Bromley boy
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St Pancras = St Patricks
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BucksBones
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Thanks for that. If you genuinely find that sort of lame pun funny I’m not sure I’d want to have a pint with you either.
I just like railways to get me to where I want to go, and information systems to tell me what I need to know. Don’t see what’s wrong with that really.
I just like railways to get me to where I want to go, and information systems to tell me what I need to know. Don’t see what’s wrong with that really.
BucksBones
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Agreed, a bit of fun can make everybody’s day; like you, I don’t think this particular instance was appropriate.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
There's nothing wrong with that, but equally there's nothing wrong with the odd bit wee of humour such as this. If worst came to worst, staff members I'm sure could reassure passengers that the train was going where they wanted to go.
Bromley boy
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What was the pun? I was simply being sarcastic.
Ye gods. I especially don’t want to go for a pint with you after reading that.
Harbornite
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Surely it can't be that difficult to research where you are going before you go? Are you suggesting that foreign users don't bother doing this?
BucksBones
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I bet you’re a barrel of laughs, down the pub.
The original pun; you know, the one the thread was supposed to be about.
Right.
As I say, all for humour but I think this was misconceived, that’s all.
I’m out.
Bromley boy
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berneyarms
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I doubt that there’d by too many first time in the country rail users at Ashford International at 07:43 on a Saturday morning?
Mintona
Established Member
But that’s the whole point. Of course they’ve done their research, and they know they’re looking for a train going to St Pancras. But the departure screen doesn’t display such a train, it displays a train to a similar sounding, but crucially different, destination.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Well, if people are heading to St Pancras they’d be looking for a train heading to St Pancras. Wouldn’t they?
I was in Switzerland the other week and took the train to Lausanne. I knew I needed to take a train advertised as heading for Lausanne. If the screens said the train was going to Lozane because of some in-joke that Swiss people get but I wouldn’t, I would have been pretty confused. I actually don’t know that Lozane isn’t a place. After all, Lugano and Locarno are totally different real places.
They wouldn’t try a gag like this with Heathrow Airport, would they?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
You’re assuming this was done for one train. It wasn’t. It was an all-day gag across their network.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
I really don't think anyone (or certainly not more than a tiny handful of people) will have been so confused by the pun that it'll have made navigating the railway impossible. The Irish diaspora (and the popularity of St. Paddy's Day in general) is global. Most Western and Central European cities of significance have at least one Irish pub, and the Guinness marketing machine has been astonishingly successful in getting the word out.
Of course, the usual suspects of both liberal and conservative shades have had their say on here. I'm not sure the Islamophobia is called for, but neither is the stuffy nay-saying about how TOCs should just concentrate on running trains. The unofficial name-change is just a bit of fun that most likely won't have any real-world negatives... BUT:
At the end of the day, it's just not a very funny joke- It's lame and cringey just like the Guinness hats and green t-shirts with stuff like "Kiss me, I'm Irish"* on them. TOCs generally aren't very popular and ham-fisted PR stunts like this are bound to rub some people up the wrong way. If there'd been any major disruption (which as we know can happen on any day) it could have backfired spectacularly.
*= in my experience, wearers of said shirts generally aren't Irish, of course!
Of course, the usual suspects of both liberal and conservative shades have had their say on here. I'm not sure the Islamophobia is called for, but neither is the stuffy nay-saying about how TOCs should just concentrate on running trains. The unofficial name-change is just a bit of fun that most likely won't have any real-world negatives... BUT:
At the end of the day, it's just not a very funny joke- It's lame and cringey just like the Guinness hats and green t-shirts with stuff like "Kiss me, I'm Irish"* on them. TOCs generally aren't very popular and ham-fisted PR stunts like this are bound to rub some people up the wrong way. If there'd been any major disruption (which as we know can happen on any day) it could have backfired spectacularly.
*= in my experience, wearers of said shirts generally aren't Irish, of course!
Yeah, but you could go out tomorrow and get run over by a car.
Unelss there's a large amount of complaints, I wouldn't worry about what "could" happen. The likelihood is pretty low... so low that it's not worth thinking about.
If pepole don't think it's okay, tell the TOC...
It's just an example of the railways becoming less corporate and trying to be more fun. I mean, let's face it, they're the bain of some peoples lives, so why shouldn't the company try and become the persons friend instead of sticking to, what is fast becoming old fashioned corporatism?
Within 10 years, I expect "office wear" at many offices will become obsolete. Already happens in many call centres and other offices - people just wear what they want to make the environment a bit better.
Perhaps it's just a generation thing. When the older people are all retired and the younger people are in, they won't care so much about this sort of thing.
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berneyarms
Established Member
Well I was looking at the photo at the top of the thread.
To be fair it would still only be the parts of the network served by HS1 services and not the entire network - I’m sure if someone were confused they could ask a member of staff. I still can’t imagine vast quantities of first time rail users making a trip on HS1 on a Saturday from the deepest SE.
While I can see both sides, getting as worked up about this as you seem to be is a little OTT to be honest.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
It's not getting worked up; I'm trying to explain to people that customer information screens are there to be trusted, and you shouldn't replace station names.
1) It's not funny, it's a total "meh" - and there are definitely much better ways for TOCs to mark St Patrick's Day then by messing with information screens.
2) You can, I think, get away with messages on the screens like "Merry Christmas", or the joke "Santa Express" service that runs to the North Pole every Christmas.
3) You can't however go around replacing station names with phrases that could easily be misconstrued by those unfamiliar with the network as another place or station.
I'm not saying "don't have fun", but it's really important to realise things like:
a) Many foreigners come from countries where wordplay is just not even a factor in their humour, due to the construction of their native language.
b) A lot of people unfamiliar with the network will have done responsible things like research the name of the station, and write it down exactly. They may also have a first language that is not English. Where they have made the effort to do this, responsibly, their journey shouldn't be made harder or more confusing.
c) This isn't renaming Wolverhampton to Wolverine (another daft stunt which wasn't novel or funny), this is renaming Britain's busiest international rail terminus. That's the station in Britain which has the most non-native speakers passing through it, with the exception of maybe the Heathrow Stations. I don't think you'd find Heathrow Airport messing about with the name of their station for a joke. I wonder why that might be?
There's a huge number of opportunities to have a bit of fun on the railway, but this particular example isn't how to go about it. Keep the information screens factual, especially when referring to St Pancras.
I don't think my point is difficult to grasp.
berneyarms
Established Member
I still can’t imagine vast numbers people are using SE HS services to access the International element of St Pancras which seems to be one of your main arguments?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I didn't mention anything about "vast" numbers of people.
Not a single person should be inconvenienced or confused for the sake of a bad joke (and it's not even a joke really).
If you're a TOC and want to mark St Patrick's day, say "Happy St Patrick's Day" on the screens, or have staff announce it, or signage, or a special offer, or have a little gag on the website in an appropriate place, or whatever. Just don't muck about with screens. People expect them to be accurate.
CaptainHaddock
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Just be thankful that on Shrove Tuesday they chose to rename St Pancras as St Pancake rather than change King's Cross to King's Toss!
Alteran Ancient
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The train's on-board displays would have advertised St Pancras. The (majority) of passengers would get the reference and staff would also know - there are plenty of other ways to validate where the train is going if you aren't able to understand or comprehend wordplay in the English language.
This is why we can't have nice things.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I agree that the vast majority of passengers would get the reference. This is not in doubt.
You can have nice things. I outlined a myriad of ways you can celebrate St Patrick's day upthread without altering the name of Britain's principal international railhead and one of our busiest stations for non-native English speakers.
It's a point of principle. The passenger information screens are there to direct passengers and it's fundamentally important they always display the correct information.
If I was a duty controller and an information controller asked me if they could rename St Pancras to St Patrick's, I'd say "hmm, no, but that's a nice idea though - can we do something else maybe, to mark the occasion?"
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Agreed. This would cause confusion and is a bad idea specifically *because* of the international connection. It would probably throw me for a minute as, as others have said, it is a viable station name and not totally ridiculous.
Furthermore, the PIS should really say "London St Pancras", only on Tube and LO (i.e. services running wholly within the London conurbation) should we be using just "St Pancras", "Euston" etc. Indeed, if they'd put "London St Patricks" that would have been slightly less confusing.
hexagon789
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True, it may be confusing and London St Patrick's may have made it less so, but it's only for one day of the year anyway.
xotGD
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I would be more interested if we had trains running to St Andrews than St Patrick.
And perhaps Dinsdale station could be renamed Middleton St George especially on the 23rd of April?
And perhaps Dinsdale station could be renamed Middleton St George especially on the 23rd of April?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
At least that one is vaguely funny!
adrock1976
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Thinking about this thread, would both the Automobile Association and London Underground had renamed the former GPO building and tube station respectively from St Paul's to St Patrick's on the 17 March?
Spartacus
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For me there's too many confused punters out there already, getting on the wrong train, pressing the wrong button in the loo, not being able to find the handle (loo or carriage door) to start introducing extra things. There are dozens of Saint locations on the railways, from St Pancras to St Keyne, and a few of them are even duplicated like St Margarets, so whether it's St Paddy's day or not it's a chance of confusion too much, it's far too much like a possibly real station name. Many people simply wouldn't ask around for confirmation from staff or other passengers. They've got their itinerary printed off and they'd see the train wasn't advertised on displays to the station their train was going to, and so would simply avoid it. "So what if you miss your train you've booked your advance on and have to pay through the nose for a new ticket, it's a joke for one day only!" 
In a not too dissimilar fashion, wasn't it not long ago that passengers started passing their stations due to the contractor's name being displayed during works and the passengers were mistaking it for their station name? Not all were unfamiliar with the station they were going to either, and certainly not all, if any, were foreign visitors, but for long enough to miss their stop, just once, they thought there was (I think) a Huntington station.
In a not too dissimilar fashion, wasn't it not long ago that passengers started passing their stations due to the contractor's name being displayed during works and the passengers were mistaking it for their station name? Not all were unfamiliar with the station they were going to either, and certainly not all, if any, were foreign visitors, but for long enough to miss their stop, just once, they thought there was (I think) a Huntington station.
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Alteran Ancient
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You wouldn't be wrong about confused punters. The number of people I've spotted waiting to board the rear four coaches when the departure board explicitly indicates "front 4 only" makes me realise how little people pay attention to finer details, or use a bit of common sense to overcome an obstacle. As they say in Men in Black, "A person is smart. People are dumb..."For me there's too many confused punters out there already, getting on the wrong train, pressing the wrong button in the loo, not being able to find the handle (loo or carriage door) to start introducing extra things. There are dozens of Saint locations on the railways, from St Pancras to St Keyne, and a few of them are even duplicated like St Margarets, so whether it's St Paddy's day or not it's a chance of confusion too much, it's far too much like a possibly real station name. Many people simply wouldn't ask around for confirmation from staff or other passengers. They've got their itinerary printed off and they'd see the train wasn't advertised on displays to the station their train was going to, and so would simply avoid it. "So what if you miss your train you've booked your advance on and have to pay through the nose for a new ticket, it's a joke for one day only!"
In a not too dissimilar fashion, wasn't it not long ago that passengers started passing their stations due to the contractor's name being displayed during works and the passengers were mistaking it for their station name? Not all were unfamiliar with the station they were going to either, and certainly not all, if any, were foreign visitors, but for long enough to miss their stop, just once, they thought there was (I think) a Huntington station.
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
I would also like to see St Andrews re-connected.
nottsnurse
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Given this was in a thread (this thread) about a TOC located in England I'd have thought that it was pretty clear I wasn't talking about "Ireland or elsewhere". There are also other clues, such as my login name (nottsnurse, 'notts' = Nottinghamshire and 'nurse'...err...Nurse) and that I refer to extra admissions to the Intensive Care Unit I work on (clue, it might be in the East Midlands of England).
For avoidance of doubt though, my comments regarding St Patrick's Day are specific to the UK-version, not the of "Ireland or elsewhere.
Interestingly I managed to have a quick look at the ICNARC (Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre) stats*, regarding admissions on the jolly old 17th March into the early hours of the 18th. I'm sure you'd be shocked to know that 'ETOH' (relating to consumed alcohol) is by far the most common reason for admission on those dates, going back as far as the records available show.
(*Sadly these are the 'pure' stats that are not generally accessible to the public, otherwise I'd post a link.)
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