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Peel Group's suggestion for rail link from ECML to Doncaster Sheffield Airport

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matacaster

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As its about an airport, does anyone think this idea will fly?



https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/our...nlock-yorkshire-airport-s-potential-1-9075372

With the longest runway in Yorkshire at nearly 3,000 metres long and a huge 1,600-acre site in which to expand, bosses at Doncaster Sheffield Airport consider it uniquely positioned to grow in the coming years.

Though more than 1.2 million people came through its doors last year, the airport on what used to be RAF Finningley has the capacity to handle as many as 25 million people annually and 250,000 tonnes of cargo.

A new rail-link is key to unlocking the potential of Robin Hood Airport. And according to a vision document published today and seen by The Yorkshire Post, the key to unlocking this potential could be delivered both quickly and at relatively low cost.

An airport station connected to the East Coast Mainline could be built by 2025, turning the site into a major international gateway for passengers and freight for the areas east of the Pennines and north and east of London, as well as putting itself in reach of nine million people within 90 minutes by public transport. Its price-tag of £280m, which includes a contingency for unexpected circumstances, pales in comparison with the billions of pounds being spent on major infrastructure projects such as HS2 and Crossrail in London.

Crucially, it’s a prospect that would transform the economy of the local area, the North and arguably even the country as a whole, providing much-needed aviation capacity at a time when the proposed expansion of Heathrow is proving slow and hugely controversial. ADVERTISING The vision document, launched this afternoon, sets out how a link to the East Coast Mainline between London and Scotland can be the “transformational change” which realises the airport’s unmet potential. Robert Hough, chairman of Peel Airports, which owns Doncaster Sheffield Airport (DSA), describes it as being in the “foothills of opportunity” as it bids to become the UK’s “most outstanding regional airport”. It sits a few miles from the M18 and A1(M), with the Great Yorkshire Way link road connecting it to the motorway due to be finished in May.

The vision document shows six trains per hour arriving at the station directly from the East Coast Mainline and regional services, with other services coming via Doncaster Central Station.

Part of the grand plan is the station link acting as the catalyst for the creation of an ‘aerotropolis’, a new form of city where an airport is integrated into a cluster of manufacturing, aviation and logistics bases, as well as housing, retail, hotels and leisure. Amsterdam Schiphol and Dallas-Forth Worth in the US are among the best known examples of this type of settlement, though the more immediate comparisons for Doncaster Sheffield are Dublin and Edmonton in Canada.

And in South Yorkshire, it will bring in more high-skilled, high-paid jobs with competitive, internationally-focused companies in the vicinity of the airport, with 1,000 homes already having been built there in recent months. Local, regional and business support is key if the scheme is to get off the ground......
 
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johnnychips

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What it didn’t say in the excerpt was that there are plans for 8500 houses. Bet they get built before any rail link!
 

Kettledrum

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.....and we've seen with East Midlands Parkway that airport stations are not necessarily the best investment
 

Elecman

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Well I’m sure Mr Grayling and the Treasury will be happy if the Airport developers pay the trifling £280 million as another 3rd Party enhancement scheme
 

xotGD

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With an express service from King's Cross they could market the airport as 'London Robin Hood'.

Presumably they would just be looking at a local service to Doncaster and Sheffield.
 

Ploughman

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In its previous life as RAF Finningley a temporary station used to be built for the annual air show.
I think it was sited on the Doncaster - Lincoln line.
I am not suggesting that this location is the one that should be used but is the Lincoln line suitable for this role or would a dedicated new line be required?
 

eastdyke

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From the article:
The vision document shows six trains per hour arriving at the station directly from the East Coast Mainline and regional services, with other services coming via Doncaster Central Station.
That implies quite a terminal station requirement and would need a very good chunk of that £280 million. :)
And that's apart from the origin station of all of those services.
 

johnnychips

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They are proposing a triangular junction near Auckley on the Doncaster to Lincoln line with a new commuter station on it. From the junction the line would link up to a station at the airport, then run on to join the ECML just north of Bawtry. There are no plans to reinstate the old station at Finningley, which I think may have been pressed into service during the Air Show.

In that way you could divert trains from the ECML via the airport to rejoin it before Doncaster. As there is a grade separation this would actually be easier than running trains from Sheffield to the airport, as these would have to traverse the ECML in Doncaster station.

All pie in the sky anyway!
 

tbtc

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All pie in the sky anyway!

Most things with Peel can be filed under "pie in the sky" - they are great at glossy presentations that give the impressions of huge potential, just as long as local government pay hundreds of millions of pounds to enable it.

It never seems to be Peel putting their fingers in their pockets though...

They are great at buying infrastructure and then sitting back and waiting for other people to do the hard work, like a corporate cuckoo.

As for the proposals... would have been a great idea once upon a time - one large airport by the ECML and M18/A1(M) could have been a regional powerhouse, rather than spreading resources over Leeds Bradford/ Humberside/ East Midlands/ Doncaster Sheffield etc. But, stating the bleeding obvious, we are where we are. It's too late to try to replace existing airports (however unsuitable Leeds Bradford is, up in the hills, at the mercy of bad Yorkshire weather, far away from any dual carriageways/ train stations etc).

It looks like an excuse to build thousands of houses on Peel land, with some greenwashing and some buzzwords about "a new form of city", just as long as someone else stumps up the hundreds of millions of pounds (and not Peel shareholders).

It's not about attracting late numbers of people from London/ Leeds etc to their Airport, it's about people in Peel houses having fast train links *to* London/ Leeds etc, which will make the houses nice and expensive.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I've seen Doncaster Sheffield Airport, former RAF Finningly, and Robin Hood Airport mentioned in the quote from the local rag.

Are the reporters, the local residents, or Peel Group for that matter appear to have an identity crisis of some sort and cannot decide on what to call it?
 
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Class 170101

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Well I’m sure Mr Grayling and the Treasury will be happy if the Airport developers pay the trifling £280 million as another 3rd Party enhancement scheme

If its a viable scheme it may be worthwhile. However I doubt £280m will be the final figure if it was constructed. Also the airport wouldn't do much for the 8500 homes. I and I suspect others wouldn't want to live near it.

The other thing to point out is that Heathrow's 3rd Runway is unlikely to get through the House of Commons this side of 2022 with a vote after that and construction receding even further into the future after all the court challenges. If Doncaster Airport to London is under two hours or could be further reduced with a link to HS1 somehow it may be a politically easier option to sell than Heathrow.
 

eastdyke

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I've seen Doncaster Sheffield Airport, former RAF Winningly, and Robin Hood Airport mentioned in the quote from the local rag.
Are the reporters, the local residents, or Peel Group for that matter appear to have an identity crisis of some sort and cannot decide on what to call it?
The locals call it RAF Finningley, the nearby councils call it Robin Hood Airport but those with National/Regional aspirations (Peel) want it to be known as Doncaster/Sheffield. Finningley was in Nottinghamshire until 1974.
IMO for a nationally significant airport simply Yorkshire Airport would be better but I guess that would need to survive howls of derision/protest from Leeds/Bradford and might need to wait until it has higher passenger numbers.
Perhaps just South Yorkshire pro tem?
 

47802

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Hmm and for who ever is running the EC franchise by then how many services would they be interested in diverting to this Airport, surely a slightly more realistic option would be to just run a spur off the Doncaster-Lincoln line and just run a regular service to Doncaster and some to Lincoln
 

Bald Rick

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The locals call it RAF Finningley, the nearby councils call it Robin Hood Airport but those with National/Regional aspirations (Peel) want it to be known as Doncaster/Sheffield. Finningley was in Nottinghamshire until 1974.
IMO for a nationally significant airport simply Yorkshire Airport would be better but I guess that would need to survive howls of derision/protest from Leeds/Bradford and might need to wait until it has higher passenger numbers.
Perhaps just South Yorkshire pro tem?

Flying Yorkshire Air? Alan Bennett Class?
 

MarkyT

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If its a viable scheme it may be worthwhile. However I doubt £280m will be the final figure if it was constructed. Also the airport wouldn't do much for the 8500 homes. I and I suspect others wouldn't want to live near it.

The other thing to point out is that Heathrow's 3rd Runway is unlikely to get through the House of Commons this side of 2022 with a vote after that and construction receding even further into the future after all the court challenges. If Doncaster Airport to London is under two hours or could be further reduced with a link to HS1 somehow it may be a politically easier option to sell than Heathrow.

I assume you mean HS2, but regardless, 'London' airport expansion over 130 miles north of London makes no sense to me. Under 2 hours maybe, but that compares with 15 minutes Paddington to Heathrow, and how much would this Yorkshire trek cost? There must be better alternatives for accommodating growth than Finningley if Heathrow's 3rd runway falls through, obviously...
 

Raul_Duke

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The locals call it RAF Finningley, the nearby councils call it Robin Hood Airport but those with National/Regional aspirations (Peel) want it to be known as Doncaster/Sheffield. Finningley was in Nottinghamshire until 1974.
IMO for a nationally significant airport simply Yorkshire Airport would be better but I guess that would need to survive howls of derision/protest from Leeds/Bradford and might need to wait until it has higher passenger numbers.
Perhaps just South Yorkshire pro tem?


Definitely “Yorkshire Airport”

 

snowball

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I've seen Doncaster Sheffield Airport, former RAF Winningly, and Robin Hood Airport mentioned in the quote from the local rag.
Is Winningly your typo or one you're quoting?

The airport largely stopped calling itself Robin Hood some time ago.
 

Bald Rick

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I assume you mean HS2, but regardless, 'London' airport expansion over 130 miles north of London makes no sense to me. Under 2 hours maybe, but that compares with 15 minutes Paddington to Heathrow, and how much would this Yorkshire trek cost? There must be better alternatives for accommodating growth than Finningley if Heathrow's 3rd runway falls through, obviously...

Interestingly, some London airports are quietly concerned about Birmingham airport though. In 8 years it will be about 45 minutes from Euston, and less from Old Oak, with tons of cheap seats on HS2 for sale off peak. Depending whereabouts in London you are starting from, it could look quite attractive, certainly compared to Stansted.
 

MarkyT

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Hmm and for who ever is running the EC franchise by then how many services would they be interested in diverting to this Airport, surely a slightly more realistic option would be to just run a spur off the Doncaster-Lincoln line and just run a regular service to Doncaster and some to Lincoln

My solution:
1. New station near Finningley or Auckley, also serving as local railhead for surrounding area to commute into Doncaster/Sheffield
2. Much better service frequency out to Gainsborough/Lincoln, all stopping at new station(s). Possibility of one or more additional new intermediate stations en route to Gainsborough
3. Trains to and from Lincoln line to use flyover at Decoy to cross fast lines and run on down side into a bay at south end of Doncaster station for reversal to and from Sheffield
3. High frequency shuttle pod system from new station to main airport terminal possibly also serving expanded airport parking on peripheral sites
 

Andrewh32

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In common with alot of Airports of similar size a quick viewing of the departures and arrivals board shows that daytime demand is minimal given that the majority of flights are either early or late. The airport does get a number of flights from Eastern Europe which arrive & depart late evening which is when the airport is at its busiest, and in common with other airports Holiday flights which leave early morning.

With the current timetable on the ECML it is safe to say that neither early nor late flights will be catered for for example you won't get a service from London arriving at this new airport at 4am to allow you time to board any early departing Holiday flight.

Therefore to me it makes sense to put the station on the Lincoln line and arrange a specific timetable of relatively local services to cater for the periods of demand ie early and late which would need to be in addition to current local services which currently aren't scheduled to run at those times of day, leaving existing services on the Lincoln line to mop up what little daytime demand that exists.
 

Tracked

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In its previous life as RAF Finningley a temporary station used to be built for the annual air show.
I think it was sited on the Doncaster - Lincoln line.
I am not suggesting that this location is the one that should be used but is the Lincoln line suitable for this role or would a dedicated new line be required?

Yes, it was on the Doncaster-Lincoln line, but I doubt it would be useful as there's quite a bit of a walk to the airport terminal - for the airshow it was a walk through a residential area to the runway. Finningley station is at the other side of the runway to the terminal so would be quite a journey round from it present position, and still quite a way at the nearest point.

I don't think the line's that busy, irregular EM services to Lincoln and some freight, though I'm not sure how easy a branch off from it to somewhere nearer the terminal would be.
 

Bantamzen

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This idea comes up with monotonous regularity, see Skyscraper City forums (often talked about on both the Sheffield & Leeds subforums:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=57

So the short answer to your question, no it won't. The long one is that there is nowhere near enough traffic through Doncaster airport to even start to warrant a business case being raised, and that having some form of ECML diversion or parkway station would be way too expensive. There isn't even that much local traffic passing on the Lincoln line, so there's really no case for it at all.

Most things with Peel can be filed under "pie in the sky" - they are great at glossy presentations that give the impressions of huge potential, just as long as local government pay hundreds of millions of pounds to enable it.

It never seems to be Peel putting their fingers in their pockets though...

They are great at buying infrastructure and then sitting back and waiting for other people to do the hard work, like a corporate cuckoo.

As for the proposals... would have been a great idea once upon a time - one large airport by the ECML and M18/A1(M) could have been a regional powerhouse, rather than spreading resources over Leeds Bradford/ Humberside/ East Midlands/ Doncaster Sheffield etc. But, stating the bleeding obvious, we are where we are. It's too late to try to replace existing airports (however unsuitable Leeds Bradford is, up in the hills, at the mercy of bad Yorkshire weather, far away from any dual carriageways/ train stations etc).

It looks like an excuse to build thousands of houses on Peel land, with some greenwashing and some buzzwords about "a new form of city", just as long as someone else stumps up the hundreds of millions of pounds (and not Peel shareholders).

It's not about attracting late numbers of people from London/ Leeds etc to their Airport, it's about people in Peel houses having fast train links *to* London/ Leeds etc, which will make the houses nice and expensive.

I agree with the last statement there, but as a regular user of the "unsuitable" airport at LBA I would point out that it is considerably busier than Doncaster, has considerable expansion plans as last year (2017) it had it's busiest year ever, there are plans to get at least a dual carriage way to there from Leeds & the motorways, and even possibly a parkway station already being looked at. Its also worth noting that although the runway alignment isn't ideal, the weather is nothing like the factor it is made out to be (and living close enough to see flights taking off / landing from R32 I can verify that it takes some quite serious conditions before it sees really bad disruption) and even has a better rate punctuality and lower percentage of cancellations than some other airports in the area.

So its not as unsuitable as some would have us believe. (And yes, I am slightly bias as it is only 15 minutes away in a taxi or a bit longer on the Flying Tiger 737. But nonetheless the facts are what they are.)

In common with alot of Airports of similar size a quick viewing of the departures and arrivals board shows that daytime demand is minimal given that the majority of flights are either early or late. The airport does get a number of flights from Eastern Europe which arrive & depart late evening which is when the airport is at its busiest, and in common with other airports Holiday flights which leave early morning.

With the current timetable on the ECML it is safe to say that neither early nor late flights will be catered for for example you won't get a service from London arriving at this new airport at 4am to allow you time to board any early departing Holiday flight.

Therefore to me it makes sense to put the station on the Lincoln line and arrange a specific timetable of relatively local services to cater for the periods of demand ie early and late which would need to be in addition to current local services which currently aren't scheduled to run at those times of day, leaving existing services on the Lincoln line to mop up what little daytime demand that exists.

As above that line doesn't have anything like enough services, or demand to consider putting the station on the line. Plus as also stated Doncaster doesn't yet have anything like the traffic to justify having it, especially as the station would be a considerable distance away from the terminal building. Think Tees Airport!
 

IanXC

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Even as a station/spur on the existing line there is scope to extend services from Doncaster (such as the Leeds-Doncaster stopper with electrification), from Sheffield (such as the future Sheffield-Retford stopper by way of a chord at Gainsborough), or services from Lincoln (such as extending the Leicester-Lincoln service). Of course the Doncaster to Lincoln service is also likely to increase in frequency in the next EM franchise.

That would still be a decent connectivity set for a regional airport without this pie in the sky ''divert the ECML" idea.
 

pemma

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Note the 'Northern Hub' budget was set at £500m, then increased to £600m when electrification schemes were added on to it. How can an airport which isn't even the biggest in Yorkshire justify a £280m rail link?
 

johnnychips

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Note the 'Northern Hub' budget was set at £500m, then increased to £600m when electrification schemes were added on to it. How can an airport which isn't even the biggest in Yorkshire justify a £280m rail link?

It can't, and I use and support DSA. TBTC's post #10 hits the nail on the head.
 

DimTim

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I wondered when a proposal to get rid of the level crossing in Rossington would be put forward!
 
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