MatthewRead
On Moderation
While I was trainspotting on the WCML I was thinking about HST's on the West Coast Main line how long were they running out of Euston for?
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HST's on West Coast Main Line
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
Until about 2002/3. First services I think were early '80s. The 221s and Class 57-hauled Pendolinos replaced them on Holyhead workings.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
I thought it was 2004 when they last ran.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Near enough 
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
I can't remember exactly when HSTs first appeared on pure WCML workings but early 1980s seems too early to me. My first trip on such a working wasn't until 1995 but I suspect they would have started around the time that loco-changes at Euston were being eliminated. The Mark 3 DVTs were introduced from 1988 so I would suggest sometime after that.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Done a bit of digging and it seems the first InterCity 125 Euston - Holyhead services were in 1987. Prior to that service were generally 86+Mk2 air-con to Crewe and 47/4 from there.
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
Thanks for solving that little mystery!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Shame I can't find the exact date though, that annoys me a bit. I can also say, however, that Euston-Holyhead loco-hauled continued well into the DVT-era, Mk2f and Mk3 sets were used on Summer Saturday workings certainly in the early 90s. It seems that Mk1s were used on some reliefs until the early 90 as well.
Helvellyn
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Where did you find that info? The LHCS services continued until 1991 when two Laira based Great Western sets (LA22 and LA27) were allocated to sub-sector IWCW for the North Wales services. By the start of 1994 there were three Laira based sets (sub-sector IWCX) for the North Wales services (LA12, LA17 and LA31 - the latter had been formed up of spare vehicles).
The availability of sets for the North Wales services only came about because of the East Coast electrification and subsequent cascade of the majority of the ECML HST fleet to Great Western, Midland Main Line and CrossCountry. West Coast then funded two (later three) sets for the North Wales sets but they were initially maintained at Laira.
HSTs did appear on the WCML in the mid-1980s on a limited number CrossCountry services from the South West to Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly. They appeared in greater numbers after the ECML cascade when Cragentinny had an allocation of sets that started working the likes of the Cornish Scot (Glasgow Central - Penzance), Devon Scot (Aberdeen - Plymouth via WCML) and Wessex Scot (Glasgow Central - Poole). As an aside, the Sussex Scot (Glasgow or Edinburgh to Brighton) never went over to HST operation.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Citytransportinfo has a YouTube video of one near Kenton taken in 1992!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
D'you know I can't remember.
I can't see to find the source either. I could quite easily be wrong, I don't know off the top of my head and am relying completely on a source being correct (not Wikipedia please note) 
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Don't think so.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
Actually they did work Euston- Manchester services, off the top of my head there was definitely an early evening working Mondays to Saturdays.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Interesting, never knew that. I was going off photos and videos in saying that it never seemed to occur, or at least not in a regular basis.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
I just can't recall the exact year I'm guessing 1999-2000 (ish) I travelled back from Euston to Stockport one Saturday on one, I think it may have dep. Euston around 19:00 or so, think it was a means to get them back to Longsight after working Euston-Holyhead services. Twas an odd feeling travelling on an HST down the West Coast I must say.
Just to add, on the weekday trains we used to offload mail from the van area in the powercars, what a hot noisy and fume filled hell hole it was in there.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Makes sense if it was essentially for getting back to depot.
I can imagine it feeling strange and it's something that's unlikely to be repeated, sadly.
43096
On Moderation
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Quite a few myths and incorrect statements cropping up here!
A quick overview of West Coast HSTs:
1991 - first proper West Coast HST services. Used sets made spare by East Coast electrification which were added to the Western Region pool. Although some sets/power cars were allocated to IWC_ pools this was purely for cost allocation/accountancy purposes. Sets were taken from the WR allocation and worked over from Old Oak to Euston to form a Holyhead service. They would stay for a couple of days, then swap over again, so any WR set could be used.
1994 - in the run up to privatisation the decision was taken to give West Coast three dedicated sets (sets 12, 17, 31 as above) with 7 power cars (43028/029/041/042/164-166), all reallocated to Longsight. It was at this point that Euston-Manchester trains were added to diagrams to get sets back to Manchester for maintenance.
Post 1997, the Virgin XC and Virgin WC power car fleet was pooled to give efficiency gains. Blackpool services were also added during this time for a while.
1998 - power car fleet swap with Great Western with 43028/041/042/164/165 being swapped for 43006-008/178/184. This was a result of GWT wanting an all-ATP fitted HST fleet post Southall. The West Coast power cars were so fitted, but the five transferred in were not.
2001 - power car swap of 43029 for 43104 (overhauled ex-store); connected with additional requirement on FGW as insurance replacement for 43011.
22 May 2004 - last West Coast HST operation: 43092/097 working 1H23 2010 Euston-Manchester as the final working.
A quick overview of West Coast HSTs:
1991 - first proper West Coast HST services. Used sets made spare by East Coast electrification which were added to the Western Region pool. Although some sets/power cars were allocated to IWC_ pools this was purely for cost allocation/accountancy purposes. Sets were taken from the WR allocation and worked over from Old Oak to Euston to form a Holyhead service. They would stay for a couple of days, then swap over again, so any WR set could be used.
1994 - in the run up to privatisation the decision was taken to give West Coast three dedicated sets (sets 12, 17, 31 as above) with 7 power cars (43028/029/041/042/164-166), all reallocated to Longsight. It was at this point that Euston-Manchester trains were added to diagrams to get sets back to Manchester for maintenance.
Post 1997, the Virgin XC and Virgin WC power car fleet was pooled to give efficiency gains. Blackpool services were also added during this time for a while.
1998 - power car fleet swap with Great Western with 43028/041/042/164/165 being swapped for 43006-008/178/184. This was a result of GWT wanting an all-ATP fitted HST fleet post Southall. The West Coast power cars were so fitted, but the five transferred in were not.
2001 - power car swap of 43029 for 43104 (overhauled ex-store); connected with additional requirement on FGW as insurance replacement for 43011.
22 May 2004 - last West Coast HST operation: 43092/097 working 1H23 2010 Euston-Manchester as the final working.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Thank you for the detailed post. I read on another forum that it was 1987 but wasn't sure myself, so it was actually 1991 and full service from 1994.
plannerman
Member
Dave Sallery's excellent site reckons HST's were running in North Wales from Sep 1991 until 22 May 2004. Some good pictures too - I've never seen the 'unofficial' livery variation on the bottom pic, are there any other pics of it anywhere?
http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/eighteen.htm
http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/eighteen.htm
Ploughman
Established Member
Seeing that they were built at Crewe, there must be some photos of them working around there on test around 1975.
I have got some shots of them being assembled at an open day.
I have got some shots of them being assembled at an open day.
Helvellyn
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Locomotives ex-overhaul from Crewe would frequently do a test run on the North Wales route piloting the booked loco. But I've a funny feeling that early HST power car tests (two back-to-back) ran to Shrewsbury.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Towards the end, they were the worst-riding HSTs on the network, even at 110mph max on the WCML.
They had a habit of bouncing repeatedly on the WCML track of the day (later pretty much replaced).
Voyagers were a significant upgrade, despite their reputation.
They had a habit of bouncing repeatedly on the WCML track of the day (later pretty much replaced).
Voyagers were a significant upgrade, despite their reputation.
Indeed they did, it was the 19.00ish VT HST I used to catch out of Euston (as per your post below).
It called at Stoke and Stockport only.
Also I think it followed another service by about 10 mins, hence it was never packed.
In fact I used sit on it whilst the other service was waiting to leave (rammed jammed full!)
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The 221s ride quite well and certainly the VTWC 221s are the best of the Voyager family in my opinion.
Helvellyn
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But VTWC originally got the last built 221s - 221141-221144 were built as four-car tilting units for the North Wales Coast services, with 220001-220034 and 221101-221140 all built first for VTXC.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
So that's why there were 4-car 221s. Amazing to think they went from 8 to 4-cars, what a nightmare it must have been capacity wise.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They have tended to run pairs to Chester with one going forward, as the Coast itself tends to be quite quiet. This method of operation continues today and is by and large not an issue.
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