

The advice is not to travel at all but obviously people need to get home from work.

Moaning? I don't think I'd be too impressed at being stuck at Lewisham for hours would you?

I'm still stuck at work as no trains going home. Luckily office is open 24/7 so just ordered pizza delivery and going to sleep at my desk.

 

[ainsworth74]

Posts regarding converting 3rd rail areas to OHLE can be found in a new thread here.

 

[Bromley boy]

I don't think I'd be too impressed at being stuck at Lewisham for hours would you?

Suddenly makes a night in the New Forest sound rather appealing !!!

 

[joncombe]

Rail replacement is out of the question as they have said it's to dangerous (Even though Megabus are able to run) but I had no idea about their charter. Have you got a link to it?

Yes, see https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...29-passengers-charter---september-16---lr.pdf

Specifically, it says this

Where a delay or cancellation of a Virgin Trains East Coast service makes it impossible to get you to your destination at a reasonable time, either by train or alternative transport, we will:
• arrange for you to return to where you started your journey, or another appropriate location, and ensure that you can travel again the next day, or
• provide overnight accommodation and ensure that you can travel the next day.

 

[cuccir]

(Even though Megabus are able to run)

Are Megabus really running north? The A1 remains closed. I guess they can go A69 > M74. I think in extreme circumstances buses tend to be more resilient than trains.

I do wonder if Virgin West Coast will be running tomorrow - the WCML is now out of the weather warnings, at least north of the Midlands. I presume ticket acceptance is flexible so it may be possible to get to Scotland from Newcastle via Carlisle on Saturday.

 

[Antman]

Suddenly makes a night in the New Forest sound rather appealing !!!

Indeed........those SWR passengers don't know how lucky they were

 

[The Box Photter]

Indeed........those SWR passengers don't know how lucky they were

PAX are more likely to detrain themselves when they can see a station very close to where they're stranded or they're in an urban area.

 

[KingJ]

Cheers

And of course the drivers and guards! Not an easy night for anyone involved.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Well they didn't even mention accommodation when I arrived at Newcastle, I had to do that myself. I'll be going to the train station and quizzing them on this.

 

[Mag_seven]

And of course the drivers and guards! Not an easy night for anyone involved.

And NR staff trying to clear the line and dealing with infrastructure faults etc!

 

[SF-02]

So much for all the advice not to travel after 1800. Plenty of people hanging around in London for their evening **** up. No doubt there will be moaning galore if any get stranded on their way home.

The people stuck 6 hours later left London way before 6pm. Trains that left about 4:30pm to 5pm were those stuck

 

[IanXC]

Nearly all of the Birmingham-Hereford services have been cancelled this morning, though I notice some services towards Birmingham have been diverted after Droitwich to run via Kidderminster. Unlike normal diversions however, the trains aren't then using Smethwick West Jct to access New St, but are continuing towards Snow Hill (see 1M55 is pic below). Does anyone know if the services in the reverse direction are operating on a similar principle — I need to use the service later ideally so any info would be appreciated?

I suspect this is just about moving the absolute minimum number of sets of points, but very interesting diversion it makes for!

Are the same planners that would be working on the very late May timetables also the ones now distracted this week trying to rebuild a snow service?

Nah these kinds of timetable amendments will be being created by Control functions rather than Planning functions.

 

[robbeech]

SE related : They’re certainly not winning. Unfortunately it comes across (and I’m sure it’s not true) as if the social media team (bless em) are just saying things for the sake of saying things.
Incorrect times and destinations. Incorrect train movements. Two have gone backwards etc. Saying they’re all moving where one still doesn’t have power. All faith was lost hours ago and it is now likely impossible for them to get it back. Really feel for them but they are far from blameless.

 

[muz379]

SE related : They’re certainly not winning. Unfortunately it comes across (and I’m sure it’s not true) as if the social media team (bless em) are just saying things for the sake of saying things.
Incorrect times and destinations. Incorrect train movements. Two have gone backwards etc. Saying they’re all moving where one still doesn’t have power. All faith was lost hours ago and it is now likely impossible for them to get it back. Really feel for them but they are far from blameless.

Probably because control are making minute by minute amendments in collaboration with network rail , the information is then first passed to front line staff to action it before social media teams even get a look in

 

[ComUtoR]

And of course the drivers and guards! Not an easy night for anyone involved.

Thanks

There are a lot of people involved in trying to get trains and passengers home. It's a nightmare for everyone. It's been a mixed bag for all of us. I had a superb response from a Signaler the other day. I personally helped out and run an additional service (over my hours) One of our Performance investigators helped resource Drivers to pull the service back together, our DMs have been helping out. Platform staff have been clearing the snow from platforms with many working additional hours and more staff doing more jobs that I can mention.

 

[KingJ]

And NR staff trying to clear the line and dealing with infrastructure faults etc!

And the BTP, Police, Fire Service and Ambulance Service. With how the incident eventually developed it seems many groups ended up getting involved. It seems like everyone was trying to do their best in what was quite a difficult situation - misinformation and confusion are inevitable when so many trains are stranded and completely blocking one of the major commuter routes out of London.

(Any extra groups i've missed who might have been involved? I really don't mean to leave off any credits!)

I wonder what the chances of a RAIB report in to tonight's incident might be? It has a lot of similar themes to the Dock Junction/Kentish Town incident - trapped passengers, lack of functional onboard facilities, communication difficulties, passenger self-evacuation... albeit across even more trains this time than the Dock Junction/Kentish Town one.

 

[Starmill]

Are Megabus really running north? The A1 remains closed. I guess they can go A69 > M74. I think in extreme circumstances buses tend to be more resilient than trains.

I notice that NX have availability from Carlisle to Glasgow at 1605 on Saturday.

 

[KingJ]

Thanks

There are a lot of people involved in trying to get trains and passengers home. It's a nightmare for everyone. It's been a mixed bag for all of us. I had a superb response from a Signaler the other day. I personally helped out and run an additional service (over my hours) One of our Performance investigators helped resource Drivers to pull the service back together, our DMs have been helping out. Platform staff have been clearing the snow from platforms with many working additional hours and more staff doing more jobs that I can mention.

As a SE passenger, I do really appreciate the effort you've all put in this week, along with all the other groups involved too - it's been a tough fight against the elements and I think a lot of people were expecting the service to end up much worse than it did - so thanks again to everyone involved for their efforts. Tonight's incident alas seems to be one that has just spiraled beyond anyone's control. I'm sure there's still things that could have gone 'better' in hindsight and that will feed in to lessons learned for the future, but I don't doubt that everyone involved was at the time making decisions that they thought were the best at that time with the information they had.

I was lucky enough to be able to work remotely this week, aside from one essential trip in to London that I had to make earlier in the week (it was quite a surreal experience getting the very lightly loaded 00:26 from London Bridge on 28/02/2018 and being the only passenger to get off at Tonbridge!). There's a few gripes I might have with SE as a whole, but I can't say i've ever really had a negative experience with the staff on the ground!

 

[muz379]

I notice that NX have availability from Carlisle to Glasgow at 1605 on Saturday.

Of course taking your money and telling you that they are going to get you there is different from actually getting you there

 

[CarlSilva]

It isn't that surprising is it?

There are extensive reports in the media of passengers being stranded overnight for many hours.

So choices:

1) Listen to railway company, I might still be there tomorrow
2) Exit the train, at least I'm not stuck and can maybe get home some other way.

It's probably not the correct view, but I can see the logic.

Yeah, same here.
I just seen the bbc news report avout it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43266245

Passengers jump onto Lewisham train tracks after delays

Southeastern rail services were disrupted after passengers grew frustrated at delays in south London, and began walking down the tracks.

Trains in Lewisham were held up after a passenger pressed the emergency button and got off when their train was held outside a station.

Several people then followed suit, causing the police to be called for assistance.

Southeastern said passengers could have been killed on the live tracks.

The company asked passengers to remain onboard.

Passengers complained of being cold, tired and stranded for up to three hours on a broken down train without heating, lights or use of the toilet, before fleeing through an emergency exit.

"Southeastern Railway has called in help from the police and fire service after frustrated passengers on four trains in Lewisham, south London left the carriages and started walking down the tracks", a spokesman for the company said.

"There are currently severe delays to trains in the Lewisham area following a serious trespass incident.

"We've had to turn the power off for safety reasons, and staff are currently working to clear the trespassers from the tracks so that we can get trains moving again.

"We completely understand that passengers on delayed and busy trains may be frustrated, but they simply must stay on the train for their own safety.

"These trespassers risk being electrocuted by the 'third' rail or hit by other trains. They're also causing significant further delay for other passengers that our staff are working hard to get home."

British Transport police said it had "all available officers and emergency response teams deployed to help evacuate passengers on the trapped trains in the Lewisham and surrounding areas."

Mick Cash, leader of the Rail, Maritime and Transport union said its members were out "working in appalling conditions on our railways and they deserve nothing but total respect and support."

"Tonight's incidents have once again raised some serious issues about the capacity of Britain's railways to cope with added pressures from adverse weather."

PAX are more likely to detrain themselves when they can see a station very close to where they're stranded or they're in an urban area.

That's seems to have be what happened.

 

[muz379]

South western railway apparently shut down as of 20:50

https://twitter.com/nationalrailenq/status/969676285218869249

#UKSnowGTR - SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY HAVE CLOSED FOR THE DAY DUE TO THE EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS. SOUTHERN, THAMESLINK AND GATWICK EXPRESS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCEPT SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY TICKETS.

20:50 - 2 Mar 2018

Really do think in situations like this mutual ticket acceptance should be in place

 

[theageofthetra]

And the BTP, Police, Fire Service and Ambulance Service. With how the incident eventually developed it seems many groups ended up getting involved. It seems like everyone was trying to do their best in what was quite a difficult situation - misinformation and confusion are inevitable when so many trains are stranded and completely blocking one of the major commuter routes out of London.

(Any extra groups i've missed who might have been involved? I really don't mean to leave off any credits!)

I wonder what the chances of a RAIB report in to tonight's incident might be? It has a lot of similar themes to the Dock Junction/Kentish Town incident - trapped passengers, lack of functional onboard facilities, communication difficulties, passenger self-evacuation... albeit across even more trains this time than the Dock Junction/Kentish Town one.

Were the brakes locked on?

 

[theageofthetra]

Yeah, same here.
I just seen the bbc news report avout it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43266245




That's seems to have be what happened.

Don't blame them at all. I hope the driver involved is getting the support they deserve too.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does anyone know how many snow-ploughs there are for Network Rail to use?

According to the 2017 Combined Volume ( 2018 is published but I haven't got it yet ) there are:

* 20 Independent Drift Ploughs - these are the big ones converted from steam locomotive tenders.

* 8 Beilhack Ploughs - these are the ones converted from class 40 bogies.

* 2 Snowblowers.

So 30 in total, but that doesn't mean all of them are serviceable.

 

[Class172]

I suspect this is just about moving the absolute minimum number of sets of points, but very interesting diversion it makes for!

I imagine that was certainly a contributory factor, given I think the night before the points/signals at the southern end of the single line section between Droitwich and Stoke Works failed. Later in the day outbound services resumed from New Street, via Stourbridge - for a number of services I observed this created a rather unusual circular diagram (ECS from Tyseley - New St - via Stourbridge Jct. - Droitwich Spa - ECS via Tunnel Jct. - Droitwich Spa - via Stourbridge Jct. - Snow Hill - ECS to Tyseley).

As it turns out, I never got to use the train as by 1800 all the lines to Worcester had been closed, so I now await the resumption of those services.

 

[maire23]

Not strictly true!

Here on the borders of Leicestershire and Warwickshire ( nearly the centre of the UK ) we have been fortunate to have seen only the merest of whispers of snow that has settled.

From what you’ve said I’m not that far away from you, and it’s been absolutely treacherous in my village!

 

[infobleep]

What happens if a passengers sees a train running and decided to go for it and it turns out someone forgot to cancel the train out of the system?

I don't know if someone forgot to cancel some trains out of the system but I reported three trains to South Western Railway Twitter team that I suspected either where not running or in the car of one train had already run but was still showing at one station summery board as on time long after it should have left.

Tonight I reported the 18:23 Waterloo to Basingstoke wasn't cancelled but the inbound service terminated at Woking. This was some time after it should have left. It was then cancelled.

The 19:45 Waterloo to Portsmourhs and Southsea was also on time before 19:45 and National Rail Enquiries said it had left Haslmere at that point before it did.

Now the last train to Portsmouth was advertised online as the 18:00 but only once they knew what services would be runing. So if someone handed for the 19:45, bearing in mind services were being stopped from 20:00 according to initial advice, would the train company be liable to get them anywhere?

The other train I noticed was the 17:02 Waterloo to Guildford. It said no report against each stop but for Guildford it said arrived on time. Im guessing it didn't run.

Can't have been am easy day. I saw some sparks flying. They are on my tablet so I'll share one or two later perhaps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think an airline is required to provide a hotel if it's weather related disruption (outside their control).

No, but airports are typically warmer and safer places to wait than many railway stations in cold weather.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't think an airline is required to provide a hotel if it's weather related disruption (outside their control).

That’s not correct. You’re conflating the duty to provide care, accommodation and subsistence with the duty to pay compensation under EC261.

An airline may legitimately decline to pay compensation under that regulation if the delay or cancellation was caused by a factor outside the airline’s control.

An airline must however *always* provide overnight accommodation, care and subsistence regardless of the cause of the delay.

 

[83G/84D]

Cross Country hoping to run more services today including west from Birmingham to Bristol and beyond.