Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

Journeyman · 20 Jun 2018

Bantamzen said:
What the general public & enthusiasts respond to are two very different things. The latter generally want a formal, more traditional image whereas a wider audience will respond to a more informal image. Its all just about marketing for the widest audience, which changes constantly from generation to generation. Whilst personally I'm not one to necessarily chose a Virgin brand over another based purely on marketing, at the same time it would not put me off still using VTWC, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin media etc.

Understood - I'm talking with my regular punter hat on here, and I appreciate that completely trumps what enthusiasts generally want (which is often highly unrealistic in a modern business environment). I'm a relatively cheerful and generally highly informal, progressive, tolerant person in my mid-40s, so I'm hardly an old git or a stickler for traditionalism. I like a relaxed, informal environment, but Virgin's comms, marketing and attitude come across as shrill, brash, loud, immature and completely without substance, which I find massively annoying. Trying to make everything funny just doesn't work, and I find it makes otherwise relaxing journeys quite stressful. I know I'm not alone in that, I've met plenty of people who agree. Quite apart from anything else, they brag about how great they are, despite regularly failing to deliver what they promise, and being extremely mean when you complain about it. That's what really bugs me.

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66Yorks · 20 Jun 2018

LNER signage being put up at York today.

Bantamzen · 20 Jun 2018

Journeyman said:
Understood - I'm talking with my regular punter hat on here, and I appreciate that completely trumps what enthusiasts generally want (which is often highly unrealistic in a modern business environment). I'm a relatively cheerful and generally highly informal, progressive, tolerant person in my mid-40s, so I'm hardly an old git or a stickler for traditionalism. I like a relaxed, informal environment, but Virgin's comms, marketing and attitude come across as shrill, brash, loud, immature and completely without substance, which I find massively annoying. Trying to make everything funny just doesn't work, and I find it makes otherwise relaxing journeys quite stressful. I know I'm not alone in that, I've met plenty of people who agree. Quite apart from anything else, they brag about how great they are, despite regularly failing to deliver what they promise, and being extremely mean when you complain about it. That's what really bugs me.

I'll be honest, I'm one of the lucky few

that's never had course to complain about Virgin train services, as I've never really had bad experience with them that could be blamed purely on them. Even when I've had the odd issue with my broadband, they've generally responded quickly & resolved any issues. So I won't comment on that side of things. But from a marketing point of view they, as an overall brand, do get people's attention & that is what counts. They have such a high profile that it was their name, not the main protagonist Stagecoach that went on the side of the VTECs despite Virgin group having just 10% stake in the franchise.

Of course this will mean a potential loss of credibility for the brand, however by a stroke of luck GTR / Northern / FTE / Scotrail have all stepped in with their own problems which has at least distracted the public gaze long enough to allow the launch of LNER to almost go under the radar. So Virgin may well walk away from this slightly scarred but not terminally damaged. So I think the brash, loud image of the group's brand will continue for some time, so you may wish to invest in some quality noise cancelling headphones!

bengley · 20 Jun 2018

Not photoshopped.

Clip · 20 Jun 2018

bengley said:
Not photoshopped.

smart that

gtis · 20 Jun 2018

Seen this on Twitter

skyhigh · 20 Jun 2018

gtis said:
Seen this on Twitter

That looks edited to me - the logo is more blurred that the rest of the photo.

SaveECRewards · 20 Jun 2018

I saw an LNER ad playing on one of the video screens at Canary Wharf yesterday (presumably still there). It's nice to see the brand being publicised before launch.

gtis · 20 Jun 2018

skyhigh said:
That looks edited to me - the logo is more blurred that the rest of the photo.

Could be right
What about apple green like the flying scotchman
Or the blue used on the mallard
Neil

91109 · 20 Jun 2018

The picture of the 91 with the LNER logo is definitely fake.

omnicity4659 · 20 Jun 2018

91109 said:
The picture of the 91 with the LNER logo is as fake as the Facebook page which posted it. Incidentally that page no longer exists...

Was literally just about to mention those two fake pages (they had a VTEC one too), they disappeared when I was pointing out how fake they were to someone else, funnily enough...

AnonymousUser1 · 20 Jun 2018

red is the one colour that LNER and predecessors didn't routinely use as a body colour for locos ... although some GCR coaching stock was Claret and NER coaching stock 'plum' or 'crimson lake'

bengley · 20 Jun 2018

91109 said:
The picture of the 91 with the LNER logo is definitely fake.

Bash Mash certainly does still exist.

omnicity4659 · 20 Jun 2018

bengley said:
Bash Mash certainly does still exist.

There were two pages ran by someone, there was a London North Eastern Railway page (/LondonNorthEastern) and a Virgin Trains East Coast page (/VirginEastCoast), which were receiving quite a lot of attention. To the untrained eye, they could have been seen as real.

The image of the 91 with the LNER logo was posted on the fake LNER page.

bengley · 20 Jun 2018

Ah I see, thanks.

jon0844 · 20 Jun 2018

91109 said:
I can confirm that the booking confirmation will no longer say 'Wayhey you're all booked' and will now say 'You're booked and ready to go'.

Can hopes and dreams, or goldfish, be flushed down the toilets from next week?

Harbornite · 20 Jun 2018

bengley said:
Not photoshopped.

Me likey.

SaveECRewards · 20 Jun 2018

Well... crappy marketing continues I see...

DenmarkRail · 20 Jun 2018

SaveECRewards said:
Well... crappy marketing continues I see...
View attachment 48573

\

Given, as far as I'm aware, there are no changes to the marketing and design teams, therefore it'll be similar marketing, just with a new logo.

SaveECRewards · 20 Jun 2018

DenmarkRail said:
\

Given, as far as I'm aware, there are no changes to the marketing and design teams, therefore it'll be similar marketing, just with a new logo.

How often do they fail to hit the mark? LNWCR? London North West Coast Railway was what first sprung to mind. Then after looking at it a bit longer it became apparent that NWC was supposed to be an abbreviation for Newcastle. I've never seen anyone use NWC as short for Newcastle. NCL is common (the station code, airport code and university use it).

Perhaps if they used NEW as short for Newcastle it would have worked in two ways. LNEWR highlighting it's a new company as well as Newcastle.

Then if you get into the text it says LNER is your new London to Newcastle railway. Do they think people from Newcastle will only use it for London it seems like an awful confusing mess from the beginning.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2018

SaveECRewards said:
How often do they fail to hit the mark? LNWCR? London North West Coast Railway was what first sprung to mind. Then after looking at it a bit longer it became apparent that NWC was supposed to be an abbreviation for Newcastle. I've never seen anyone use NWC as short for Newcastle. NCL is common (the station code, airport code and university use it).

Perhaps if they used NEW as short for Newcastle it would have worked in two ways. LNEWR highlighting it's a new company as well as Newcastle.

Then if you get into the text it says LNER is your new London to Newcastle railway. Do they think people from Newcastle will only use it for London it seems like an awful confusing mess from the beginning.

This is why I am surprised they branded it LNER the government are trying to convey the image they are not london centric. Yet have included the name London in a railway that for 80% of its route it outside London

mmh · 20 Jun 2018

I "like" how those posters are on a hoarding signed "information", yet give no information.

Put something useful there, a timetable or even a simple plain explanation that VTEC is being replaced by LNER but nothing else changes.

Advertising TOC brands for the sake of it at railway stations is completely pointless.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2018

mmh said:
I "like" how those posters are on a hoarding signed "information", yet give no information.

Put something useful there, a timetable or even a simple plain explanation that VTEC is being replaced by LNER but nothing else changes.

Advertising TOC brands for the sake of it at railway stations is completely pointless.

The poster is informing the public that existing vtectickets will be valid on lner that seems like information to me

Hadders · 20 Jun 2018

TVMs at Edinburgh now showing LNER onbthe home page.

DenmarkRail · 20 Jun 2018

SaveECRewards said:
How often do they fail to hit the mark? LNWCR? London North West Coast Railway was what first sprung to mind. Then after looking at it a bit longer it became apparent that NWC was supposed to be an abbreviation for Newcastle. I've never seen anyone use NWC as short for Newcastle. NCL is common (the station code, airport code and university use it).

Perhaps if they used NEW as short for Newcastle it would have worked in two ways. LNEWR highlighting it's a new company as well as Newcastle.

Then if you get into the text it says LNER is your new London to Newcastle railway. Do they think people from Newcastle will only use it for London it seems like an awful confusing mess from the beginning.

Yeah. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just suggesting that I can't see that there will be many changes to the way they market. I'll be happily proved wrong though

matt_world2004 said:
This is why I am surprised they branded it LNER the government are trying to convey the image they are not london centric. Yet have included the name London in a railway that for 80% of its route it outside London

London is the central hub for the company though... What you infer is similar to saying BA should change their name, because 50% of they're flights don't originate in the UK...

SaveECRewards · 20 Jun 2018

DenmarkRail said:
Yeah. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just suggesting that I can't see that there will be many changes to the way they market. I'll be happily proved wrong though

The style of the new ads is nice, as was (IMO) Bound for Glory, but Spandau and the graffiti posters plastered all over the stations were just annoying.

This ad I described as crappy because it just seemed to try and be clever but wasn't. No one uses NWC for Newcastle, they might as well have made a joke about a pint of newkie brown while they were at it (no one from Newcastle would call it that).

The how often do they fail to hit the mark was me referring to the number of ad campaigns they had to change last year. Spandau v Speedcore became Spandau v Thrash Metal when it was pointed out that associating your competitors with speed probably wasn't the desired outcome. They changed a lot of wording on their posters too.

It's early days. I mentioned liking Bound for Glory. I didn't hate all the VTEC marketing team did but sometimes they do fail to hit the mark.

DenmarkRail said:
London is the central hub for the company though... What you infer is similar to saying BA should change their name, because 50% of they're flights don't originate in the UK...

On airline forums you often hear people saying they should be called London Airways. I think LNER was a suitable name because of the history of it. If the name didn't have history I'd have hoped for something more inclusive as Scotland isn't mentioned.

matt_world2004 · 20 Jun 2018

DenmarkRail said:
London is the central hub for the company though... What you infer is similar to saying BA should change their name, because 50% of they're flights don't originate in the UK...

Because the government have been criticised for being too London centric particularly on the issue of transport , this seems like a spectacular own goal on that issue.

DenmarkRail · 20 Jun 2018

SaveECRewards said:
On airline forums you often hear people saying they should be called London Airways. I think LNER was a suitable name because of the history of it. If the name didn't have history I'd have hoped for something more inclusive as Scotland isn't mentioned.

ECSR would have been nice... A new name, that sounds historical. East Coast & Scottish Railway

LNW-GW Joint · 20 Jun 2018

The original LNER was a merger of several large railways (GN, GE, GC, NE, NB, GNoS, WHR etc).
The new LNER is only a fraction of the scope of the old.

SaveECRewards · 20 Jun 2018

DenmarkRail said:
ECSR would have been nice... A new name, that sounds historical. East Coast & Scottish Railway

I like that one.

I'm hoping that the VTEC team will build a good reputation for LNER as although it's the same team they'll not have the high premiums to pay the government so should be able to sort out the basics like maintenance and staffing.

But if they screw up the government could always go for a fresh start with yet another brand!

Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

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